US journalist beheaded by ISIS...
Discussion
firstly RIP James a sad loss of life all because ho chosee to show the world what was happening out there.
On a secind note its odd really this sort of thing you keep someone captive for best part of two years then execute them and post footage on line. Whats the objective, I mean do you think grusome acts will somehow make nations fall back in fear etc.
There are at least two nations in this world rightly or wrongly who no matter what the time frame seek to avange there citizens death. I say avenge rather than bring to justice as that's what tends to happen. In all the years of troubles in the middle east killing these countries citizens has never made them go away or sympathetic to your cause. Such an act will only lead to the loss of more lives. Execute one person and post the footage, result many drone striles, SF missions, air strikes on your own people. Just seems like a very poor statergy to me.
I can't recall how long it took for Israil to avenge the death of its athletes but I do know they never gave up, same with the hunt for Bin Laden. The death of this man will lead to many more deaths on the other side.
On a secind note its odd really this sort of thing you keep someone captive for best part of two years then execute them and post footage on line. Whats the objective, I mean do you think grusome acts will somehow make nations fall back in fear etc.
There are at least two nations in this world rightly or wrongly who no matter what the time frame seek to avange there citizens death. I say avenge rather than bring to justice as that's what tends to happen. In all the years of troubles in the middle east killing these countries citizens has never made them go away or sympathetic to your cause. Such an act will only lead to the loss of more lives. Execute one person and post the footage, result many drone striles, SF missions, air strikes on your own people. Just seems like a very poor statergy to me.
I can't recall how long it took for Israil to avenge the death of its athletes but I do know they never gave up, same with the hunt for Bin Laden. The death of this man will lead to many more deaths on the other side.
Ray Honeyford had it spot on back in the 1980s but it seems they were already in control of the council back then, just like what is going on in Birmigham right now with the 'compromise agreements'. According to Ms Kondal, ex head teacher at one Trojan school, it's been going on for 20 years.
zcacogp said:
Guam said:
One has to wonder how we are raising this Scum in what we believe to be a civilised society, its not just a one off unfortunately either, from earlier news reports it appears that our fellow Brits are wallowing in the blood and gore and seem proud of being barbarians.
The line they get radicalised by the internet is wearing a bit thin now, something is clearly wrong in an small subset of our communities for our children to grow into this kind of specimen imho!
We need to ascertain who or what is churning out these monsters.
Quoted, because it's 100% accurate. Spot on Guam. The line they get radicalised by the internet is wearing a bit thin now, something is clearly wrong in an small subset of our communities for our children to grow into this kind of specimen imho!
We need to ascertain who or what is churning out these monsters.
Oli.
zcacogp said:
Guam said:
One has to wonder how we are raising this Scum in what we believe to be a civilised society, its not just a one off unfortunately either, from earlier news reports it appears that our fellow Brits are wallowing in the blood and gore and seem proud of being barbarians.
The line they get radicalised by the internet is wearing a bit thin now, something is clearly wrong in an small subset of our communities for our children to grow into this kind of specimen imho!
We need to ascertain who or what is churning out these monsters.
Quoted, because it's 100% accurate. Spot on Guam. The line they get radicalised by the internet is wearing a bit thin now, something is clearly wrong in an small subset of our communities for our children to grow into this kind of specimen imho!
We need to ascertain who or what is churning out these monsters.
Oli.
It's a combination of a lack of opportunity for young people a widening rich/poor gap, a lack of morality from government and the police, UK foreign policy in the middle east, young people not feeling British, lack of community, lack of father figures, parents/family members/teachers not providing enough direction and support etc etc etc etc
Much like the UK 2011 riots really, British people joining ISIS, jihad or London gangs or looting and rioting etc are all the result of disenfranchised young people who are suddenly presented with an opportunity to channel their frustration and have a sense of belonging.
Qwert1e said:
How about,
Although none of those things were productive, if you want to understand these people you just have to listen to them. They are scriptural literalists who want to bring about the Muslim equivalent of the second coming. Very broadly speaking.- Imaginary weapons of mass destruction in Iraq
- Imaginary connections between Saddam Hussein and Al Quaeda
- The fragmentation of a major Middle eastern country, Iraq, by war and destruction with no viable end game
- Extraordinary rendition
- Institutionalised torture
- Guantanamo Bay
They are very clear on what motivates them. Despite the uncomfortable squirms of the moderates, these guys are dosed up on unfiltered, raw Islamic faith. They are westboro with guns and violent intent. They are an organised version of the new ultra violent Chinese Christian cults (google it). We can attack them with violence. But we can only cure them with reason. Although many are literally certifiable.
el stovey said:
...Much like the UK 2011 riots really, British people joining ISIS, jihad or London gangs or looting and rioting etc are all the result of disenfranchised young people who are suddenly presented with an opportunity to channel their frustration and have a sense of belonging.
& it is amazing not one of the 500 hundred or so had family/friends who did not suspect something and outed them. They are with them & against us.el stovey said:
I expect it's a combination of factors, many of which are unfortunately the UK government's fault.
It's a combination of a lack of opportunity for young people a widening rich/poor gap, a lack of morality from government and the police, UK foreign policy in the middle east, young people not feeling British, lack of community, lack of father figures, parents/family members/teachers not providing enough direction and support etc etc etc etc
Much like the UK 2011 riots really, British people joining ISIS, jihad or London gangs or looting and rioting etc are all the result of disenfranchised young people who are suddenly presented with an opportunity to channel their frustration and have a sense of belonging.
None of the things you blame are new. There have been, and are currently many examples in the world. But rarely if ever do they lead to the situation we see with Islamic State. Worth thinking about that.It's a combination of a lack of opportunity for young people a widening rich/poor gap, a lack of morality from government and the police, UK foreign policy in the middle east, young people not feeling British, lack of community, lack of father figures, parents/family members/teachers not providing enough direction and support etc etc etc etc
Much like the UK 2011 riots really, British people joining ISIS, jihad or London gangs or looting and rioting etc are all the result of disenfranchised young people who are suddenly presented with an opportunity to channel their frustration and have a sense of belonging.
It could be that all them members of IS had a really impressive induction process for all recruits? "Listen guys, we know it is all about the lack of opportunity and school milk etc... And the oppressive right wing proletariat. But we have to tell everyone we are motivated by religious hatred. All that medieval biblical stuff. Yes I know it sounds strange, but we have a good reason for the deception. One consistent message that we will all parrot perfectly from now on. Ok, got that? Good!"
Really? Really!?
technogogo said:
el stovey said:
I expect it's a combination of factors, many of which are unfortunately the UK government's fault.
It's a combination of a lack of opportunity for young people a widening rich/poor gap, a lack of morality from government and the police, UK foreign policy in the middle east, young people not feeling British, lack of community, lack of father figures, parents/family members/teachers not providing enough direction and support etc etc etc etc
Much like the UK 2011 riots really, British people joining ISIS, jihad or London gangs or looting and rioting etc are all the result of disenfranchised young people who are suddenly presented with an opportunity to channel their frustration and have a sense of belonging.
None of the things you blame are new. There have been, and are currently many examples in the world. But rarely if ever do they lead to the situation we see with Islamic State. Worth thinking about that.It's a combination of a lack of opportunity for young people a widening rich/poor gap, a lack of morality from government and the police, UK foreign policy in the middle east, young people not feeling British, lack of community, lack of father figures, parents/family members/teachers not providing enough direction and support etc etc etc etc
Much like the UK 2011 riots really, British people joining ISIS, jihad or London gangs or looting and rioting etc are all the result of disenfranchised young people who are suddenly presented with an opportunity to channel their frustration and have a sense of belonging.
In the middle east it's been caused by failure of the state, after we got rid of the dictators keeping order. Somewhere else, it might be war. In london or LA or wherever it might be rioting sparked by the shooting of a black youth and the failure of the state to keep control.
Mermaid said:
el stovey said:
...Much like the UK 2011 riots really, British people joining ISIS, jihad or London gangs or looting and rioting etc are all the result of disenfranchised young people who are suddenly presented with an opportunity to channel their frustration and have a sense of belonging.
& it is amazing not one of the 500 hundred or so had family/friends who did not suspect something and outed them. They are with them & against us.HoHoHo said:
I can't say I've seen in the press any high profile Muslim leaders suggesting this is a barbaric act, or for that matter make any comments at all.
I wonder why.......
I mentioned this in another thread but there was a piece on BBC News a few weeks back where one of their reporters (who'd been shot and paralysed whilst reporting somewhere once, I forget his name) was in a town centre talking to the public about ISIS. He interviewed one young Muslim and asked him "What are the Imam's saying to good muslims such as yourself about not going to fight this war?". The lad replied "they say that you should only go to fight if you genuinely believe in the cause". The reporter was about to continue speaking when what he'd just heard had sunk in, "they say you should fight?". "The lad replies "yes, but only if you believe in the cause, I don't". The awkwardness of it all would have been hilarious if not so horrifying as it was clearly not what he was expecting to hear. I wonder why.......
ETA: It was Frank Gardner on The One Show in Croydon
Edited by Oakey on Wednesday 20th August 10:11
el stovey said:
I expect it's a combination of factors, many of which are unfortunately the UK government's fault.
It's a combination of a lack of opportunity for young people a widening rich/poor gap, a lack of morality from government and the police, UK foreign policy in the middle east, young people not feeling British, lack of community, lack of father figures, parents/family members/teachers not providing enough direction and support etc etc etc etc
Much like the UK 2011 riots really, British people joining ISIS, jihad or London gangs or looting and rioting etc are all the result of disenfranchised young people who are suddenly presented with an opportunity to channel their frustration and have a sense of belonging.
Yeah. It's really tough being a young person these day innit?. It's a combination of a lack of opportunity for young people a widening rich/poor gap, a lack of morality from government and the police, UK foreign policy in the middle east, young people not feeling British, lack of community, lack of father figures, parents/family members/teachers not providing enough direction and support etc etc etc etc
Much like the UK 2011 riots really, British people joining ISIS, jihad or London gangs or looting and rioting etc are all the result of disenfranchised young people who are suddenly presented with an opportunity to channel their frustration and have a sense of belonging.
All that free state education, satellite TV, mobile phones, and games consoles bought with benefits.
Woe is me blud.
Think I'll cut some peoples' heads off.
d.HoHoHo said:
I can't say I've seen in the press any high profile Muslim leaders suggesting this is a barbaric act, or for that matter make any comments at all.
I wonder why.......
Why does one muslim have to apologise for the crime/atrocity of another so called muslim? I wonder why.......
Do you expect the Archbishop of Canterbury to apologise for every Loyalist crime/atrocity
Guam said:
audidoody said:
One can only hope GCHQ has done its job and got an identity from voice print matching.
Funny we were just discussing that at the office, if not I guarantee the NSA have done or are doing that right now, (yes yes I know the Derby facility isn't supposed to eavesdrop on our phone calls lol).May not make the papers but I'd advise against travelling in the same car as him under clear skys..
HoHoHo said:
I can't say I've seen in the press any high profile Muslim leaders suggesting this is a barbaric act, or for that matter make any comments at all.
I wonder why.......
To be fair there have been hundreds maybe thousands of people who have suffered an identical fate recently in Syria and Iraq. I wonder why.......
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