9 year old accidently shoots her instructor with an Uzi!
Discussion
was chatting to a friend on Facebook about this, he is English, but married an American and moved out there.
He has a keen interest in firearms, so he is certainly not "anti gun:
He posted this a couple of hours ago:
To quote one redneck I heard on the radio here - "If we didn't have guns we'd all be talking English now". Yehaw!!!
Says it all really doesn't it?
He has a keen interest in firearms, so he is certainly not "anti gun:
He posted this a couple of hours ago:
To quote one redneck I heard on the radio here - "If we didn't have guns we'd all be talking English now". Yehaw!!!
Says it all really doesn't it?
Guam said:
skyrover said:
It's not a bad idea to teach children to handle weapons safely such as a shotgun, rifle or even pocket knife... the risk is very very low and instils respect and discipline from an early age.
That said... some things are purely from a practical perspective completely inappropriate such as an erratic, hand held automatic weapon.
I tend to disagree, the most respectful thing to do with a firearm is never to touch them, they were invented for one thing and one thing only, and they do it remarkably well. We forget Guns were invented to kill Humans, hunting with them came later.That said... some things are purely from a practical perspective completely inappropriate such as an erratic, hand held automatic weapon.
I don't have any figures but I would imagine the vast majority of gun ownership in the US is not there for sport shooting - or hunting - but to possess the ability to kill a human being.
That's f
ked up.Why does no other planet on earth have this obsession with owning the necessary hardware to murder people?
Guam said:
I tend to disagree, the most respectful thing to do with a firearm is never to touch them, they were invented for one thing and one thing only, and they do it remarkably well. We forget Guns were invented to kill Humans, hunting with them came later.
Guns IMO are a tool... yes a dangerous tool, but a tool nonetheless.Many tools can kill you. A chainsaw, a drill, a screwdriver, a knife, a car, a motorcycle, a grinder, a crusher etc etc
Of course the primary purpose of these tools is not (mostly) to kill or maim, but ultimately there is an element of risk with all of them. A gun is no more dangerous than a car in the wrong, unskilled hands.
My approach to the whole thing is that life is full of dangers and rather than pretend they do not exist, learn to treat them appropriately and with respect.
In a country where gun's are plentiful and the opportunities are there to correctly utilise them (hunting/target shooting) than it's prudent to teach your children from an early age before they discover them for themselves.
Aren't sub-machine guns supposed to be fired in bursts of three to minimise recoil? Full-auto for a nine-year-old girl? Yee ha indeed.
I'm also given to understand that weapons training is largely useless in real life unless you also possess the psychological ability and presence of mind to aim accurately at another human being in full-on threat mode and pull the trigger.
There are any number of accounts of trained soldiers who were expert marksmen on the range being unable to shoot at the enemy.
Apparently shooting someone in real life is not same fun as when Sly and Arnie do it in the Expendables.
Anyway gun folk, good luck with the Glock when the bad people come into your bedroom at 3:30am.
I'm also given to understand that weapons training is largely useless in real life unless you also possess the psychological ability and presence of mind to aim accurately at another human being in full-on threat mode and pull the trigger.
There are any number of accounts of trained soldiers who were expert marksmen on the range being unable to shoot at the enemy.
Apparently shooting someone in real life is not same fun as when Sly and Arnie do it in the Expendables.
Anyway gun folk, good luck with the Glock when the bad people come into your bedroom at 3:30am.
Edited by audidoody on Wednesday 27th August 10:36
My Dad taught me to shoot when I was eight.
He taught me to respect the firearm and how to behave with it. We never has any problems. When my son gets to that age I will teach him.
The instructor here was at fault, really, sad to say. Handing a gangly nine year old a fully automatic weapon is asking for trouble - it's like handing a small child a hose from a fire engine and expecting not to get soaked.
Poor kid.
He taught me to respect the firearm and how to behave with it. We never has any problems. When my son gets to that age I will teach him.
The instructor here was at fault, really, sad to say. Handing a gangly nine year old a fully automatic weapon is asking for trouble - it's like handing a small child a hose from a fire engine and expecting not to get soaked.
Poor kid.
Edited by Soov535 on Wednesday 27th August 10:37
skyrover said:
appropriately and with respect.
In a country where gun's are plentiful and the opportunities are there to correctly utilise them (hunting/target shooting) than it's prudent to teach your children from an early age before they discover them for themselves.
but a 9 year old with a semi automatic weapon?In a country where gun's are plentiful and the opportunities are there to correctly utilise them (hunting/target shooting) than it's prudent to teach your children from an early age before they discover them for themselves.
I saw an article yesterday about us teaching sex education to 7 years old, which I thought was a tad too young, but this?
skyrover said:
In a country where gun's are plentiful and the opportunities are there to correctly utilise them (hunting/target shooting) than it's prudent to teach your children from an early age before they discover them for themselves.
It's a pretty sad state of affairs that guns are so plentiful and easily accessible that you have to teach kids how to use them in the case they ever find them. Really the parents need good lesson on how to keep their guns well out of the hands of children.
skyrover said:
Guns IMO are a tool... yes a dangerous tool, but a tool nonetheless.
Many tools can kill you. A chainsaw, a drill, a screwdriver, a knife, a car, a motorcycle, a grinder, a crusher etc etc
Of course the primary purpose of these tools is not (mostly) to kill or maim, but ultimately there is an element of risk with all of them. A gun is no more dangerous than a car in the wrong, unskilled hands.
My approach to the whole thing is that life is full of dangers and rather than pretend they do not exist, learn to treat them appropriately and with respect.
In a country where gun's are plentiful and the opportunities are there to correctly utilise them (hunting/target shooting) than it's prudent to teach your children from an early age before they discover them for themselves.
That approach doesn't ever seen to be the answer though.Many tools can kill you. A chainsaw, a drill, a screwdriver, a knife, a car, a motorcycle, a grinder, a crusher etc etc
Of course the primary purpose of these tools is not (mostly) to kill or maim, but ultimately there is an element of risk with all of them. A gun is no more dangerous than a car in the wrong, unskilled hands.
My approach to the whole thing is that life is full of dangers and rather than pretend they do not exist, learn to treat them appropriately and with respect.
In a country where gun's are plentiful and the opportunities are there to correctly utilise them (hunting/target shooting) than it's prudent to teach your children from an early age before they discover them for themselves.
A nine year old with an Uzi at a joint called burgers & bullets is not respect for the tool, if an instructor had their hand cut off at a place called 'chainsaws & chilli dogs' we would all be asking why a nine year old girl was using a chainsaw for recreation.
we are not talking about a kid on a farm in the middle of bear country learning how to use a tool correctly, but the casual attitude toward guns that makes a stop of like this on a family holiday a good idea.
Soov535 said:
My Dad taught me to shoot when I was eight.
He taught me to respect the firearm and how to behave with it. We never has any problems. When my son gets to that age I will teach him.
I was taught weapons handling in the cadets at school at the age of 13, but was already used to shooting air rifles by then. He taught me to respect the firearm and how to behave with it. We never has any problems. When my son gets to that age I will teach him.
To this day I am unable to point even a toy gun at someone, nor am I able to hand a gun to someone (or have one handed to me) without checking the chamber is clear.
(Mind you, my dad having an Accidental Discharge of a 410 shotgun that blew a hole through a plate glass window when I was a kid also engendered a lot of respect for safety too. Especially as I was standing next to him at the time)
Prawnboy said:
A nine year old with an Uzi at a joint called burgers & bullets is not respect for the tool, if an instructor had their hand cut off at a place called 'chainsaws & chilli dogs' we would all be asking why a nine year old girl was using a chainsaw for recreation.
That's a fair point. Edited by JonRB on Wednesday 27th August 10:44
JonRB said:
Soov535 said:
My Dad taught me to shoot when I was eight.
He taught me to respect the firearm and how to behave with it. We never has any problems. When my son gets to that age I will teach him.
I was taught weapons handling in the cadets at school at the age of 13, but was already used to shooting air rifles by then. He taught me to respect the firearm and how to behave with it. We never has any problems. When my son gets to that age I will teach him.
To this day I am unable to point even a toy gun at someone, nor am I able to hand a gun to someone (or have one handed to me) without checking the chamber is clear.
(Mind you, my dad having an Accidental Discharge of a 410 shotgun that blew a hole through a plate glass window when I was a kid also engendered a lot of respect for safety too. Especially as I was standing next to him at the time)
Prawnboy said:
A nine year old with an Uzi at a joint called burgers & bullets is not respect for the tool, if an instructor had their hand cut off at a place called 'chainsaws & chilli dogs' we would all be asking why a nine year old girl was using a chainsaw for recreation.
That's a fair point. Edited by JonRB on Wednesday 27th August 10:44
onyx39 said:
was chatting to a friend on Facebook about this, he is English, but married an American and moved out there.
He has a keen interest in firearms, so he is certainly not "anti gun:
He posted this a couple of hours ago:
To quote one redneck I heard on the radio here - "If we didn't have guns we'd all be talking English now". Yehaw!!!
Says it all really doesn't it?
Sorry, is it wrong I He has a keen interest in firearms, so he is certainly not "anti gun:
He posted this a couple of hours ago:
To quote one redneck I heard on the radio here - "If we didn't have guns we'd all be talking English now". Yehaw!!!
Says it all really doesn't it?
?Prawnboy said:
A nine year old with an Uzi at a joint called burgers & bullets is not respect for the tool, if an instructor had their hand cut off at a place called 'chainsaws & chilli dogs' we would all be asking why a nine year old girl was using a chainsaw for recreation.
Just as we are asking why a 9 year old was using an Uzi for recreation. It's a fair question in both cases but hardly illuminates anything further.Prawnboy said:
That approach doesn't ever seen to be the answer though.
A nine year old with an Uzi at a joint called burgers & bullets is not respect for the tool, if an instructor had their hand cut off at a place called 'chainsaws & chilli dogs' we would all be asking why a nine year old girl was using a chainsaw for recreation.
we are not talking about a kid on a farm in the middle of bear country learning how to use a tool correctly, but the casual attitude toward guns that makes a stop of like this on a family holiday a good idea.
I've already stated and 9 year old with an erratic automatic machine pistol is highly inappropriate. Rifles and shotguns however are a good start.A nine year old with an Uzi at a joint called burgers & bullets is not respect for the tool, if an instructor had their hand cut off at a place called 'chainsaws & chilli dogs' we would all be asking why a nine year old girl was using a chainsaw for recreation.
we are not talking about a kid on a farm in the middle of bear country learning how to use a tool correctly, but the casual attitude toward guns that makes a stop of like this on a family holiday a good idea.
Efbe said:
no, just no. what an idiotic idea.
Really? I remember the first lesson of basic weapons training I did (way back at the age of 13) where the first thing some of my peers did upon being handed a real (but unloaded) gun was to point it at someone and go "pyow! pyow!" whilst pulling the trigger. They were given a total roasting for that, obviously. But it rather illustrates what might happen in an unsupervised environment with access to a loaded gun - like, in America for example. Guns are a fact of life in America so it follows that gun safety should be an important fact of life in America too. Gun education is arguably as important as sex education, if guns are something that kids are going to encounter.
In the UK, gun safety is perhaps less important as firearms are less likely to be encountered. But it doesn't hurt to have a very healthy respect for them.
Presumably if you're happy to accept living in a society that remains armed to the teeth based wholly on an existential threat from 200 years ago and further involve yourself in those arms on a professional footing, then I guess you accept that those same arms may one day bring about your own demise. Unlucky mate, but it was a choice you made.
Guam said:
I think its more about the fact that Kids are encountering them in the first place that is the issue here, what is wrong with no one being able to handle firearms until they reach the age of Majority, rifles and shotguns most kids would not be able to lift effectively, unless one designs "Kid" guns, and that for me is completely messed up tbh.
Yes, but one has to be pragmatic and look at how life *is* rather than how you *want* it to be. It's like saying that kids shouldn't be taught sex education until the age of consent, because they shouldn't be having sex before that age. And yet they do, which is why sex education starts way younger (although personally I think that it starts too young - teaching boys sex education where they are still at the "ewwwwww, girls!" stage seems rather pointless to me. But I digress)
JonRB said:
Efbe said:
no, just no. what an idiotic idea.
Really? I remember the first lesson of basic weapons training I did (way back at the age of 13) where the first thing some of my peers did upon being handed a real (but unloaded) gun was to point it at someone and go "pyow! pyow!" whilst pulling the trigger. They were given a total roasting for that, obviously. But the point still stands that you can imagine what might happen in an unsupervised environment with access to a loaded gun - like, in America for example. Guns are a fact of life in America so it follows that gun safety should be an important fact of life in America too. Gun education is arguably as important as sex education, if guns are something that kids are going to encounter.
In the UK, gun safety is perhaps less important as firearms are less likely to be encountered. But it doesn't hurt to have a very healthy respect for them.
do kids learn to drive at 9? use power tools? use a chainsaw? Operate a deep fat fryer?
All part of American life but no. you don't need to handle a gun to respect it. In fact using a gun at a firing range will do quite the opposite, it makes you aware of quite how easy it is to use one.
seeing someone ripped apart from gunfire and dying in front of you in a pool of blood whilst you attempt to apply pressure in a futile gesture. now that gives you some respect for them. (not that I am suggesting this)
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