9 year old accidently shoots her instructor with an Uzi!
Discussion
[quote=Colonial]
(ignoring suicide - people will kill themselves no matter what).[quote=Colonial]
Some argue that pulling a trigger is a relatively impulsive method of suicide. That cutting wrists, hanging, or jumping from a bridge takes more resolve.
If you're going to 'cry for help', there's more chance of help arriving whilst slowly bleeding to death, or parked on top of an edge.
Less time with a gun help in your own mouth.
(ignoring suicide - people will kill themselves no matter what).[quote=Colonial]
Some argue that pulling a trigger is a relatively impulsive method of suicide. That cutting wrists, hanging, or jumping from a bridge takes more resolve.
If you're going to 'cry for help', there's more chance of help arriving whilst slowly bleeding to death, or parked on top of an edge.
Less time with a gun help in your own mouth.
THX]olonial said:
(ignoring suicide - people will kill themselves no matter what).
I was trying to avoid the puerile debate about how "they'd do it anyway" but if there is info about that I'd be interested.
Colonial said:
Some argue that pulling a trigger is a relatively impulsive method of suicide. That cutting wrists, hanging, or jumping from a bridge takes more resolve.
If you're going to 'cry for help', there's more chance of help arriving whilst slowly bleeding to death, or parked on top of an edge.
Less time with a gun help in your own mouth.
Interesting. If you're going to 'cry for help', there's more chance of help arriving whilst slowly bleeding to death, or parked on top of an edge.
Less time with a gun help in your own mouth.
I was trying to avoid the puerile debate about how "they'd do it anyway" but if there is info about that I'd be interested.
THX said:
There's a video?!
Holy s
t.
Of course taken by her parents to keep a record if her progression in guns! Sort of like a normal parent you or I in a civilised society keeping videos of our little ones starting in football from mini 5 a side to full sized pitch arguing with the ref or coach rather than blowing his brains out. Holy s
t.Dr Jekyll said:
Well that's all right then. At least decent law abiding people are unarmed.
Yes it is alright. Most of this is just about property it seems. If someone comes up to you pointing a gun and says "yo, yo, give me your wallet you mother-humper" (or whatever the current vernacular is) the appropriate response is not to draw a gun; it is to say "here you go old chap, please take it and be on your way".
Same as if someone steals your car or you find them in your house in the night stealing your laptop. Just let them take it - its only 'stuff' you can replace it. That way no one gets hurt. Let the Police and insurance company sort it out.
You might be a bit traumatised but will have a good story to tell your friends. If you start pulling a gun and firing at each other there surely is a good chance you will be killed or injured, you might kill someone else and have to live with that for the rest of your life. There are all sorts of consequences none of which are, to my mind. better than losing a wallet with a few credit cards that are easily cancelled.
Oh and before I get a whole load of 'you limey,commie, fag etc.' I would add I have done years of Krav Maga, FAST and other self-defence training. Every instructor will tell you - if someone wants your stuff give it to them; its better than being dead or in a wheelchair or having a grieving family. Hand it over, take a good description of the person, call the Police.
Now I guess if a team of trained assassins under order from the President/CIA are breaking in to your house because you have the secret files then yes maybe that pistol and assault rifle you keep under the bed are a good idea..but for the 99.99999% of the rest of us...not so much.
jdw100 said:
Yes it is alright.
Most of this is just about property it seems. If someone comes up to you pointing a gun and says "yo, yo, give me your wallet you mother-humper" (or whatever the current vernacular is) the appropriate response is not to draw a gun; it is to say "here you go old chap, please take it and be on your way".
Same as if someone steals your car or you find them in your house in the night stealing your laptop. Just let them take it - its only 'stuff' you can replace it. That way no one gets hurt. Let the Police and insurance company sort it out.
You might be a bit traumatised but will have a good story to tell your friends. If you start pulling a gun and firing at each other there surely is a good chance you will be killed or injured, you might kill someone else and have to live with that for the rest of your life. There are all sorts of consequences none of which are, to my mind. better than losing a wallet with a few credit cards that are easily cancelled.
Oh and before I get a whole load of 'you limey,commie, fag etc.' I would add I have done years of Krav Maga, FAST and other self-defence training. Every instructor will tell you - if someone wants your stuff give it to them; its better than being dead or in a wheelchair or having a grieving family. Hand it over, take a good description of the person, call the Police.
Now I guess if a team of trained assassins under order from the President/CIA are breaking in to your house because you have the secret files then yes maybe that pistol and assault rifle you keep under the bed are a good idea..but for the 99.99999% of the rest of us...not so much.
So by the same argument nobody should have self defence training in case they use the option to defend themselves.Most of this is just about property it seems. If someone comes up to you pointing a gun and says "yo, yo, give me your wallet you mother-humper" (or whatever the current vernacular is) the appropriate response is not to draw a gun; it is to say "here you go old chap, please take it and be on your way".
Same as if someone steals your car or you find them in your house in the night stealing your laptop. Just let them take it - its only 'stuff' you can replace it. That way no one gets hurt. Let the Police and insurance company sort it out.
You might be a bit traumatised but will have a good story to tell your friends. If you start pulling a gun and firing at each other there surely is a good chance you will be killed or injured, you might kill someone else and have to live with that for the rest of your life. There are all sorts of consequences none of which are, to my mind. better than losing a wallet with a few credit cards that are easily cancelled.
Oh and before I get a whole load of 'you limey,commie, fag etc.' I would add I have done years of Krav Maga, FAST and other self-defence training. Every instructor will tell you - if someone wants your stuff give it to them; its better than being dead or in a wheelchair or having a grieving family. Hand it over, take a good description of the person, call the Police.
Now I guess if a team of trained assassins under order from the President/CIA are breaking in to your house because you have the secret files then yes maybe that pistol and assault rifle you keep under the bed are a good idea..but for the 99.99999% of the rest of us...not so much.
redtwin said:
That is good advice, however I imagine it would be very hard to follow if the thing an intruder wants to take is your daughter's virginity.
Despite my anti-gun position on all this some of the posts from this side of the argument are a little simplistic (naïve?) in their view.Bad people to do bad things.
I'm thinking of a case near me some years ago now where a petrol station was robbed and customers were instructed to get on the floor face down. Having gotten their gains the robbers walked out but casually put a bullet in the head of a young lad who was lying down as he'd been told to.
Not saying that us having arms in this country would have changed anything but I'm just pointing out the crims tend to be pretty f
ked up and can't be relied on to be rational.Edited by DoubleSix on Thursday 28th August 10:00
redtwin said:
That is good advice, however I imagine it would be very hard to follow if the thing an intruder wants to take is your daughter's virginity.
Oh, right and how often does that happen? Twice this week?And of course I'll be there armed and ready and be able to fight them all off. I'll probably get shot in the shoulder though but just grimace and carry on with the gun battle.
Seriously, the chances of armed intruders breaking in to a house to rape your daughter is what? I have never heard of a single case.
If you were that worried about your daughter you would never let her get in a car or walk up stairs or take a bath...far, far more likely to end in her getting injured.
Where do you live where this is even a remote possibility? If it is likely- why would you live there, surely you owe it to your daughter to move house?
Is it Slough?
I'm pretty good at Call of Duty, but I'd still want to avoid getting into a firefight with someone who's armed themselves with the intention of committing a robbery.
I heard the term 'get the drop on' somewhere once, I think it was in Sin City? Anyways, that sounds like tactical brilliance. If I could 'get the drop on' everybody, every time, maybe then I'd consider the odd firefight.
It's because I'm clever, innit.
I heard the term 'get the drop on' somewhere once, I think it was in Sin City? Anyways, that sounds like tactical brilliance. If I could 'get the drop on' everybody, every time, maybe then I'd consider the odd firefight.
It's because I'm clever, innit.
Edited by THX on Thursday 28th August 10:03
THX]olonial said:
(ignoring suicide - people will kill themselves no matter what).
Colonial said:
Some argue that pulling a trigger is a relatively impulsive method of suicide. That cutting wrists, hanging, or jumping from a bridge takes more resolve.
If you're going to 'cry for help', there's more chance of help arriving whilst slowly bleeding to death, or parked on top of an edge.
Less time with a gun help in your own mouth.
There's not much evidence for that - we looked up the stats in the office yesterday after a debate about it. If you compare the US to the UK, many more people commit suicide with firearms in the States but the suicide rate overall is the same and comparable to other Western countries. If you're going to 'cry for help', there's more chance of help arriving whilst slowly bleeding to death, or parked on top of an edge.
Less time with a gun help in your own mouth.
redtwin said:
That is good advice, however I imagine it would be very hard to follow if the thing an intruder wants to take is your daughter's virginity.
Don't tell me, you have a very particular set of skills...In the news today:
"Cops" filmcrew member shot by Cop(s) he was filming when they engaged in a firefight with a robber who was armed with a pellet gun...
http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/27/showbiz/cops-crew-me...
The fewer guns there is the fewer people will get shot - I mean I know I'm labouring the point but it's worth repeating...
Dr Jekyll said:
So by the same argument nobody should have self defence training in case they use the option to defend themselves.
That more for if someone is trying to attack you. Not if they just want your money, car, bicycle etc. I have never used it, probably will never have to.
Best advice is - walk away from trouble, use verbal de-escalation techniques, run if you have to/are able to/is appropriate (not if someone has a knife and is closer than 3 metres to you)
If someone has a gun or a knife - give them what they want.
If someone has a knife under your chin - then trying to pull a gun would, in my opinion, be a very silly thing to do. Ditto if someone is pointing a gun at you.
Exceptions would be - if someone is trying to kidnap you or if someone is clearly intent on attacking/hurting/killing you.
I should imagine that the chances of you having a gun on your person if some attack happened would be slim.
redtwin said:
That is good advice, however I imagine it would be very hard to follow if the thing an intruder wants to take is your daughter's virginity.
How often does that happen compared to daughters shooting fathers, relations shooting relations, neighbours shooting neighbours, accidental deaths and suicides by firearms ?But you are prepared to put up with that just in case a stranger comes into your house to rape or murder you or your family.
It's an emotional argument not a statistical one. You are probably more likely to be shot dead by accident by the US police.
Prawnboy said:
back in with the fear-mongering.
you know we have rapists here too.
Exactly... "Oh hang on lads, I know you've just battered my door down in a very unlikely scenario to rape my poor daughter; can you wait there whilst I get the key to my gun safe? Doreen, Doreen have you seen the key? Sorry lads I'll be there to take you all out with a single shot in a sec."you know we have rapists here too.
FredClogs said:
Don't tell me, you have a very particular set of skills...
In the news today:
"Cops" filmcrew member shot by Cop(s) he was filming when they engaged in a firefight with a robber who was armed with a pellet gun...
http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/27/showbiz/cops-crew-me...
The fewer guns there is the fewer people will get shot - I mean I know I'm labouring the point but it's worth repeating...
Reminds me of that guy with a gun outside the Empire State Building a couple of years back. He'd already killed someone and the cops told him to put down the gun, he didn't so they fired multiple shots. He died and 9 passersby were shot and injured. In the news today:
"Cops" filmcrew member shot by Cop(s) he was filming when they engaged in a firefight with a robber who was armed with a pellet gun...
http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/27/showbiz/cops-crew-me...
The fewer guns there is the fewer people will get shot - I mean I know I'm labouring the point but it's worth repeating...
Despite all the training, the few videos of US cops firing at 'perps' that I have seen, all look pretty chaotic and full of panic. I don't blame them tho'.
On the page linked above is another story of where cops shot at and killed the victim of a stabbing, mistaking him for the assailant
Edited by croyde on Thursday 28th August 10:43
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