US journalist beheaded by ISIS...

[Jimbeaux]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

That is true, however, ISIS has money, the cartels will take their money for a service, thinking that their market will still be safe.

[Jimbeaux]

Halmyre said:

Jimbeaux said:

Intel further indicates that ISIS is working with the Latin drug cartels to breech our southern border (this has long been suspected).

What?!? What pish is this? Are people really taking this guff seriously?

Before you see it as far fetched, understand that our porous southern border has long been a bridge for OTMs (other than Mexicans). Many criminals and those of varying interests other than simple immigration have been caught in the past using the border. With that history, why is this so impossible? If I would have told you 15 years ago that a British rapper was fighting for ISIS and beheading journalists, you would call that guff too I am sure.

[Countdown]

Jimbeaux said:

Countdown said:

Jimbeaux said:

That is my point. K speaks of a majority Muslim population one day voting in a caliphate, in essence, voting out Democracy, thus moving in a dark age direction.

I think the point isn't voting in a caliphate or sharia law or whatever. The point is either you have a democracy or you don't. So if the democracy says its ok to shoot grouse on 12th August it's fine. Just because you or I might not approve means nothing. Similarly if the population decides to elect a dictatorship it has the right to do so.

That's how democracies work. If you don't like it, leave.

If you vote in a dictatorship using democracy, you have then thrown out democracy. If they do that, then they don't have to leave.....you will.

And it's equally possible to throw out a dictatorship and instate democracy. The point I'm trying to make is - just because you or I don't like the laws that people choose doesn't make their choices any less legitimate. It sounds like you and others only want democracy when it suits. It doesn't work like that I'm afraid.

[Countdown]

Jimbeaux said:

audidoody said:

If you had any worries that we are being led by clueless, weak, and dangerously stupid politicians here is Yvette Cooper to put your mind at rest:

"Those returning from fighting in the Middle East should be forced to take part in compulsory de-radicalisation programmes even if they cannot be charged with a criminal offence".

I have no words.

Such weakness is sickening.

Yes. Even though they haven't committed a criminal offence they should still be punished.

[Jimbeaux]

So, Bary is a rapper from London. Someone yesterday on here was commenting on government-sponsored music studios in these communities.

[Jimbeaux]

Countdown said:

Jimbeaux said:

audidoody said:

If you had any worries that we are being led by clueless, weak, and dangerously stupid politicians here is Yvette Cooper to put your mind at rest:

"Those returning from fighting in the Middle East should be forced to take part in compulsory de-radicalisation programmes even if they cannot be charged with a criminal offence".

I have no words.

Such weakness is sickening.

Yes. Even though they haven't committed a criminal offence they should still be punished.

Returning from fighting for ISIS is not a criminal offense??? Have you lost your mind?

[ZX10R NIN]

Countdown said:

And it's equally possible to throw out a dictatorship and instate democracy. The point I'm trying to make is - just because you or I don't like the laws that people choose doesn't make their choices any less legitimate. It sounds like you and others only want democracy when it suits. It doesn't work like that I'm afraid.

Our Democracies helped to create Isis by supplying them with arms when we wanted them to over throw the Dictatorship that is Syria
now it's come back to bite us.

So hopefully we will finally learn to let other countries solve their own problems rather than trying to push our ideals on the rest of the world

[TheRealFingers99]

Jimbeaux said:

Returning from fighting for ISIS is not a criminal offense??? Have you lost your mind?

It may be offensive, but it isn't, AFAIK, a criminal offence. Anyway, "Those returning from fighting in the Middle East" would surely have to include a fair few US and UK Special Forces as well as Kurds returning to fight with the Peshmerga and the PKK.

[smegmore]

ZX10R NIN said:

now it's come back to bite us.

So hopefully we will finally learn to let other countries solve their own problems rather than trying to push our ideals on the rest of the world

Far too late to turn our backs and say 'let them get on with it, kill each other' etc, etc.

The genie's right out of the bottle now, the only way out of this for western countries is swift and totally ruthless action.

All the spouting of guff from spineless and mealy-mouthed politicians with immigrant-based constituencies means nothing here. The only solution is to eradicate these individuals and all who support them, harsh but necessary to prevent our towns and cities from turning into downtown Baghdad/Beirut etc (insert bombed-out city of choice here).

[Countdown]

Jimbeaux said:

Countdown said:

Jimbeaux said:

audidoody said:

If you had any worries that we are being led by clueless, weak, and dangerously stupid politicians here is Yvette Cooper to put your mind at rest:

"Those returning from fighting in the Middle East should be forced to take part in compulsory de-radicalisation programmes even if they cannot be charged with a criminal offence".

I have no words.

Such weakness is sickening.

Yes. Even though they haven't committed a criminal offence they should still be punished.

Returning from fighting for ISIS is not a criminal offense??? Have you lost your mind?

I'm not sure why you're having difficulties in reading or comprehending my post. Let me try again;

If something is not illegal then people who do it are not breaking the law.
If they are not breaking the law they cannot be charged with a criminal offence.
If they cannot be charged with a criminal offence they cannot be tried, or found guilty, or punished.
This is how most democratic law-abiding societies operate. It most certainly isn't a weakness.

What Yvette Cooper is saying is, IF (note the big letters) they can't be charged with a criminal offence, we should still try to show them the error of their ways.

Hope that clarifies.

[smegmore]

Countdown said:

I'm not sure why you're having difficulties in reading or comprehending my post. Let me try again;

If something is not illegal then people who do it are not breaking the law.
If they are not breaking the law they cannot be charged with a criminal offence.
If they cannot be charged with a criminal offence they cannot be tried, or found guilty, or punished.
This is how most democratic law-abiding societies operate. It most certainly isn't a weakness.

What Yvette Cooper is saying is, IF (note the big letters) they can't be charged with a criminal offence, we should still try to show them the error of their ways.

Hope that clarifies.

right on, brother.



edited to add the ironic smiley for you cd.

Edited by smegmore on Monday 25th August 01:06

[Jimbeaux]

TheRealFingers99 said:

Jimbeaux said:

Returning from fighting for ISIS is not a criminal offense??? Have you lost your mind?

It may be offensive, but it isn't, AFAIK, a criminal offence. Anyway, "Those returning from fighting in the Middle East" would surely have to include a fair few US and UK Special Forces as well as Kurds returning to fight with the Peshmerga and the PKK.

So, those fighting for ISIS, beheading children, etc should be allowed to pass back through customs to the US / UK and be given a hearty welcome home? To be clear, I am not speaking of "anyone" returning from fighting in the ME, I am speaking of those specifically fighting for ISIS.

Edited by Jimbeaux on Monday 25th August 01:26

[Jimbeaux]

Countdown said:

Jimbeaux said:

Countdown said:

Jimbeaux said:

audidoody said:

If you had any worries that we are being led by clueless, weak, and dangerously stupid politicians here is Yvette Cooper to put your mind at rest:

"Those returning from fighting in the Middle East should be forced to take part in compulsory de-radicalisation programmes even if they cannot be charged with a criminal offence".

I have no words.

Such weakness is sickening.

Yes. Even though they haven't committed a criminal offence they should still be punished.

Returning from fighting for ISIS is not a criminal offense??? Have you lost your mind?

I'm not sure why you're having difficulties in reading or comprehending my post. Let me try again;

If something is not illegal then people who do it are not breaking the law.
If they are not breaking the law they cannot be charged with a criminal offence.
If they cannot be charged with a criminal offence they cannot be tried, or found guilty, or punished.
This is how most democratic law-abiding societies operate. It most certainly isn't a weakness.

What Yvette Cooper is saying is, IF (note the big letters) they can't be charged with a criminal offence, we should still try to show them the error of their ways.

Hope that clarifies.

Never mind CD; you continue to march. All is well!

[Jimbeaux]

smegmore said:

Countdown said:

I'm not sure why you're having difficulties in reading or comprehending my post. Let me try again;

If something is not illegal then people who do it are not breaking the law.
If they are not breaking the law they cannot be charged with a criminal offence.
If they cannot be charged with a criminal offence they cannot be tried, or found guilty, or punished.
This is how most democratic law-abiding societies operate. It most certainly isn't a weakness.

What Yvette Cooper is saying is, IF (note the big letters) they can't be charged with a criminal offence, we should still try to show them the error of their ways.

Hope that clarifies.

right on, brother.



edited to add the ironic smiley for you cd.

Edited by smegmore on Monday 25th August 01:06

And that part about "we should try to show them the errors of their ways". Laughable. It is appalling at how weak and stupid some of our elected officials are.

[Baryonyx]

These terrorists should be hung by the neck until dead on return.

[Halmyre]

Jimbeaux said:

Halmyre said:

Jimbeaux said:

Intel further indicates that ISIS is working with the Latin drug cartels to breech our southern border (this has long been suspected).

What?!? What pish is this? Are people really taking this guff seriously?

Before you see it as far fetched, understand that our porous southern border has long been a bridge for OTMs (other than Mexicans). Many criminals and those of varying interests other than simple immigration have been caught in the past using the border. With that history, why is this so impossible? If I would have told you 15 years ago that a British rapper was fighting for ISIS and beheading journalists, you would call that guff too I am sure.

Just because two different factions are trying to breach the border doesn't mean they're working hand-in-hand. Neither side would trust the other any further than they could throw them.

[JagLover]

TheRealFingers99 said:

Jimbeaux said:

Returning from fighting for ISIS is not a criminal offense??? Have you lost your mind?

It may be offensive, but it isn't, AFAIK, a criminal offence.

An irrelevance really

Those fighting for Isis have no business living in a western democracy. Once identified they should be stripped of their citizenship. They have made their choice about how they wish to live.

[alfaman]

Countdown said:

And, if that's the will of the people, is it a bad thing?

I guess you'd be OK with a democracy who voted in the Nazi party .. as long as they had a majority vote ( after all any disaffected minorities facing genocide should just leave .... Right ?)

[scherzkeks]

Halmyre said:

What?!? What pish is this? Are people really taking this guff seriously?

US intelligence would actually know this, as they work with cartels, too.

[technogogo]

Jimbeaux said:

So, those fighting for ISIS, beheading children, etc should be allowed to pass back through customs to the US / UK and be given a hearty welcome home? To be clear, I am not speaking of "anyone" returning from fighting in the ME, I am speaking of those specifically fighting for ISIS.

Edited by Jimbeaux on Monday 25th August 01:26

A significant challenge exists with identification of such people. They aren't going to tick the "fought for terrorist entity" box on an immigration form.