Is It Time For The USA To Halt It's Embargo Of Cuba?
Discussion
GetCarter said:
Yes. I recorded an album in Cuba in the late 1990s, and had to take my own bog roll, as there was none in Havana. Give 'em a break Uncle Sam.
While I think the embargo is a complete waste of time after 60 years, it isn't as if the US is the only place on the planet to get toilet paper. Cuba can trade with pretty much every other country. Their economic plight is largely of their own making. I think the lifting of the embargo will probably show that to be true over the next few years.LucreLout said:
The USA doesn't feel as though Cuba has honoured all the currency they'd just FXd into dollars, or made reparation for the asset seizures under Fidel.
Cuba still doesn't feel it should have to honour the FX as it views it as being stolen from the Cuban people at the end of the revolutionary take over. Cuba felt compelled to take over refineries because the US wouldn't refine oil for them due to the FX problem, and so it went.
Nothing has changed, so nothing has changed.
I'd love to see the embargo ended for the good of the Cuban people, but I'd also suggest if you have yet to visit Cuba, do so before that happens. The people are fantastic, the country amazing, but it'll change so fast within a year of the embargo ending that it'll be unrecogniseable.
the asset seizures that caused all the trouble were the casinos and brothels owned by the mafia. the fact the embargo has lasted so long shows how engrained the american senate is/was with dirty money from the american criminal fraternity.Cuba still doesn't feel it should have to honour the FX as it views it as being stolen from the Cuban people at the end of the revolutionary take over. Cuba felt compelled to take over refineries because the US wouldn't refine oil for them due to the FX problem, and so it went.
Nothing has changed, so nothing has changed.
I'd love to see the embargo ended for the good of the Cuban people, but I'd also suggest if you have yet to visit Cuba, do so before that happens. The people are fantastic, the country amazing, but it'll change so fast within a year of the embargo ending that it'll be unrecogniseable.
i hope this goes well for cuba. fantastic people ,and as far as i know the only place in the world (or was) you can be vaccinated against every type of hepatitis . they have much to offer the world,but the place could change in short order with a large influx of american "businessmen".
mko9 said:
GetCarter said:
Yes. I recorded an album in Cuba in the late 1990s, and had to take my own bog roll, as there was none in Havana. Give 'em a break Uncle Sam.
While I think the embargo is a complete waste of time after 60 years, it isn't as if the US is the only place on the planet to get toilet paper. Cuba can trade with pretty much every other country. Their economic plight is largely of their own making. I think the lifting of the embargo will probably show that to be true over the next few years.As for no bog roll, I stayed in the Hotel Nacional in Havana for a few days and was in Cuba for over 2 weeks, and I had no problem wiping my arse. Bog roll was certainly not something in short supply. Even strolled the real gutter areas and back streets, away from the centre. Anywhere else on the planet you'd probably end up in the gutter with a knife in your back. Not here. It's certainly has an intimidating look, and you get approached regularly for money etc. But harm, virtually no chance. Go to the centre and they'll charm you to make you buy something. Take a pony and trap ride and you'll see the sights, and be taken to houses where cigars etc are in abundance for sale. The pressure to buy is worse than a timeshare salesman, but I don't smoke so it could never have worked on me. Even then it was hard!
Something else may I add, was their medical facilities (I had prostate problems while there, and was seen immediately and looked after exemplary and on medication within 10 mins. This was a Saturday, just 2 days before boarding a plane back to the UK on the Monday. I'd have had a ultrascan on the Monday if I'd still be there. I was told to see a doctor on landing in the UK. I said, Ok I'll make an urgent appointment as soon as I get back on British soil. 'You have to make an appointment?' They couldn't believe it. But then the outside world is something they don't get to hear about. Another great reason to go to Cuba while it still remains the same. The outside world is forgotten. No papers, no real news. It was bliss to be honest, if I hadn't been so ill near the end of it.
It may look like poverty stricken but this is the country that has had a vaccine for Meningitis B for years. The States last year called on Cuba to help out with students stricken with the bug. And we have kids here who have died from Men. B. And we get told there is no vaccine until recently, and even now the arguing is going on with Novartis over cost (money again).
Oh yeah, Cuba, if you have never been, has easily the most friendly people I have ever met in nearly 65 years.
And another oh yeah, when I landed in the UK, I did ring my doc. I said it was urgent. Is it life threatening I was asked? HTF do I know? That's why I need to see my doctor! Anyway, I got to see him 4 days later! I got the ultrasound - months later. Thank goodness, it was prostatitis (f painful) and the lump was an Epididymal cyst (make a note of that boys/men) if you get a lump in your testes, it's not always the big C.
And back to the embargo. Castro will soon be gone, his brother is ancient too.
MacDonalds etc. Bet they can't wait.
As said, if you have never been, you better go soon before it all changes. I'm going back again before it does.
Lots wrong there, but f lots wrong here too!
They could very easily do well out of biotech. There are so many educated and trained in medicine yet frustrated by being employed in tourism as there are not the opportunities to turn that training into meaningful employment.
They should remain VERY wary of American companies, for example our own experiences with Starbucks, eBay, google, Amazon with regards taxation. I'd rather they didn't import anyone else's ways, instead actually work to export more of what is good about their own culture.
If they become a rich man's playground again then that would be a step backwards, that only benefits the few.
There's so much potential that can be unlocked with a little investment and encouragement from the rest of the world, Cuba must remain in control of where that investment is coming from and how they can get the most from it.
They should remain VERY wary of American companies, for example our own experiences with Starbucks, eBay, google, Amazon with regards taxation. I'd rather they didn't import anyone else's ways, instead actually work to export more of what is good about their own culture.
If they become a rich man's playground again then that would be a step backwards, that only benefits the few.
There's so much potential that can be unlocked with a little investment and encouragement from the rest of the world, Cuba must remain in control of where that investment is coming from and how they can get the most from it.
I thought that the real reason was sour grapes.
Castro saw off the US, he saw them off again in the Bay of Pigs and then really frightened them, and everyone else in the World, in the Missile Crisis. He's also still there despite (I vaguely recall some ridiculous number) of plotted or actual attempts on his life.
The reason for the embargo is obvious, he won, they didn't, and they are never going to forgive him.
Castro saw off the US, he saw them off again in the Bay of Pigs and then really frightened them, and everyone else in the World, in the Missile Crisis. He's also still there despite (I vaguely recall some ridiculous number) of plotted or actual attempts on his life.
The reason for the embargo is obvious, he won, they didn't, and they are never going to forgive him.
Cuba is dirt, dirt poor but it's also safe and peaceful. I really worry for them that when they open up, which normal US relations is the first step towards, they just become another Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic or worse case some fvcked up cross between Russia and Tijuana. IMO there's a very real risk of the later in a post-communist Cuba when the narco cartels and organised criminals move in. A return to the 'Monte Carlo of the Caribbean' is a very, very long shot.
For now, there is a political hot potato. Sen Rubio will be a player next year as he will chair Foreign Relations committee and is opposed to any softening. so there is no immediate prospect of thousands of American holidaymakers descending on Cuba. However, there is no question in my mind that there will be a big lobby from US developers to get a piece of the action there over time, and that liberalization will happen. There used to be daily flights and a ferry from Florida before Castro, and eventually it will happen. I will very much miss Cuba as it is, though I would hope that in some way the lot of the Cuban people will improve. However having been there and talked to them often, they are quite hopeful of some improvements, but very fearful of being overrun by US standards, capitalism, globalization and so on, and lose their identity in the process.
KareemK said:
A US Republican is saying they shouldn't be negotiating for normal relations with repressive regimes.
You couldn't make it up
Why would you need to make it up? That seems to be the overwhelming opinion of most Cuban Americans as far as I can tell. You do know you're talking about about Senator Rubio from Florida right? You know the 'Cuban' one. Menendez, NJ Democrat, and another 'Cuban' also said it “sets a dangerous precedent” and will “invite further belligerence toward Cuba’s opposition movement and the hardening of the government’s dictatorial hold on its people.” . You couldn't make it up
dandarez said:
As for no bog roll, I stayed in the Hotel Nacional in Havana for a few days and was in Cuba for over 2 weeks, and I had no problem wiping my arse.
It was nearly 20 years ago when I was there and there wasn't any then, we had torn up newspapers in a box by the side of the bog.There were also no pencils. I was working with 18 musicians (the best in Cuba... Buena Vista Social club types - which happened the year after I left) none of whom owned a pencil! - or any manuscript paper. I had been warned about the lack of pencils and took lots. On my return to the UK I sent £100 worth of manuscript paper to Egrem recording studios to distribute amongst the musicians. It took 8 months to get there.
BTW they also had precious little 2" recording tape, so me, a producer and an engineer took 8 rolls of it... in our hand luggage! Imagine how much grief that caused up at Havana airport, then double it. They were convinced it was computer tapes full of nasty American spy code. (I was working for Universal)
Fabulous place full of fabulous people.
One more thing of interest, in the studio there was a rep from the Government to make sure I got the rhythms correct. Yep, Rhythm Police. I got pulled up for having the clave rhythm back to front on a rumba!
For those remotely interested - here's a 'cha cha cha' - feel free to use at any tea dance you happen to attend
http://stevecarter.com/random/cu1.mp3oh... and here's a 3 min video clip of the drive to work (wmv I'm afraid). Apologies for the crap quality, it was pre-digital. Starts outside the Hotel Inglaterra (where Hemminway and Winston Churchill stayed... bet they had bog roll!)
http://stevecarter.com/random/drivetowork.wmv
http://stevecarter.com/random/drivetowork.wmv
Edited by GetCarter on Thursday 18th December 08:00
fblm said:
KareemK said:
A US Republican is saying they shouldn't be negotiating for normal relations with repressive regimes.
You couldn't make it up
Why would you need to make it up? That seems to be the overwhelming opinion of most Cuban Americans as far as I can tell. You do know you're talking about about Senator Rubio from Florida right? You know the 'Cuban' one. Menendez, NJ Democrat, and another 'Cuban' also said it “sets a dangerous precedent” and will “invite further belligerence toward Cuba’s opposition movement and the hardening of the government’s dictatorial hold on its people.” . You couldn't make it up
It's the hypocrisy in the statement that is laughable.
Like the US doesn't do business with repressive regimes around the globe when it suits!
GetCarter said:
oh... and here's a 3 min video clip of the drive to work (wmv I'm afraid). Apologies for the crap quality, it was pre-digital. Starts outside the Hotel Inglaterra (where Hemminway and Winston Churchill stayed... bet they had bog roll!)
http://stevecarter.com/random/drivetowork.wmv
Loved that. Thanks! You were lucky to get that out of the country, no doubt!http://stevecarter.com/random/drivetowork.wmv
Edited by GetCarter on Thursday 18th December 08:00
I was there in 2003. I stayed for the most part on Cayo Coco, but spent a few nights in Havana and loved it. There really is nowhere left on earth like it. I've been saying for years that I must get back before their regime changes... better get a move on I guess.
How long before American companies set up sweatshops in Cuba to make cheap crap for Wal-Mart? Cuba's huge pool of cheap labour and close proximity to the US makes it a very attractive manufacturing base. Could this be why we've heard surprisingly little backlash from the Repugs and their corporate overlords?
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