9 year old accidently shoots her instructor with an Uzi!
Discussion
Jimbeaux said:
No worries.
I think that far fewer of certain Americans(the criminals)owning guns would lead to less murders. Although, 98% of those would still murder(each other)by knife, etc. albeit less successfully I am sure.
98%? I'd suggest that the evidence from other countries points to murders being much less common if criminals don't have easy access to firearms. I think that far fewer of certain Americans(the criminals)owning guns would lead to less murders. Although, 98% of those would still murder(each other)by knife, etc. albeit less successfully I am sure.
Jimbeaux said:
Of course you don't know me, yet you said "Except for the gunowners who all have a streak of moronic f
ktard in them". It is obvious, I would hope, that I am a gun owner. Therefore, either you do mean me or you didn't mean what you said. Just checking. To be serious, I understood your statement, I am just pointing out how easily the big wide paint brush get turned loose here. 
I think you've misread his post. He was specifically referring to Americans he knew and therefore, by extension, the gun owners he referred to were ones that he knew, too. ktard in them". It is obvious, I would hope, that I am a gun owner. Therefore, either you do mean me or you didn't mean what you said. Just checking. To be serious, I understood your statement, I am just pointing out how easily the big wide paint brush get turned loose here. Since Newsthump is a satirical site, I wonder whether the fact that the picture they used is patently NOT an Uzi is deliberate (ie. part of the satire) or merely ignorant?
http://newsthump.com/2014/08/27/we-must-teach-uzi-...
(I think the pic is of a H&K MP5-K isn't it?)
http://newsthump.com/2014/08/27/we-must-teach-uzi-...
(I think the pic is of a H&K MP5-K isn't it?)
Gandahar said:
By the way, if anyone mentions cars kill more people than guns I swear I will go into one, unarmed of course, because it is the dumbest argument the world has ever known 
I can shoot it down about 10 ways without breaking sweat.
That's odd, because it isn't actually an argument I can shoot it down about 10 ways without breaking sweat.
.(I know what you mean, in this context such a statement would probably be used to imply some dunderheaded argument).
Apologies for my slight uselessness but I did see a few months ago an excellent interactive map of gun laws and deaths by state. It's not the guardian one, it can crosslink just about any relevant factors you could list: magazine size bans, full auto bans, bans for felons or mentally disabled, gun ownership (per capita), homicides (ditto), gun homicides and suicides, plenty of others I've since forgotten. It was also pretty much as objective as could be imagined (save perhaps colour coding), which was impressive.
Shamefully my google-fu has failed me. Any ideas?
Jimbeaux said:
Mr Gearchange said:
Jim - do you think America would be a better place without guns?
Well, assuming we don't get invaded one day or have a full on "1984" occurence in government (neither of which we can totally discount nowadays), yes, it would be better. If all guns, from crims and good guys alike would vaporize into pixy dust, we would be better off in general. The answer can only be to get rid of guns wholesale.
America has achieved some truly astonishing things in it's short history - outlawing guns wouldn't be that difficult in the grand scheme of things - it just lacks the political will to do it.
In the meantime 30 odd thousand people die each year as a result of gun violence in the USA.
I appreciate there is some tradition and history with US gun ownership - but 30,000 people die each year. To anyone outside of the US (and a lot of people within it) thats just crazy.
Mr Gearchange said:
America has achieved some truly astonishing things in it's short history - outlawing guns wouldn't be that difficult in the grand scheme of things - it just lacks the political will to do it.
It would be political suicide though. Much like it would be political suicide here to impose a flat rate of tax (or a vastly simplified taxation system) or to legalise drugs - both of which also make sense.Frankly I'm amazed that Obama was able to push through some semblance of a Welfare State.
I was in SC last week. Talking to a friend about guns he explained that there is still a shortage of some ammo, 'really', yes. It's something that is making me think twice about relocating there to be honest. The whole licencing law is a joke, apparently it is not that hard to bypass the 'cooling off period'. Just go to a gun fair I was told, I hope this was incorrect?
Oh and then the 'concealed carry' permit which is valid for 4 years at a time, 4 fking years!? I don't know what it will take for the rednecks to stop the stockpile and find something more productive to do than run off rounds into targets and anything else. Pretty much the whole world looks at it and thinks it's a bit backward.
That tired old line 'how many more' to be used again, but in this instance what the parents were thinking is quite beyond me. The thought of my own kids handling an Uzi at this age leaves me cold. The instructor made a massive error in this instance not supporting the firearm. Perhaps he had become complacent himself? Anyway the point is a fully automatic Uzi was designed to kill, not shoot targets so it has no place in the range, let alone the street. As for everything else IMO anything auto/semi-auto should be restricted. Hand guns, should be restricted. Rifles etc should be yearly licensed.
Having lived and worked out there in some big hunting areas I know it will never happen in the short term. Too many people clinging to the divine right to bear arms. Its nonsensical, but it's there. Until a few more generations come through it wont end, the NRA are too obliging and have too many fingers in too many areas to be ousted. Hopefully the mugs in congress will come to their senses, but then you'd think by 2013 people wouldn't be getting their kicks from guns?
America. It's basically a bit fked up.
Oh and then the 'concealed carry' permit which is valid for 4 years at a time, 4 f
king years!? I don't know what it will take for the rednecks to stop the stockpile and find something more productive to do than run off rounds into targets and anything else. Pretty much the whole world looks at it and thinks it's a bit backward.That tired old line 'how many more' to be used again, but in this instance what the parents were thinking is quite beyond me. The thought of my own kids handling an Uzi at this age leaves me cold. The instructor made a massive error in this instance not supporting the firearm. Perhaps he had become complacent himself? Anyway the point is a fully automatic Uzi was designed to kill, not shoot targets so it has no place in the range, let alone the street. As for everything else IMO anything auto/semi-auto should be restricted. Hand guns, should be restricted. Rifles etc should be yearly licensed.
Having lived and worked out there in some big hunting areas I know it will never happen in the short term. Too many people clinging to the divine right to bear arms. Its nonsensical, but it's there. Until a few more generations come through it wont end, the NRA are too obliging and have too many fingers in too many areas to be ousted. Hopefully the mugs in congress will come to their senses, but then you'd think by 2013 people wouldn't be getting their kicks from guns?
America. It's basically a bit f
ked up.Mr Gearchange said:
America has achieved some truly astonishing things in it's short history - outlawing guns wouldn't be that difficult in the grand scheme of things - it just lacks the political will to do it.
I think you grossly underestimate the amount of grief that would cause. It will be a massive issue, but agreed 'something' needs to be done. When there was talk of a new law gun stores sold out of ammunition and weapons flew off the shelves. You are not dealing with a sane bunch of people. There is still a shortage of .22, it is difficult to believe but it's true.yonex said:
The instructor made a massive error in this instance for not supporting the firearm. Perhaps he had become complacent himself?
Agreed. When I was 13 I was allowed to shoot a few rounds of a handgun on an Army range as part of being in the cadets. The weapons instructor made me adopt a two-handed grip, stood right behind me mirroring my position with his arms alongside mine (think Tandem parachute jump stylee), instructed me to then (and only then) chamber a round and remove the safety, and pretty much almost (but not quite) held the gun with me. First shot I almost dropped it because of the recoil and the instructor had his hands clamped round mine (and the gun) before the gun had even stopped moving. And that was just a handgun, which is miles away from an Uzi that can go all over the place in the blink of an eye due to muzzle climb.Edited by JonRB on Wednesday 27th August 18:06
Clearly this girl shouldn't have been handed an automatic weapon with her level of experience, however I'd bet this 13 year old girl is better and safer than most of you are with a gun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3f8VmJRuBFY
JonRB said:
Mr Gearchange said:
America has achieved some truly astonishing things in it's short history - outlawing guns wouldn't be that difficult in the grand scheme of things - it just lacks the political will to do it.
It would be political suicide though. I've spent a lot of time working in the US over the years and have met a lot of American's - have some American family and a lot of American freinds. None of them would be against a ban on private citizens owning hand or assualt weapons.
I guess that's due to me being on one coast or another. I guess there are a lot of people in the middle who differ wildly from the people I know
Mr Gearchange said:
You strike me as a staunch defender of 2nd Ammendment rights. But if even you believe that America would be a better place without private citizens having guns - then why on earth isn't America doing something about it?
The answer can only be to get rid of guns wholesale.
Are you including crooks gangsters and drug dealers in your definition of 'private citizens'? If not, how is removing guns from law abiding people going to help? If you are including them, how on earth is the US govt supposed to disarm them?The answer can only be to get rid of guns wholesale.
Mr Gearchange said:
I've spent a lot of time working in the US over the years and have met a lot of American's - have some American family and a lot of American freinds. None of them would be against a ban on private citizens owning hand or assualt weapons.
I guess that's due to me being on one coast or another. I guess there are a lot of people in the middle who differ wildly from the people I know
Well, that's the thing though isn't it? America is several orders of magnitude bigger than the UK and look how resistant *we* are to change. Look at how much of a hoo-hah there was over something as innocuous as letting a couple marry regardless of their gender. To me, and to most of the people I know, it was a no-brainer. Yet to many of our countrymen you'd think it was the end of the world as we know it. I guess that's due to me being on one coast or another. I guess there are a lot of people in the middle who differ wildly from the people I know
130R said:
Clearly this girl shouldn't have been handed an automatic weapon with her level of experience, however I'd bet this 13 year old girl is better and safer than most of you are with a gun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3f8VmJRuBFY
You'd win that bet with me and I'm proud to say so.What sort of f
ked up society can think its good that a child is so proficient with a deadly weapon? Only in America..........Dr Jekyll said:
Mr Gearchange said:
You strike me as a staunch defender of 2nd Ammendment rights. But if even you believe that America would be a better place without private citizens having guns - then why on earth isn't America doing something about it?
The answer can only be to get rid of guns wholesale.
Are you including crooks gangsters and drug dealers in your definition of 'private citizens'? If not, how is removing guns from law abiding people going to help? If you are including them, how on earth is the US govt supposed to disarm them?The answer can only be to get rid of guns wholesale.
You disarm them by making it illegal then enforcing the law.
It wouldn't be quick - it wouldn't be cheap - and it wouldn't be easy.
But it would help save up to 30,000 lives a year. Lets get that into some kind of context - gun deaths in America are the equivalent casualty rate of 10 9/11's a year. TEN. A YEAR.
Now lets look at the amount of effort, time, money and further lives America dedicated in response to 9/11.
The response to 9/11 and it's 3000 deaths cost America $6 TRILLION plus god knows how many more lives.
Even if you bought back all the weapons, paid off the industry and build hundreds of more prisons to house those who didn't comply with the new law it wouldn't get close of the cost of avenging 3000 deaths in the World Trade Centre attacks - and guns kill TEN TIMES as many people as 9/11 each year.
Its achieveable if America really wanted to do it. But they don't - it seems they would rather suffer the equivalent deaths of ten 9/11's each year so they can continue to play at being Cowboys - to the rest of the worlds utter incredulity.
Dr Jekyll said:
FredClogs said:
I'm pretty sure that if people didn't have guns then people wouldn't get shot.
I think you can over complicate this argument.
Since guns can't be uninvented I don't see your point.I think you can over complicate this argument.
I think that is far more clarification than the point really warranted - I'm oot...
130R said:
Clearly this girl shouldn't have been handed an automatic weapon with her level of experience, however I'd bet this 13 year old girl is better and safer than most of you are with a gun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3f8VmJRuBFY
Yes but she's not safer than me without a gun, which is the point. BJG1 said:
Jimbeaux said:
Of course you don't know me, yet you said "Except for the gunowners who all have a streak of moronic fktard in them". It is obvious, I would hope, that I am a gun owner. Therefore, either you do mean me or you didn't mean what you said. Just checking. To be serious, I understood your statement, I am just pointing out how easily the big wide paint brush get turned loose here.
I think you've misread his post. He was specifically referring to Americans he knew and therefore, by extension, the gun owners he referred to were ones that he knew, too. ktard in them". It is obvious, I would hope, that I am a gun owner. Therefore, either you do mean me or you didn't mean what you said. Just checking. To be serious, I understood your statement, I am just pointing out how easily the big wide paint brush get turned loose here. Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff