US journalist beheaded by ISIS...

[KareemK]

Why all the feckin' fuss about beheadings?

In 2012-13, our allies in Saudi Arabia cut the heads off 79 people.

Not a peep from anyone in the west. Can't think why.

26 in one month apparently and 1 was for 'sorcery' and 5 women were decapitated for 'witchcraft'.

Just one of many interesting articles that abound on the net: http://aattp.org/saudi-arabia-beheads-26-people-in...

Even the Free Syrian Army who we are arming to fight Assad like to behead you know. 6 in September alone.

Indeed, in the league of beheaders ISIS are mid-table at best, West Ham if you like.

Even American troops have done it, they decapitated a Japanese soldier in 1945 and propped his head on their tank for a picture. Troops did the same thing to an Iraqi soldier in 1991. But this time, Life magazine — which had declined to publish the World War II photo — put the new picture on its cover.

Anyway, source here: http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-zimmerm...

It's all about perspective I suppose.

Edited by KareemK on Monday 29th September 09:43

[TinyCappo]

Might have something to do withe lack of video threats against other countries...

Also in Saudi thats a punishment laid down by the state just as we could still hang people for treason, I know we have not for a long bloody time but its still a punishment capable of being used by the state.

[otolith]

TinyCappo said:

Also in Saudi thats a punishment laid down by the state just as we could still hang people for treason, I know we have not for a long bloody time but its still a punishment capable of being used by the state.

No it isn't. It was abolished in the Crime and Disorder Act 1998, the maximum penalty becoming life imprisonment.

[KareemK]

TinyCappo said:

Also in Saudi thats a punishment laid down by the state

Thats wrong actually. It's not a punishment "laid down by the state".

I quote:

Saudi Arabia has no codified system of crime and punishment the way we do, insofar as specific offenses warrant specific punishments.

The King of Saudi Arabia appoints state-sanctioned religious clerics to act as judges, and those judges are free to hand out any sentence they like for any crime they like, and are not bound by the presentation of evidence or burden of proof. In short, in Saudi Arabia, if a judge wants you dead, you’re dead. Guilty or innocent, you’re dead. Much as in our own Salem Witch Trials, the only “evidence” required is an accusation.

And even more to the point, a judge is free to not sentence you to death, or even imprisonment, even if you are rightfully convicted of something as egregious as murder. Saudi judges hold absolute power, and are accountable to no one but the King himself.

So if that King wants to send a message.

[TinyCappo]

otolith said:

TinyCappo said:

Also in Saudi thats a punishment laid down by the state just as we could still hang people for treason, I know we have not for a long bloody time but its still a punishment capable of being used by the state.

No it isn't. It was abolished in the Crime and Disorder Act 1998, the maximum penalty becoming life imprisonment.

Stand corrected Thought we still could.

KareemK said:

Thats wrong actually. It's not a punishment "laid down by the state".

I quote:

Saudi Arabia has no codified system of crime and punishment the way we do, insofar as specific offenses warrant specific punishments.

The King of Saudi Arabia appoints state-sanctioned religious clerics to act as judges, and those judges are free to hand out any sentence they like for any crime they like, and are not bound by the presentation of evidence or burden of proof. In short, in Saudi Arabia, if a judge wants you dead, you’re dead. Guilty or innocent, you’re dead. Much as in our own Salem Witch Trials, the only “evidence” required is an accusation.

And even more to the point, a judge is free to not sentence you to death, or even imprisonment, even if you are rightfully convicted of something as egregious as murder. Saudi judges hold absolute power, and are accountable to no one but the King himself.

So if that King wants to send a message.

True but he has sanctioned that these guys can dish out punishments that they see fit trusting in their judgement. He could have given them a framework to work within but hasn't, therefore it's state sanctioned. Its very different to ISIS beheadings on video sending messages to the west.

Edited by TinyCappo on Monday 29th September 11:23

[Mermaid]

U.S. misjudged rise of Islamic State, Obama says
In a “60 Minutes” interview, the president also acknowledged that the U.S. overestimated Iraq’s ability to fight the militant group, which on Sunday pounded a strategic Syrian town with artillery shells.


& what else?

[KareemK]

TinyCappo said:

True but he has sanctioned that these guys can dish out punishments that they see fit trusting in their judgement. He could have given them a framework to work within but hasn't, therefore it's state sanctioned. Its very different to ISIS beheadings on video sending messages to the west.

Actually, nit picking, but you could argue that Islamic STATE's beheadings are STATE sanctioned but Saudi's are just done on one mans whim.

Anyway, that's as may be, the point is disgust and indignation at the 'atrocity' or 'barbarism' of beheadings is a bit rich when you don't do likewise when its an allie or somebody you want something from (ie Oil). Yes ISIS are beyond the pale but then so are our friends in the region.

Once the Free Syrian Army overthrow Assad with our arms and money and start beheading their own citizens just watch us sit back and say nothing. They behead captured Assad soldiers already.

[Digga]

KareemK said:

TinyCappo said:

True but he has sanctioned that these guys can dish out punishments that they see fit trusting in their judgement. He could have given them a framework to work within but hasn't, therefore it's state sanctioned. Its very different to ISIS beheadings on video sending messages to the west.

Actually, nit picking, but you could argue that Islamic STATE's beheadings are STATE sanctioned but Saudi's are just done on one mans whim.

Anyway, that's as may be, the point is disgust and indignation at the 'atrocity' or 'barbarism' of beheadings is a bit rich when you don't do likewise when its an allie or somebody you want something from (ie Oil). Yes ISIS are beyond the pale but then so are our friends in the region.

Once the Free Syrian Army overthrow Assad with our arms and money and start beheading their own citizens just watch us sit back and say nothing. They behead captured Assad soldiers already.

Agreed. Which leads us back to what I believe is the crux of the matter; what exactly are we 'against'? Until we can define that, action is at best misguided and without strategy.

[King Herald]

KareemK said:

Thats wrong actually. It's not a punishment "laid down by the state".

I quote:

Saudi Arabia has no codified system of crime and punishment the way we do.....

You make it sound like Saudi has some written code of law that is adhered to without fail??



I've worked in that sthole of a dogs anus in the past, and never want to go back again.

[KareemK]

King Herald said:

KareemK said:

Thats wrong actually. It's not a punishment "laid down by the state".

I quote:

Saudi Arabia has no codified system of crime and punishment the way we do.....

You make it sound like Saudi has some written code of law that is adhered to without fail??



I've worked in that sthole of a dogs anus in the past, and never want to go back again.

Thats exactly what I'm not saying.

[Mr_B]

I like some of the home built specials being used. Looks a bit Dad's Army and Jones The Family ( Halal ) Butcher.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2773452/Th...

[King Herald]

KareemK said:

King Herald said:

KareemK said:

Thats wrong actually. It's not a punishment "laid down by the state".

I quote:

Saudi Arabia has no codified system of crime and punishment the way we do.....

You make it sound like Saudi has some written code of law that is adhered to without fail??



I've worked in that sthole of a dogs anus in the past, and never want to go back again.

Thats exactly what I'm not saying.

Sorry, I've imbibed a few tonight, may have missed your point.

[TinyCappo]

KareemK said:

TinyCappo said:

True but he has sanctioned that these guys can dish out punishments that they see fit trusting in their judgement. He could have given them a framework to work within but hasn't, therefore it's state sanctioned. Its very different to ISIS beheadings on video sending messages to the west.

Actually, nit picking, but you could argue that Islamic STATE's beheadings are STATE sanctioned but Saudi's are just done on one mans whim.

Anyway, that's as may be, the point is disgust and indignation at the 'atrocity' or 'barbarism' of beheadings is a bit rich when you don't do likewise when its an allie or somebody you want something from (ie Oil). Yes ISIS are beyond the pale but then so are our friends in the region.

Once the Free Syrian Army overthrow Assad with our arms and money and start beheading their own citizens just watch us sit back and say nothing. They behead captured Assad soldiers already.

Fair point well presented.

[Mr_B]

Not much chat on this, but some reports say ISIS fighters are just a few km from Baghdad's western city edge, yet the UK's token force of jets is yet to drop a bomb.

[Lost soul]

King Herald said:

I've worked in that sthole of a dogs anus in the past, and never want to go back again.

Happy time was it

[Mermaid]

Mr_B said:

Not much chat on this, but some reports say ISIS fighters are just a few km from Baghdad's western city edge, yet the UK's token force of jets is yet to drop a bomb.

They are waiting for IS to install themselves in Saddam's palaces - easier target.

[TheRealFingers99]

Mr_B said:

I like some of the home built specials being used. Looks a bit Dad's Army and Jones The Family ( Halal ) Butcher.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2773452/Th...

They do have a certain charm. However, they'd not have a chance in hell against the much more modern armour -- some of it with GPS guided guns -- which ISIS stole from the Iraqis and Syrians.

Seems we've pretty much left the Kurds blowing in the wind -- I did hear that the UK was sending a batch of Korean War era Browning .50 calibre machine guns(!).

[Lost soul]

TheRealFingers99 said:

Seems we've pretty much left the Kurds blowing in the wind -- I did hear that the UK was sending a batch of Korean War era Browning .50 calibre machine guns(!).

We should be ashamed of ourselves

[TheRealFingers99]

Mr_B said:

Not much chat on this, but some reports say ISIS fighters are just a few km from Baghdad's western city edge, yet the UK's token force of jets is yet to drop a bomb.

Bombed earlier today by the US.

First, ISIS seem to have become very aware that bigger aggregations of troops, armour, etc. provide very easy targets for aircraft.

Second, the guy on Sky today was suggesting that that may have been a diversion, to draw attention away from a possible break-through to the Turkish boarder (Suruc, Kobane, etc.) which will give them access to more arms, recruits, etc.

[Lost soul]

TheRealFingers99 said:

They do have a certain charm. However, they'd not have a chance in hell against the much more modern armour -- some of it with GPS guided guns -- which ISIS stole from the Iraqis and Syrians.

Pretty sure this sort of kit would be on top of the target list