Legroom on a plane

[creampuff]

blueg33 said:

More airlines refer to legroom and seat pitch than recline, I would therefore argue that it is this you are paying for unless reclining is specifically mentioned. This somewhat undermines the argument of "I have paid for a reclining seat, so I will recline it"

Airlines don't mention carpet, pressurised cabins, toilets, soap in toilets or cutlery to eat with either, but you still get it as standard fitment to the aircraft. The same as reclining seats. With the exception of some low cost airlines operating short routes, aircraft seats recline, that is the nature of aircraft seats.

[24lemons]

blueg33 said:

24lemons said:

blueg33 said:

Apparently the fact that it is not described as a laptop table doesn't mean that it isnt one. See posters above re seat description

The point is that IMO nobody travelling economy has the right to force their needs/wishes/requirements over anybody else's. If your requirements are that you absolutely must work or you have a condition that causes actual pain if you dont have a minimal amount of space or whatever, then there are options available to you to ensure that your needs are met.

Economy is a compromise between cost in relation to comfort. If you are genuinely unable or unwilling to make compromises then seek out alternatives. Dont make others suffer because of your intolerance.

Tolereance and manners work both ways.

Plus you have ignored that fact that there are not always options available as discussed earlier in the thread

Of course tolerance and manners work both ways which is why I said it's a compromise. A person who puts their seat back without considering the person behind is just as much a dick as someone who flatly wont allow (or physically blocks) the person in front from reclining.

If people actually considered the needs of others instead of selfishly suiting themselves and to hell with everyone else, then we would all get on much better.

The bottom line is that if you are travelling Economy you cant expect to have everything your own way.

[blueg33]

24lemons said:

blueg33 said:

24lemons said:

blueg33 said:

Apparently the fact that it is not described as a laptop table doesn't mean that it isnt one. See posters above re seat description

The point is that IMO nobody travelling economy has the right to force their needs/wishes/requirements over anybody else's. If your requirements are that you absolutely must work or you have a condition that causes actual pain if you dont have a minimal amount of space or whatever, then there are options available to you to ensure that your needs are met.

Economy is a compromise between cost in relation to comfort. If you are genuinely unable or unwilling to make compromises then seek out alternatives. Dont make others suffer because of your intolerance.

Tolereance and manners work both ways.

Plus you have ignored that fact that there are not always options available as discussed earlier in the thread

Of course tolerance and manners work both ways which is why I said it's a compromise. A person who puts their seat back without considering the person behind is just as much a dick as someone who flatly wont allow (or physically blocks) the person in front from reclining.

If people actually considered the needs of others instead of selfishly suiting themselves and to hell with everyone else, then we would all get on much better.

The bottom line is that if you are travelling Economy you cant expect to have everything your own way.

Agreed

[blueg33]

creampuff said:

blueg33 said:

More airlines refer to legroom and seat pitch than recline, I would therefore argue that it is this you are paying for unless reclining is specifically mentioned. This somewhat undermines the argument of "I have paid for a reclining seat, so I will recline it"

Airlines don't mention carpet, pressurised cabins, toilets, soap in toilets or cutlery to eat with either, but you still get it as standard fitment to the aircraft. The same as reclining seats. With the exception of some low cost airlines operating short routes, aircraft seats recline, that is the nature of aircraft seats.

By the same argument they dont refer to being able to use a laptop on a tray table, but it must be ok because they are big enough and people may have bought their ticket expecting to use the laptop

So why should recliners take priority over laptop users and vice versa? Its a shared space and just needs consideration.

The thing that is annoying is all these people saying "I have a reclining seat, I paid for it therefore I can recline it and sod the person behind me"

[creampuff]

blueg33 said:

By the same argument they dont refer to being able to use a laptop on a tray table, but it must be ok because they are big enough and people may have bought their ticket expecting to use the laptop

Using a laptop is not a basic function of the fittings on an aircraft. The airline does not state or imply what you can or can't do with your own personal items on the aircraft. The airline does fit reclining seats as aircraft supplied equipment for passengers to use. Seats provided by airline vs laptops personal passenger equipment. That is the difference.

The airline does allow you to bring laptops on board, but then they also allow you to bring large carry on bags and umbrellas aboard. Should you expect to be able to sit in your economy seat comfortably with your large carry on bag open on your lap while you carefully take out and repack the contents while also having your umbrella open to dry out?

Regardless, tray tables and economy class seat pitch are not big enough for laptop use anyway. It bothers adjacent passengers.

Edited by creampuff on Friday 29th August 14:05

[blueg33]

creampuff said:

blueg33 said:

By the same argument they dont refer to being able to use a laptop on a tray table, but it must be ok because they are big enough and people may have bought their ticket expecting to use the laptop

Using a laptop is not a basic function of the fittings on an aircraft. The airline does not state or imply what you can or can't do with your own personal items on the aircraft. The airline does fit reclining seats as aircraft supplied equipment for passengers to use. Seats provided by airline vs laptops personal passenger equipment. That is the difference.

The airline does allow you to bring laptops on board, but then they also allow you to bring large carry on bags and umbrellas aboard. Should you expect to be able to sit in your economy seat comfortably with your large carry on bag open on your lap while you carefully take out and repack the contents while also having your umbrella open to dry out?

Regardless, tray tables and economy class seat pitch are not big enough for laptop use anyway. It bothers adjacent passengers.

Edited by creampuff on Friday 29th August 14:05

The airline provide tray tables and food and drink, if you have drink on your table and someone reclines then your drink gets spilt. Its still a similar analogy.

The airline doesn't dictate where you out your laptop, but it allows you to use the table. It dictates where you put umbrellas etc. The airline allows you to recline a seat, but it also allows the person behind to have their legs in that space.

Therefore a right to recline is not created merely by the fact that the seat has a reclining mechanism.

ps. Small format laptops work fine in economy and on trains

[creampuff]

blueg33 said:

The airline provide tray tables and food and drink, if you have drink on your table and someone reclines then your drink gets spilt. Its still a similar analogy.

The airline doesn't dictate where you out your laptop, but it allows you to use the table. It dictates where you put umbrellas etc. The airline allows you to recline a seat, but it also allows the person behind to have their legs in that space.

Therefore a right to recline is not created merely by the fact that the seat has a reclining mechanism.

ps. Small format laptops work fine in economy and on trains

Mmmm, I don't know that the person in front reclining their seat has ever resulted in me spilling the drink or being unable to use the table. Low cabin air pressure combined with drinks which were sealed at sea level pressures has caused me to spill my drink. Seat recliners, no.

The airline only dictates where you put umbrellas or bags during take off, landing and turbulence so long as they are not in the aisle. I have opened up and repacked a full size cabin bag on the seat, when the seat next to me has been vacant. I have no expectation (in economy) of being able to do that if the seat next to me is not vacant, nor do I have an expectation to be able to comfortably use a laptop at any time.

Nor do I want to use a laptop on an airplane. These days there is plenty of in-flight entertainment but I prefer to sleep as do many other people. If I need to work on a flight, then someone can pay for business class for my own productivity and so I do not inconvenience the passengers around me.

[bullies180]

The Wookie said:

bullies180 said:

thought her knee was slightly outstretched? Not is his space? I mean theres not much room to put your feet on a plane (pretty much what this thread is about) so if the passenger next to me put their leg to side where i'm sitting i dont think i'd be to happy about that either? I'm assuming i've misunderstood this bit, apologies if so.

They'd booked pre-boarding, we left for the gate as soon as it was called and queued up early so Mum could sit in the front row (non-emergency side because of her knee) and have a bit more room so she could extend her leg. I was a late addition so missed the chance for pre-boarding. As she couldn't walk particularly quickly a few got to the gate before us. They all sat in the front row leaving the centre seat free on the right hand side.

The man was sat in the isle seat and Mum politely asked if he would mind swapping so she could stretch into the isle, but the arse basically said 'not my problem, I don't want to sit in the middle'. Slightly rude, but what can you do he got there first.

Because of the bulkhead to extend her leg she needed to stretch it over to the left slightly, and I'm talking perhaps a couple of inches to the left of the armrest. Bearing in mind that this guy could spread out into the isle if he wanted to.

yeah i'm not a fan of sitting in middle but have to a lot as misses likes the window seat. If your mum sat in the middle did her leg extend into his footwell is what i was asking, if so i could see how that might annoy him.

[King Herald]

So, after several pages of discussion it becomes clear, the only people who think reclining seats are an issue are the minority who have longer than normal legs. So, in a nutshell, abnormal people require others to sacrifice their comfort so that the abnormals can be comfortable. I can see the makings of a new Xmen movie......

[0000]

Not sure you can call it abnormal with so many on this thread, including yourself, having had issues.

[bullies180]

LucreLout said:

bullies180 said:

asn't specifically referring your post but i'll be honest and say it was included. I'll also say that the other guy was a dick and should have been spoken to thats for sure.

Well, if you're referring to my posts about the dwarfs, allow me to clarify.
It was a joke. Now, I accept, it may not have been a funny joke, but if someone invoking Snowwhite constitutes a threat, then you may have had a sheltered life. May. Joke. Snowwhite. Dwarfs.

honestly it was no one in particular.

[Jimbeaux]

I was on a 12 hour straight shot from Uzbekistan a while back (skipping the usual European overnight stop off). I was tired and with a stomach bug, and everyone was asleep but me. In the 11th miserable hour, I somehow managed to twist myself into an almost comfortable contortion when the sleeping lump to my right backhanded me square in the nuts.....and didn't even wake up to share in my misery. So there I was, tired, with a stomach bug, still awake, and with hurting nuts. The joy of flying.

[irocfan]

carl_w said:

The provision of a tray table suggests that it should be possible to use it.

I rather suspect that the table tray was designed before the advent of laptops, but please feel free to correct this assumption; also the assumption that a table tray is for trying to eat whatever passes for food on these things no?

[blueg33]

irocfan said:

carl_w said:

The provision of a tray table suggests that it should be possible to use it.

I rather suspect that the table tray was designed before the advent of laptops, but please feel free to correct this assumption; also the assumption that a table tray is for trying to eat whatever passes for food on these things no?

Agree on the laptop front, it was a poor example. But yes they are designed for drink at least, they even have a dimple to hold the plastic cup of misc cheap wine

[Clivey]

creampuff said:

Mmmm, I don't know that the person in front reclining their seat has ever resulted in me spilling the drink...

The jerk the table receives is obviously determined by how well damped the recline action is. I've had drinks spilt for me a couple of times. Nothing beats a bit of turbulence when eating though.

creampuff said:

...or being unable to use the table.

Again, depends on the design. Generally speaking, the older and smaller the plane, the worse they are.

[blueg33]

vescaegg said:

I imagine he is a very frequent flyer

In economy

[PorkInsider]

blueg33 said:

vescaegg said:

I imagine he is a very frequent flyer

In economy

[hman]

I fly economy because there is no way I can justify paying 300% on top of the fare to go in business - its a fair chunk of nett profit!!!

Anyway, I fly longhaul about 5 -6 times per year minimum and on the planes I fly in the way the seat reclines results in no loss of legroom for the person behind as the seat base moves forwards.

I have had a requirement to use a laptop use it on the tray table because of the reclined seat in front - I asked the cabin crew if I could use their jump seat (NO!) and as an alternative they offered me an empty bulkhead seat whilst I used my laptop.

Obviously on a full flight this wont work - but I have found that planning to not be able to use the laptop whilst on board and instead drink copious amounts of booze and watch telly instead!

[creampuff]

blueg33 said:

In economy

For personal travel, I prefer premium economy as it can usually be bought for 30% more than standard econ so for me it is worth it. If PEY isn't available, I prefer standard economy as given the choice between spending a week at work to pay for biz class and flying cattle class, I'll take the discomfort of cattle class. Premium economy is only a recent innovation, so up until about 8 years ago when PEY came out, every single one of my personal flights was in standard economy. Multiply the additional cost of biz with multiple tickets for my family and a longhaul return flight for everybody in biz would cost £10,000.

For my work related flights, flights over 5 hours are business class. My biz trips are almost always long flights so they are almost always business class. It is a lot more comfortable and a lot more expensive.

I've flown around the world, in business and in economy many times and I like to be quiet, unobtrusive and not bother other passengers.

Some people like the idiot-anti-recliners expect that long economy class will be comfortable and they will be able to get stuff done. They are idiots. Economy class is uncomfortable, there is little personal space and what little space there is must be shared with a lot of other people. The only way to make it bearable is to relax and accept that yes it is crap but it is cheap and it is not for long in the big scheme of your holiday. Then these idiots want to dictate others how they make use of the limited space they do have, while doing something like using a laptop themselves which really is annoying.



For the laptop users, using a laptop when people want to sleep is also inconsiderate. The screen is bright, much brighter than the IFE screen (if you are working, not if you are watching a film on it), it keeps people awake and the keystrokes are not quiet when the rest of the cabin is silent.

Edited by Gaz. on Saturday 30th August 16:39

[jdw100]

I'm off to Indonesia on Sunday for a couple of weeks.

Flown to USA quite a lot and out to NZ 3/4 times.

This will be my 25th flight this year.

6'2".

Only flown First a couple of times in my life.

Can't see what the fuss is about really. Its a flight so I'm not expecting 8 hours uninterrupted sleep. Read a book, have a doze, watch a few films on the iPad, have a snooze..repeat..arrive at destination. Have a decent sleep when you get there. At most its 24 hours of a bit of discomfort.

Not a big deal, no need to get angry.