Tattoo discrimination to be illegal?

[Miguel Alvarez]

Einion Yrth said:

paranoid airbag said:

I am asking exactly the question I am asking. No more and no less. I am not trying to sucker you into agreeing with me on anything. I would like to know:

If the choice was between life on the dole, meaning major lifestyle choices, and a job for which you weren't wanted, which would you choose?

Why does this need explaining so many times?

Why does it need asking at all?

Thank you Einion.

Well Paranoid your question is like asking which would I prefer. Death by Mau Mau or Death by Unicorn feet.

It's a pointless question that has no relation to the real world.

Is that clear enough for you?

[paranoid airbag]

Fair enough, it's clear you don't want to answer for whatever reason.

The closest explanation, I expect, is that you think it weakens whatever point you're making.

Which says to me it isn't very strong at all but hey ho.

[Harry H]

I'll answer the bloody question then.

I'd take the job every time. Never been unemployed myself, it must be absolutely dire. Really not that fussed as to how well or not I get on with my colleagues. I'm there to work it's not a social club.

I also imagine getting another job is sooo much easier when employed than unemployed as well.

[Miguel Alvarez]

paranoid airbag said:

Fair enough, it's clear you don't want to answer for whatever reason.

The closest explanation, I expect, is that you think it weakens whatever point you're making.

Which says to me it isn't very strong at all but hey ho.

You my friend are quite clearly mad. It must be nice in your imaginary world.

ETA

I was going to leave it there but I'm quite insulted that you seem to be implying that I need someone to give me a hand up onto the corporate ladder or to look out for me because I was born with a slightly darker than white skin tone. In my humble "ethnic" opinion it's people pandering and making constant excuses along with lowering of standards that is holding black people back and by the sounds of it you seem to be one of those people doing just that no matter how good you think your intentions may be.

If you want to treat me as an equal then fine. If you want to lower the bar for me to jump over you and your bar can fk off as far as I'm concerned.

Edited by Miguel Alvarez on Wednesday 20th August 14:01

[Atmospheric]

Miguel

I think his point is that you aren't going to be liked everywhere and from my experience as a "black professional" means there may or may not be a fair chunk of this. Point is, you're not always going to be liked and if work is just exactly that - work.

Given the choice, I'd rather work at a place where they do not favour me and swallow my pride that go on the dole.

Not everyone will like you - in fact not everyone likes everyone - but that's their problem not yours!

I suppose it's a choice of achieving your goals by biting the bullet from time to time or...not.

[paranoid airbag]

Harry H said:

I'll answer the bloody question then.

I'd take the job every time. Never been unemployed myself, it must be absolutely dire. Really not that fussed as to how well or not I get on with my colleagues. I'm there to work it's not a social club.

I also imagine getting another job is sooo much easier when employed than unemployed as well.

Me too, fairly similar reasons. At the same time, some people are just more committed to morals than me - if they have a problem maybe they would rather live in comparative poverty.

I think there are some companies I might choose comparative poverty over working for, but I'm not sure. Clearly, my line is further out than "immediate manager is a racist".

What's so hard about that ?

[Miguel Alvarez]

Atmospheric said:

Miguel

I think his point is that you aren't going to be liked everywhere and from my experience as a "black professional" means there may or may not be a fair chunk of this. Point is, you're not always going to be liked and if work is just exactly that - work.

Given the choice, I'd rather work at a place where they do not favour me and swallow my pride that go on the dole.

Not everyone will like you - in fact not everyone likes everyone - but that's their problem not yours!

I suppose it's a choice of achieving your goals by biting the bullet from time to time or...not.

I understand his point. As dumb as it is. I also understand not everyone likes me. I sometimes don't like me.

Buttttttt back in the real world. I can and would just go work for someone who does like me. No need to join the dole no need to pass go no need to collect £200.

Work is not just work. I spend 40 hours a week there. I want to enjoy my time as much as I can within the requirements of the job. I don't stress if I'm not getting on with an employer. I just move on.

[Atmospheric]

Miguel Alvarez said:

Atmospheric said:

Miguel

I think his point is that you aren't going to be liked everywhere and from my experience as a "black professional" means there may or may not be a fair chunk of this. Point is, you're not always going to be liked and if work is just exactly that - work.

Given the choice, I'd rather work at a place where they do not favour me and swallow my pride that go on the dole.

Not everyone will like you - in fact not everyone likes everyone - but that's their problem not yours!

I suppose it's a choice of achieving your goals by biting the bullet from time to time or...not.

I understand his point. As dumb as it is. I also understand not everyone likes me. I sometimes don't like me.

Buttttttt back in the real world. I can and would just go work for someone who does like me. No need to join the dole no need to pass go no need to collect £200.

Work is not just work. I spend 40 hours a week there. I want to enjoy my time as much as I can within the requirements of the job. I don't stress if I'm not getting on with an employer. I just move on.

I suppose it depends on how you view work itself and how you carry this out. I contract, so it matters more about what you can achieve "deliver", although personality and likeability matters more as time goes on.

However, to me work is a means to bring things into my life to enhance it and enrich my experience, and I very much view work as a tool for that. "Enjoying" work becomes less important that the "Result" of your work IME. Enjoying it is a bonus.

[JensenA]

paranoid airbag said:

Fair enough, it's clear you don't want to answer for whatever reason.

The closest explanation, I expect, is that you think it weakens whatever point you're making.

Which says to me it isn't very strong at all but hey ho.

FFS Paranoid Airbag - an apt screen name by the way - I completely understand what Miguel is saying, and unless you are very thick, so do you. You are simply labouring a hypothetical point. Miguel is saying that he'd rather not have a job somewhere where he was not liked/not appreciated/resented (choose whatever one you like), and so far in his life always managed to get a job elsewhere. In your hypothetical world, if some supreme power said to Miguel "if you turn this job down' I will use my supreme powers to enforce you to spend the rest of your life struggling on the dole, your family will starve, and you will become miserable and possibly suicidal - make your choice Miguel". I'm pretty confident Miguel would say "Oh, alright then, I'll take it".

[Miguel Alvarez]

Atmospheric said:

I suppose it depends on how you view work itself and how you carry this out. I contract, so it matters more about what you can achieve "deliver", although personality and being likeable matters.

However, to me work is a means to bring things into my life to enhance it and enrich my experience, and I very much view work as a tool for that. "Enjoying" work becomes less important that the "Result" of your work IME. Enjoying it is a bonus.

I agree with that to a point. I'm not doing a "for the love" job but I still maintain I'd rather have fun with the people I work with than be sat there scowling at people or having them scowling at me.

I'll admit defeat if you're goal in life is to be the prime minister, then yes you probably need to bite your tongue. But as I just want a nice job that pays me well, uses my brain and is a friendly place to work. I'm happy and can afford to be choosier in where I work.

And just to clarify I don't turn up to work or interviews with big headphones a gold chain and baseball cap saying "yo" every 5 minutes. I'd like to consider myself to be well presented when the time calls for it.

To me it's no different to dating. Why waste your one life being around someone who you hate and hates you back when you can be with someone you love. There isn't one woman in the world and there isn't one employer either.

[jeff m2]

Gone a bit off track, I was almost expecting the next post to ask if tattoo parlours stocked white ink!

Back to tattoos....
If someone renders themselves unemployable by deliberately getting tattoos that are impossible to hide, should their benefits continue?

I'm not anti tattoo, if someone wants a butterfly on their arse I don't see a problem.

There of course some whose positive skills outweigh any negativity associated with tattoos and would not be affected.

I do have concerns that a visible tattoo gives someone a benefits pass for life. Not good.
I don't see how any legislation is going to rectify that.

[mybrainhurts]

I concur. I detest the bloody things. They look like a disease from a distance. Why should I be forced to employ someone and have to look at gross disfigurement and bad taste, day in, day out?

It's like being forced to hang pottery ducks on the walls of your office.

I shall now retire to my concrete bunker...

[paranoid airbag]

JensenA said:

FFS Paranoid Airbag - an apt screen name by the way - I completely understand what Miguel is saying, and unless you are very thick, so do you. You are simply labouring a hypothetical point. Miguel is saying that he'd rather not have a job somewhere where he was not liked/not appreciated/resented (choose whatever one you like), and so far in his life always managed to get a job elsewhere. In your hypothetical world, if some supreme power said to Miguel "if you turn this job down' I will use my supreme powers to enforce you to spend the rest of your life struggling on the dole, your family will starve, and you will become miserable and possibly suicidal - make your choice Miguel". I'm pretty confident Miguel would say "Oh, alright then, I'll take it".

I was labouring it because he was being evasive.

Possibly because, if the answer was "yes", we'd have established it is sometimes worth trading ideals for money.
At that point, it merely becomes a question of how much money. A 10% lower paying job? 20%? 50%? Clearly the choice would have to involve some pay cut - otherwise, if you were acting rationally, you wouldn't be at the lower-paying job in the first place, thus no dilemma exists.

But I won't know, because he won't answer.

Edited by paranoid airbag on Saturday 23 August 00:36

[pcvdriver]

jeff m2 said:

Gone a bit off track, I was almost expecting the next post to ask if tattoo parlours stocked white ink!

Back to tattoos....
If someone renders themselves unemployable by deliberately getting tattoos that are impossible to hide, should their benefits continue?

I'm not anti tattoo, if someone wants a butterfly on their arse I don't see a problem.

There of course some whose positive skills outweigh any negativity associated with tattoos and would not be affected.

I do have concerns that a visible tattoo gives someone a benefits pass for life. Not good.
I don't see how any legislation is going to rectify that.

It has to be remembered - A tattoo is for life not just for Christmas, just like a puppy, although you can't eat a tattoo......and a puppy's got to last till boxing day at least [/joke]. On a more serious note, why should someone on benefits have them removed for not dressing in what might be deemed as conventional attire........and before the usual disciples start popping veins, No I do not dress myself in such a fashion, although one New Year I did sport a green mohawk for the evening.....which caused some odd looks on the way home from a party that night.....

[pcvdriver]

When I first left college I joined the civil service. I worked for Land Registers of Scotland, and The Keeper of the Register's daughter also worked there. She had dyed jet black hair back-combed enough to make Mark Smith of The Cure's hair seem like a traditional blokes haircut. It didn't seem to do her career prospects any harm at all......

[Miguel Alvarez]

paranoid airbag said:

he won't answer.

Edited by paranoid airbag on Saturday 23 August 00:36

You know what they say about a broken clock......

You're right I won't be answering.

[pork911]

jeff m2 said:

There of course some whose positive skills outweigh any negativity associated with tattoos and would not be affected.

if 'hasn't got any tattos' is the best someone can say about their 'skill set' they are already in trouble

[paranoid airbag]

Miguel Alvarez said:

You know what they say about a broken clock......

You're right I won't be answering.

So your position is hopelessly logical then, if it can be torn apart by a single question (why else wouldn't you answer?).

Good to know you should try politics.

[JensenA]

paranoid airbag said:

JensenA said:

FFS Paranoid Airbag - an apt screen name by the way - I completely understand what Miguel is saying, and unless you are very thick, so do you. You are simply labouring a hypothetical point. Miguel is saying that he'd rather not have a job somewhere where he was not liked/not appreciated/resented (choose whatever one you like), and so far in his life always managed to get a job elsewhere. In your hypothetical world, if some supreme power said to Miguel "if you turn this job down' I will use my supreme powers to enforce you to spend the rest of your life struggling on the dole, your family will starve, and you will become miserable and possibly suicidal - make your choice Miguel". I'm pretty confident Miguel would say "Oh, alright then, I'll take it".

I was labouring it because he was being evasive.

Possibly because, if the answer was "yes", we'd have established it is sometimes worth trading ideals for money.
At that point, it merely becomes a question of how much money. A 10% lower paying job? 20%? 50%? Clearly the choice would have to involve some pay cut - otherwise, if you were acting rationally, you wouldn't be at the lower-paying job in the first place, thus no dilemma exists.

But I won't know, because he won't answer.

Edited by paranoid airbag on Saturday 23 August 00:36

It's because you know that answer! The answer is ..............."yes, obviously!" You understand exactly the point he was making, you're being pedantic to the extreme and you know it

[Lost soul]

Miguel Alvarez said:

You my friend are quite clearly mad. It must be nice in your imaginary world.

ETA

I was going to leave it there but I'm quite insulted that you seem to be implying that I need someone to give me a hand up onto the corporate ladder or to look out for me because I was born with a slightly darker than white skin tone. In my humble "ethnic" opinion it's people pandering and making constant excuses along with lowering of standards that is holding black people back and by the sounds of it you seem to be one of those people doing just that no matter how good you think your intentions may be.

If you want to treat me as an equal then fine. If you want to lower the bar for me to jump over you and your bar can fk off as far as I'm concerned.

Edited by Miguel Alvarez on Wednesday 20th August 14:01