US journalist beheaded by ISIS...
Discussion
I remember when a few years ago when all this stuff was happening in Libya; our news reporters were out there following Britons who were fighting against the Gadaffi regime and treating them like heroes.
I am sure that there must be some people who went over to fight against the Assad regime, but have now been caught up in a very complex 3 or 4 way battle where sometimes they might not be sure as to exactly who they're fighting with/for. It looks all very disjointed over there to my untrained military eyes with many different factions fighting one another and sooner or later you're going to have to join the side that offers you most protection?
Now I'm not saying that everyone who goes over there is in the same situation - the majority probably knew they were going to go fight for ISIS/anti-West groups and they should be dealt with appropriately (whatever your definition of "appropriate.") However to automatically think British Muslim fighting in Middle East = ISIS member = Deserves Death is all a bit simplistic IMO.
I personally feel that no British citizen should be allowed to fight for another country/entity at all and if they do then they should have their citizenship revoked. Simple as that.
I am sure that there must be some people who went over to fight against the Assad regime, but have now been caught up in a very complex 3 or 4 way battle where sometimes they might not be sure as to exactly who they're fighting with/for. It looks all very disjointed over there to my untrained military eyes with many different factions fighting one another and sooner or later you're going to have to join the side that offers you most protection?
Now I'm not saying that everyone who goes over there is in the same situation - the majority probably knew they were going to go fight for ISIS/anti-West groups and they should be dealt with appropriately (whatever your definition of "appropriate.") However to automatically think British Muslim fighting in Middle East = ISIS member = Deserves Death is all a bit simplistic IMO.
I personally feel that no British citizen should be allowed to fight for another country/entity at all and if they do then they should have their citizenship revoked. Simple as that.
The one that didn't get away.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29786550
What possible use could a chemistry teacher be to ISIS? I doubt if he'd be turning base metals into gold, in order to finance this amoral murderous organisation?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29786550
What possible use could a chemistry teacher be to ISIS? I doubt if he'd be turning base metals into gold, in order to finance this amoral murderous organisation?
TheRealFingers99 said:
So where are the figures showing 25% of UK Muslims support ISIS?
That wasn't exactly what I was trying to prove, and you know it.You then go on to quote just a couple of those links as being insignificant, when there's a whole bunch of others backing-up what I'm trying to demonstrate, which is, that a frighteningly large proportion of the Muslim population, both here and abroad, are totally against what we in the west stand for.
But you knew that too, and elected to be picky.
Jimbeaux said:
TheRealFingers99 said:
Westy Pre-Lit said:
My heart bleeds for the poor little lambs,
I don't think anyone is asking for your heart to bleed. But Pre-Lit pretty much sums you up, don't you think? Not a brain cell or an original thought in your body. Are you going to let the GIs fighting for the Kurds back in the US?
An American Has Joined A Kurdish Militia To Fight ISIS In Syria — And His Friends Are Cheering Him On With Memes
3 Americans fighting alongside Kurds in Syria against ISIS, official says
Brian Wilson -- note the PKK flag in the background!
Cobnapint said:
That wasn't exactly what I was trying to prove, and you know it.
I know folk on Piston Heads think I'm psychic, but, as I've said before, I'm not. I can only respond to what you put in black and white. Cobnapint said:
You then go on to quote just a couple of those links as being insignificant, when there's a whole bunch of others backing-up what I'm trying to demonstrate, which is, that a frighteningly large proportion of the Muslim population, both here and abroad, are totally against what we in the west stand for.
So that's what you were trying to say! But you originally wrote something completely different. I'm not dismissing the links as insignificant -- they purely and simply do not reveal the surveys they're supposed to -- they cannot be followed to any useful purpose. This may be deliberate, or the result of incompetence, but if you cite a source, it has to be checkable. References 101.
When two point to known nutjobs, you've got to worry.
Cobnapint said:
TheRealFingers99 said:
Cobnapint said:
TheRealFingers99 said:
I think the "throughout the Muslim world" bit is telling. UK Muslims would be more appropriate, don't you think?
Same % I believe.You didn't read the last sentence?
TheRealFingers99 said:
I'd certainly agree that the results -- if properly composed questions were put -- are extremely alarming, but there's nowt there that backs up your second assertion.
Edited by TheRealFingers99 on Monday 27th October 14:39
Edited by TheRealFingers99 on Monday 27th October 14:41
Cobnapint said:
If you insist.
Copied from another topic:
ICM Poll: 20% of British Muslims sympathize with 7/7 bombers
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1510866/Pol...
<large list of depressing statistics>
Policy Exchange: 1 in 4 Muslims in the UK have never heard of the Holocaust;
Only 34% of British Muslims believe the Holocaust ever happened.
http://www.imaginate.uk.com/MCC01_SURVEY/Site%20Do...
http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/ShariaLawOrOneLawFor...
Could be all hot air though eh...?
Well, that's all very comforting.Copied from another topic:
ICM Poll: 20% of British Muslims sympathize with 7/7 bombers
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1510866/Pol...
<large list of depressing statistics>
Policy Exchange: 1 in 4 Muslims in the UK have never heard of the Holocaust;
Only 34% of British Muslims believe the Holocaust ever happened.
http://www.imaginate.uk.com/MCC01_SURVEY/Site%20Do...
http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/ShariaLawOrOneLawFor...
Could be all hot air though eh...?
Langweilig said:
The one that didn't get away.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29786550
What possible use could a chemistry teacher be to ISIS? I doubt if he'd be turning base metals into gold, in order to finance this amoral murderous organisation?
You didn't read the article. He says he wanted to fight against Assad, not for ISIS. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29786550
What possible use could a chemistry teacher be to ISIS? I doubt if he'd be turning base metals into gold, in order to finance this amoral murderous organisation?
The teacher is said to have become rapidly radicalised from living an ordinary Western lifestyle to becoming someone determined to fight in the Middle East, having changed his appearance and behaviour from August 2013.
Sharples School head teacher Rachel Quesnel told the Bolton News: "It came as a huge shock to be informed by the police that they had arrested a member of staff. We acted on the advice of the local authority and the police and suspended the individual."
Reading articles it seems to suggest his behaviour was changing as was his appearance before the suspension. The suspension being triggered by the Police investigation.
I wonder just how concerned the school were at the time
One good thing his family tried to stop him from going.
Sharples School head teacher Rachel Quesnel told the Bolton News: "It came as a huge shock to be informed by the police that they had arrested a member of staff. We acted on the advice of the local authority and the police and suspended the individual."
Reading articles it seems to suggest his behaviour was changing as was his appearance before the suspension. The suspension being triggered by the Police investigation.
I wonder just how concerned the school were at the time
One good thing his family tried to stop him from going.
TheRealFingers99 said:
Edited by TheRealFingers99 on Monday 27th October 14:39
Edited by TheRealFingers99 on Monday 27th October 14:41
But that wasn't good enough because then you say they have to be checkable. If you carry on like that, you're not going to be happy until I've posted actual video footage of me conducting each and every survey.
Wtf are you on? I'm just trying to demonstrate a simple point.
No, I didn't check every single link in minute detail, but the overall gist is there for all to see.
You seem to get some kind of kick out of being a holier than thou all encompassing voice of reason and all round clever dick that counters everything everybody says.
If you don't think there's a growing problem with Muslim extremism, then save us all the bother and just say so.
Cobnapint said:
If you don't think there's a growing problem with Muslim extremism, then save us all the bother and just say so.
There clearly is a rising problem but:1. How big is the problem in reality? How at risk are you and I or our familes?
2. What is fuelling the anti-west feeling? Muslims have been around for a long time living amicably with Christians and the West but only in the last half century has it turned REALLY sour. Any ideas? Anybody?
Cobnapint said:
There's no pleasing you. First I have to cite references. I did.
But that wasn't good enough because then you say they have to be checkable. If you carry on like that, you're not going to be happy until I've posted actual video footage of me conducting each and every survey.
How can a reference be a reference unless the link works? But that wasn't good enough because then you say they have to be checkable. If you carry on like that, you're not going to be happy until I've posted actual video footage of me conducting each and every survey.
It would be just like me writing a book and quoting page number from fictitious books by fictitious authors saying things I made up.
Cobnapint said:
Wtf are you on? I'm just trying to demonstrate a simple point.
No, I didn't check every single link in minute detail, but the overall gist is there for all to see.
The detail is just some statements -- they could be entirely fictitious. Every goddamn link I've tried is broken. They lead nowhere, or to nothing. No, I didn't check every single link in minute detail, but the overall gist is there for all to see.
Cobnapint said:
You seem to get some kind of kick out of being a holier than thou all encompassing voice of reason and all round clever dick that counters everything everybody says.
Given the general level of some of you twerps, it's not difficult.
But, again, my issue with you at the moment is that the links do not work. That's hardly my fault! Maybe they worked once upon a time -- just post a linke back to the place you copied and pasted them from. I'll take a look.
I just ran through most of them and found that:
a. About 5 or 6 actually worked. Yey!
b. On the face of it, they don't support what the poster claimed they support for the most part.
c. The rest either link to an organisation or a web site, but not to the place on that site they're supposed to link to.
Cobnapint said:
If you don't think there's a growing problem with Muslim extremism, then save us all the bother and just say so.
I genuinely don't know. I know there's a perceived problem, but........ (from a couple of the links which do work):Muslim Americans: No Signs of Growth in Alienation or Support for Extremism
Muslim Publics Share Concerns about Extremist Groups: Much Diminished Support for Suicide Bombing
Extremist groups Hamas and Hezbollah continue to receive mixed ratings from Muslim publics. However, opinions of al Qaeda and its leader, Osama bin Laden, are consistently negative; only in Nigeria do Muslims offer views that are, on balance, positive toward al Qaeda and bin Laden.
Edited by TheRealFingers99 on Tuesday 28th October 00:30
TheRealFingers99 said:
Jimbeaux said:
TheRealFingers99 said:
Westy Pre-Lit said:
My heart bleeds for the poor little lambs,
I don't think anyone is asking for your heart to bleed. But Pre-Lit pretty much sums you up, don't you think? Not a brain cell or an original thought in your body. Are you going to let the GIs fighting for the Kurds back in the US?
An American Has Joined A Kurdish Militia To Fight ISIS In Syria — And His Friends Are Cheering Him On With Memes
3 Americans fighting alongside Kurds in Syria against ISIS, official says
Brian Wilson -- note the PKK flag in the background!
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