9 year old accidently shoots her instructor with an Uzi!

[hairykrishna]

Nom de ploom said:

One might say that if the guns weren't there in the first place children wouldn't need training or advice about how to use them or make them safe etc....

just a thought....

This is obviously true - I don't think there's much point in the average kid in this country having training. You can't wish away the guns in the US though. The guns are there and they're not going away any time soon. If if the government enacted a politically suicidal comprehensive ban it'd be almost impossible to implement.

[grumbledoak]

Wow, there are downsides to gun ownership? We almost never hear about the downsides of gun ownership here in the UK.

Oh wait, that other thing...



A tragic, if mildly funny, accident, surely? And how many people did the NHS kill last year?

[John145]

onyx39 said:

Mr Trophy said:

hairykrishna said:

Soov535 said:

We live in a society where all the bad people have guns, and the good people have "never held a gun".

How safe are you feeling?

Actually we live in a society where only a very small fraction of the bad people have a gun.

We've also been brought up in a society to believe that "guns are bad"

That's because we invariably only hear about them when they have been used for bad (or in this case tragic) situations.

When can a gun story be good?

[williamp]

i know its bad, but i cant help thinking of this from the day today:

http://youtu.be/1sxZ4tsp8gc

but seriously, america. seriously??

[scherzkeks]

John145 said:

Perfectly safe! I managed to go to university for 4 years without once wondering if there would be a mad student who decides to shoot the place up. I guess that isn't possible in the USA!

Well, I'd put the school shootings down to a combination of things. Easy access to firearms is one, but it is true that guns technically don't kill, people do. The breakdown of social fabric is a greater issue. A society that prides itself on hustling, materialism, narcissism, and the mythos that all you have (or don't have)was earned by you and you alone breeds unhappy, vicious, and non-empathetic/sympathetic individuals.

[Nom de ploom]

grumbledoak said:

Wow, there are downsides to gun ownership? We almost never hear about the downsides of gun ownership here in the UK.

Oh wait, that other thing...



A tragic, if mildly funny, accident, surely? And how many people did the NHS kill last year?

However "the NHS" killed people last year i'm 100% certain it wasn't with a gun - what's your point?

[JonRB]

John145 said:

When can a gun story be good?

When we won Olympic Gold medals in shooting events? That's a good gun story.

[Soov535]

JonRB said:

John145 said:

When can a gun story be good?

When we won Olympic Gold medals in shooting events? That's a good gun story.

And one you'll never hear from the lefty media.

[mackie1]

Guam said:

The point is though we don't expect kids to do everything right do we, in this instance the child was at a professional facility with a skilled instructor and it still went terribly wrong.

Thats the point surely?

This particular incident was not the child's fault at all and it's crazy that she was put in that situation. However just because this happened doesn't mean all children should be not able to pursue shooting as a sport/hobby all the time. Like I mentioned earlier, Amber Hill started when she was 9 and she's a world class skeet shooter at 16. The shooting culture is this country is very different from the USA however. In the UK they'd probably start off with a .22 target rifle or a 410 shotgun, not a sub machine gun or a .44 magnum (as per the documentary a few weeks back).

[croyde]

A short barrelled SMG on full auto in the hands of a little girl, what could possibly go wrong.

I am not entirely anti-gun, I own a few air weapons for target shooting and would like to get on a range in the US one day but if I ever do, I'll be pretty concerned if there are any kids near me having a go.

Tragic for the poor instructor and all the people involved

[mackie1]

Soov535 said:

And one you'll never hear from the lefty media.

Sometimes you do:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/sports-personality/25...

I'm sure I heard something about shooting event tickets not being available on the "free tickets for school children" scheme though.

[IainT]

Efbe said:

do kids learn to drive at 9? use power tools? use a chainsaw? Operate a deep fat fryer?

At that age my grandfather taught me safe and proper use of:

• soldering iron
• Hand Plane
• Wood chisels
• Saws
• Circular saw (table mounted)
• Wood and metal lathes

He always taught from a safety perspective and then correct use and how to maintain the tools. Always supervised and always controlled.

That's my main issue with the incident here - sheer lack of good judgement by the trainer which he paid a huge price for. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with teaching a child to fire a gun but it's got to be done as safely as possible. I can see why American parents would want to teach their children safe use of a gun and proper respect for them given their wide availability over there.

[croyde]

I'm sure Jim Beaux can correct me but I thought that civilians were not allowed fully auto weapons in the US thus the little girl didn't need training on one.

Fully auto is for the military and police and 'fun' on various ranges, including Eastern Europe.

[jdw100]

Soov535 said:

And one you'll never hear from the lefty media.

Yeah, bloody lefty BBC, they tried to cover up this story by publishing it on their globally viewed news website. The commies!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/olympics/18911651

As for the Guardian - how dare they try to conceal this news by writing this congratulatory article:

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2012/aug/02/peter...

Lefty media conspiracy bds!!

Edited by jdw100 on Wednesday 27th August 12:51

[mackie1]

croyde said:

I'm sure Jim Beaux can correct me but I thought that civilians were not allowed fully auto weapons in the US thus the little girl didn't need training on one.

Fully auto is for the military and police and 'fun' on various ranges, including Eastern Europe.

Perfectly legal to own but very expensive due to very limited supply. A basic M16 can cost $15k+ I think.
This was clearly a "have a go" range and not a serious training session.

[croyde]

mackie1 said:

Perfectly legal to own but very expensive due to very limited supply. A basic M16 can cost $15k+ I think.
This was clearly a "have a go" range and not a serious training session.

Crumbs! That has gotta be some mark up considering a quality .22 semi or a .223 single shot AR is about £1500 here in the UK and a .22 can be had for as little as £500.

[hairykrishna]

croyde said:

I'm sure Jim Beaux can correct me but I thought that civilians were not allowed fully auto weapons in the US

There's a grandfather clause for guns that were registered pre ban (1986 IRC). These are obviously hugely expensive these days due to the limited supply. I don't know about new ones - there are probably some extremely restrictive exemptions, just like there are here.

[jdw100]

'Arizona law prohibits minors from possessing a firearm unless they are accompanied by a parent, guardian or an instructor, among other exceptions. Deputies said the 9-year-old girl was at the shooting range with her parents.'

'McCabe told the Las Vegas Review-Journal that no citations will be issued nor charges filed against the shooting range.'

'Arizona Last Stop is a roughly 30-acre property in the Mohave desert, which creates a “Desert Storm” atmosphere for shooters, their websites says.'

I think that last quote kind of sums up the mentality of it all. However I'm amazed that no action is to be taken against the shooting-range! How about closing it until it can be proven safe for customers and staff?

[audidoody]

grumbledoak said:

Wow, there are downsides to gun ownership? We almost never hear about the downsides of gun ownership here in the UK.

Oh wait, that other thing...



A tragic, if mildly funny, accident, surely? And how many people did the NHS kill last year?

NHS? Relevance? Washing machines can kill as well you know ...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2067195/Bo...

[JonRB]

croyde said:

mackie1 said:

Perfectly legal to own but very expensive due to very limited supply. A basic M16 can cost $15k+ I think.
This was clearly a "have a go" range and not a serious training session.

Crumbs! That has gotta be some mark up considering a quality .22 semi or a .223 single shot AR is about £1500 here in the UK and a .22 can be had for as little as £500.

A quick google suggests that mackie1 is correct, and the reason they are so expensive is due to very limited supply and very high tax.

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090...