US journalist beheaded by ISIS...

[Mr_B]

Twincharge said:

It can't be religion, as murder is condemned in Islam. So you see, you cannot be a Muslim if you take another's life. Don't be so narrow minded, just because one calls himself a muslim does not make one a muslim. You have to live like one too.

We are talking about a minority here, people who like to see the world burn, religion or no religion. Look at whats going on in Ferguson, thugs coming in from Texas just to take part in the destruction and violence.

All of a sudden 'all' muslims are murders - lovely stereotyping there. I recall the Irish went through something similar some years back, labels are not nice.

I thought your response was a parody of a certain type of PHer that posts here. But is isn't though, is it ?

[Justayellowbadge]

The Don of Croy said:

I'm not sure if this was discussed before - this child was born and raised in Sydney, British mum and islamic convert father. Dad has now taken his boys to Syria to partake in assorted nastiness, but tweets this picture with the tag 'That's my boy!'.

Speechless.

[TTwiggy]

Guam said:

From the small bits of information that have come out in the press, many of these are not from disadvantaged backgrounds, quite the reverse in some instances, many have been described in "glowing" terms academically. I think to write it all down as possibly poverty induced escapism doesn't quite cover it imho.

I think the link to the scientist I posted earlier may play a major part, its their otherwise "normality" that should disturb us.
I do wonder whether the kids are over indulged emotionally (cant do any wrong type thing). I know that is prevalent in some cultures, one thing that is for sure we are witnessing yet another example of the average person resorting to savagery at the drop of a hat. It is a very depressing state of affairs tbh.

I don't think we should allow any of these individuals to return (however its achieved), if we do they will, like a virus spread their disorder and end up "glorifying" their activities to get more converts to their "cause".

That opens up the more worrying thought that they actually believe in what they are doing. Much like the idealistic young men who went to Spain in the 30s, these young men really believe in a moral as well as a religious crusade. I don't know what anyone can do about that.

[Four Litre]

zygalski said:

Four Litre said:

zygalski said:

Four Litre said:

Its becoming more apparent that with Islam on a deeper level, your either with it or against it. When push comes to shove your the Kaffur/ Infidel 'insert derogitory term'. Its amazing how many people are too scared to say anything about it for fear of being called racist. Most only reaslise that Islam isnt a race but a religeon when told.

Its one of the biggest problems we face in the western world and sadly will need a leader of real courage and stature to deal with it (something we dont have). Sadly I think the only way to sort it out is to break a few eggs on UK soil and it wont be pretty.

Wow! How incredibly ignorant and/or naive.
Look up yer history pal. We in the West have in almost equal measure supported & attacked various Muslim extremist groups over the years....

Actually neither Zygalski. I was brought up knowing what was right and wrong, and not to believe in fairies.

So presumably at the moment you're busy protesting our support of the so-called Iranian extremist "Rebels" (AKA insurgents ) and have also protested all the other times in recent history that Western governments have supported & armed Muslim extremist regimes & groups?

Nope -I ve got a lot better things to do like work, raising my children and generally enjoying my life. I dont feel the need to take to the streets to state my beliefs, as mentioned earlier the majority know right from wrong.

[s1962a]

Guam said:

TTwiggy said:

That opens up the more worrying thought that they actually believe in what they are doing. Much like the idealistic young men who went to Spain in the 30s, these young men really believe in a moral as well as a religious crusade. I don't know what anyone can do about that.

With the depths of depravity they have sunken to, I beleive they should be dealt with as the Nuremberg trials dealt with the worst of the German monsters, I feel the Hague should handle them and the west should sign up for the Death penalty for the worst offenders (I am normally anti death penalty but I would make an exception in this case).

I agree. How will you single out these people?

[s1962a]

zygalski said:

s1962a said:

Extremist Salafi ideology - sponsored by Saudi. More political than anything Islamic.

But... but.... the Saudis are our friends, even though 15 out of 19 of the 9/11 terrorists came from that country.
Complex stuff this which extremist groups/regimes we support on a when & where basis!
If only life could be Guam-like in its simplicity.

Yes. All this gets easily overlooked.

I wonder how many of the 'something must be done' brigade actually lobby their MP's to stop dealing with the Saudi's?

[zygalski]

Four Litre said:

zygalski said:

Four Litre said:

zygalski said:

Four Litre said:

Its becoming more apparent that with Islam on a deeper level, your either with it or against it. When push comes to shove your the Kaffur/ Infidel 'insert derogitory term'. Its amazing how many people are too scared to say anything about it for fear of being called racist. Most only reaslise that Islam isnt a race but a religeon when told.

Its one of the biggest problems we face in the western world and sadly will need a leader of real courage and stature to deal with it (something we dont have). Sadly I think the only way to sort it out is to break a few eggs on UK soil and it wont be pretty.

Wow! How incredibly ignorant and/or naive.
Look up yer history pal. We in the West have in almost equal measure supported & attacked various Muslim extremist groups over the years....

Actually neither Zygalski. I was brought up knowing what was right and wrong, and not to believe in fairies.

So presumably at the moment you're busy protesting our support of the so-called Iranian extremist "Rebels" (AKA insurgents ) and have also protested all the other times in recent history that Western governments have supported & armed Muslim extremist regimes & groups?

Nope -I ve got a lot better things to do like work, raising my children and generally enjoying my life. I dont feel the need to take to the streets to state my beliefs, as mentioned earlier the majority know right from wrong.

You don't see any hypocrisy in the West supporting Muslim extremist groups when "the need arises"?

[zygalski]

s1962a said:

zygalski said:

s1962a said:

Extremist Salafi ideology - sponsored by Saudi. More political than anything Islamic.

But... but.... the Saudis are our friends, even though 15 out of 19 of the 9/11 terrorists came from that country.
Complex stuff this which extremist groups/regimes we support on a when & where basis!
If only life could be Guam-like in its simplicity.

Yes. All this gets easily overlooked.

I wonder how many of the 'something must be done' brigade actually lobby their MP's to stop dealing with the Saudi's?

Yes - or indeed stop funding their barbaric Muslim regime by protesting via not filling up at the pumps.
PH - hypocrisy matters

[scherzkeks]

TTwiggy said:

Much as disaffected black youths will gravitate towards gangs, so disaffected Muslim youths will gravitate towards the likes of IS.

Poor American youths join the army and I imagine that if you're living 4 to a room in a a Bradford terrace council house, then the appeal of going overseas and fighting is pretty strong (it's how most militaries have recruited for years). Throw in the controlling nature of religion and its appeal to people lacking structure in their lives and you have a potent mix.

The twist with youth that turn to extremist factions of Islam is that many of them can point directly to the actions of the United States and it's allies in attacking, destroying, and pulling out of two countries, as being a morally acceptable reason to join groups like IS. As our military calls it: blow-back. The continued drone attacks and resulting civilian body counts will just continue to stoke the fire.

[s1962a]

Guam said:

s1962a said:

Yes. All this gets easily overlooked.

I wonder how many of the 'something must be done' brigade actually lobby their MP's to stop dealing with the Saudi's?

Unfortunately its the world of "realpolitik" as long as we depend on their Oil little if anything will be done, personally if they could find a way to live without their crude I would be all for cutting off connections with them. The reality is we cant (unless we get Fracking going big time and even then its mainly Gas as I understand it).

Fair enough.

Recognising that this isn't a 'muslim' issue and is a political extremist ideology originating from Saudi would be a good start, and it's free.

[fido]

Can we apply the same rules to some of their sponsors ..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution_of_Rizana_N...

[s1962a]

fido said:

Can we apply the same rules to some of their sponsors ..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution_of_Rizana_N...

As Guam puts it, we can't touch the Saudi's, even though they are the ones exporting an extremist ideology over to western shores.

[s1962a]

Guam said:

s1962a said:

Fair enough.

Recognising that this isn't a 'muslim' issue and is a political extremist ideology originating from Saudi would be a good start, and it's free.

I don't think many dispute that, still doesn't explain the hundreds of Brits there though, especially as they started in Syria!

You are right about that - no idea how they got indoctrinated. Especially as mainstream mosques have their sermons monitored - these people must be getting their ideology from other sources. ISIS seem well funded and well equipped, and money could buy a lot of people willing to indoctrinate these impressionable minds.

[TinyCappo]

TTwiggy said:

Much as disaffected black youths will gravitate towards gangs, so disaffected Muslim youths will gravitate towards the likes of IS.

Poor American youths join the army and I imagine that if you're living 4 to a room in a a Bradford terrace council house, then the appeal of going overseas and fighting is pretty strong (it's how most militaries have recruited for years). Throw in the controlling nature of religion and its appeal to people lacking structure in their lives and you have a potent mix.

They have played the recording of the jihadi from Britain and its available on the BBC news website. He Sounds more Slough or Luton than Bradford.

[Einion Yrth]

fesuvious said:

Not true. The taking of life is condoned in revenge.

And Jihad is classed as revenge. For a Jihad can only be declared as a result of Islam being wronged in some way.

Tis a clever religion.

So, no, murder is not 'condemned in Islam'

More, sort of... redefined.

[Twincharge]

fesuvious said:

Not true. The taking of life is condoned in revenge.

And Jihad is classed as revenge. For a Jihad can only be declared as a result of Islam being wronged in some way.

Tis a clever religion.

So, no, murder is not 'condemned in Islam'

Incorrect, 'Jihad' is not the taking of life, but the defending of ones religion. Unfortunately, 'Jihad' has now become a man-made instrument of murder.

Revenge is strongly condemned in Islam.

[Moonhawk]

Ticker tape on BBC news website is reporting that the police have made a statement indicating that anyone viewing or sharing the video could be committing an offence.

Just though that might be pertinent to share in light of the discussions subject matter.

[Einion Yrth]

Moonhawk said:

Ticker tape on BBC news website is reporting that the police have made a statement indicating that anyone viewing or sharing the video could be committing an offence.

I have no intention of watching it but quite frankly "so f'ing what?"

[rich1231]

s1962a said:

You are right about that - no idea how they got indoctrinated. Especially as mainstream mosques have their sermons monitored - these people must be getting their ideology from other sources. ISIS seem well funded and well equipped, and money could buy a lot of people willing to indoctrinate these impressionable minds.

Loads of the funding comes from communities in the UK, and other nations.

[paranoid airbag]

Moonhawk said:

Ticker tape on BBC news website is reporting that the police have made a statement indicating that anyone viewing or sharing the video could be committing an offence.

Just though that might be pertinent to share in light of the discussions subject matter.

Tbh, it's not actually a recruitment tool. Quite the opposite in fact - these organisations thrive on recruits who think what they do is strike poses in cool uniforms then play real-life Halo.

Not stand around in squalid rooms over tired, scared and defenseless people before opening their throats.