Tory MP defection.
Discussion
Gaspode said:
turbobloke said:
My view...it's not imminent, so while the chances are small at the moment, they're not zero.
Possibly the most practical definition of eurozone collapse is when the drones in charge run out of illegal as well as legal means of keeping it from collapsing, and one or more country in dire straits breaks loose in a messy way with resulting eurochaos.
How is the ECB acting illegally?Possibly the most practical definition of eurozone collapse is when the drones in charge run out of illegal as well as legal means of keeping it from collapsing, and one or more country in dire straits breaks loose in a messy way with resulting eurochaos.
league67 said:
No, he has defected, as a tory he was merely a DC stooge to the point that nobody knew about him till about 3 days ago, and the cleansing process that is performed on all politicians who decide to join UKIP is the proof that he's now not just principled, most honest politician ever but one who'll never pander to local demographics. Saying things 'like unsustainable strain on local NHS caused by immigration' in area like Clacton, is the proof. That strain would never be caused by, I don't know, his target audience, it's always someone else's fault. It's just another 'msm' conspiracy.
Sorry but you are completely wrong. Carswell has never been a DC stooge - he has voted against the Government over 60 times. He is pretty well known outside the Westminster clique and has a reputation for wanting smaller Government and more power devolved to a more local level, MPs to become more accountable to their constituents as well as his more well known EU views.He is my MP and regardless of the rights & wrongs of his decision made on Thursday,he has a lot of local support linked to him personally regardless of the Party he now represents.
cranford10 said:
league67 said:
No, he has defected, as a tory he was merely a DC stooge to the point that nobody knew about him till about 3 days ago, and the cleansing process that is performed on all politicians who decide to join UKIP is the proof that he's now not just principled, most honest politician ever but one who'll never pander to local demographics. Saying things 'like unsustainable strain on local NHS caused by immigration' in area like Clacton, is the proof. That strain would never be caused by, I don't know, his target audience, it's always someone else's fault. It's just another 'msm' conspiracy.
Sorry but you are completely wrong. Carswell has never been a DC stooge - he has voted against the Government over 60 times. He is pretty well known outside the Westminster clique and has a reputation for wanting smaller Government and more power devolved to a more local level, MPs to become more accountable to their constituents as well as his more well known EU views.cranford10 said:
He is my MP and regardless of the rights & wrongs of his decision made on Thursday,he has a lot of local support linked to him personally regardless of the Party he now represents.
And yes, someone who is blaming immigration for impact on NHS in the area like Clacton, is exploiting abject stupidity of intended target audience, who can't be told that they are, themselves, much bigger strain on local NHS.
cranford10 said:
He is my MP and regardless of the rights & wrongs of his decision made on Thursday,he has a lot of local support linked to him personally regardless of the Party he now represents.
As Derek Smith reminded me yesterday, pedantry matters 
Right at this moment he has resigned as an MP so he isn't representing anybody. He is very likely to be the UKIP candidate in a forthcoming by election, but currently no more than that.
Unless, of course, the conservatives manage to prevaricate so much that they never actually get around to calling a by election in Clacton (it is their prerogative over when to hold it as you know), and leave the seat vacant until the GE.
That way, Carswell is denied his potential moment of glory and would probably have a much harder job to get elected next May. That's not to say he won't, of course, just that it wouldn't be as easy and he wouldn't get the mass media coverage that he's likely to get in a by election.
I know which way I'd be playing this if I were DC
rs1952 said:
cranford10 said:
He is my MP and regardless of the rights & wrongs of his decision made on Thursday,he has a lot of local support linked to him personally regardless of the Party he now represents.
As Derek Smith reminded me yesterday, pedantry matters Right at this moment he has resigned as an MP so he isn't representing anybody. He is very likely to be the UKIP candidate in a forthcoming by election, but currently no more than that.
Unless, of course, the conservatives manage to prevaricate so much that they never actually get around to calling a by election in Clacton (it is their prerogative over when to hold it as you know), and leave the seat vacant until the GE.
That way, Carswell is denied his potential moment of glory and would probably have a much harder job to get elected next May. That's not to say he won't, of course, just that it wouldn't be as easy and he wouldn't get the mass media coverage that he's likely to get in a by election.
I know which way I'd be playing this if I were DC
league67 said:
No, he has defected, as a tory he was merely a DC stooge to the point that nobody knew about him till about 3 days ago, and the cleansing process that is performed on all politicians who decide to join UKIP is the proof that he's now not just principled, most honest politician ever but one who'll never pander to local demographics. Saying things 'like unsustainable strain on local NHS caused by immigration' in area like Clacton, is the proof. That strain would never be caused by, I don't know, his target audience, it's always someone else's fault. It's just another 'msm' conspiracy.
Carswell: "Why doesn't the PM give me a job?"Chief whip: "Eh?"
Carswell: "I've been in parliament 9 years now and my talents have yet to be recognized"
Chief whip: "Yeah but Dougie, you're a nutter"
Carswell: "So no chance then?"
Chief whip: "Of course not you swivel eyed whack job"
Carswell: "No option then, I'll have to do something to draw attention to myself"
unrepentant said:
league67 said:
No, he has defected, as a tory he was merely a DC stooge to the point that nobody knew about him till about 3 days ago, and the cleansing process that is performed on all politicians who decide to join UKIP is the proof that he's now not just principled, most honest politician ever but one who'll never pander to local demographics. Saying things 'like unsustainable strain on local NHS caused by immigration' in area like Clacton, is the proof. That strain would never be caused by, I don't know, his target audience, it's always someone else's fault. It's just another 'msm' conspiracy.
Carswell: "Why doesn't the PM give me a job?"Chief whip: "Eh?"
Carswell: "I've been in parliament 9 years now and my talents have yet to be recognized"
Chief whip: "Yeah but Dougie, you're a nutter"
Carswell: "So no chance then?"
Chief whip: "Of course not you swivel eyed whack job"
Carswell: "No option then, I'll have to do something to draw attention to myself"
schmunk said:
dandarez said:
Oh christ, don't bother, the penny's dropped.
'Real estate'.
Oh and to add, 'aging and white' describes most of the UK, not just Clacton and Frinton.
Jeez!
If Unrepentant won't bite, I will. 'My area' is staunch Conservative (although I am not) but the BNP only registered 1% in the 2010 General Election. It is not 'that sort of area'.'Real estate'.
Oh and to add, 'aging and white' describes most of the UK, not just Clacton and Frinton.
Jeez!
For reference, the national average was 1.9%.
At nigh-on 5%, Clacton is 'that sort of area'.
My area isn't at all, because it registered ZILCH for the BNP.
And just out of interest, all this it's 'that sort of area' pointed at Clacton, I thought I'd look up BNP's full record at the last General Election.
Sheesh, nearly a quarter of all the BNP candidates standing saved their deposits!
The national average you quoted above of 1.9% is indeed correct, but 73 BNP candidates polled 5% or more.
That can only mean one thing, there must be a good number of what you term 'that sort of area'.
Don't look over your shoulder.
turbobloke said:
rs1952 said:
cranford10 said:
He is my MP and regardless of the rights & wrongs of his decision made on Thursday,he has a lot of local support linked to him personally regardless of the Party he now represents.
As Derek Smith reminded me yesterday, pedantry matters Right at this moment he has resigned as an MP so he isn't representing anybody. He is very likely to be the UKIP candidate in a forthcoming by election, but currently no more than that.
Unless, of course, the conservatives manage to prevaricate so much that they never actually get around to calling a by election in Clacton (it is their prerogative over when to hold it as you know), and leave the seat vacant until the GE.
That way, Carswell is denied his potential moment of glory and would probably have a much harder job to get elected next May. That's not to say he won't, of course, just that it wouldn't be as easy and he wouldn't get the mass media coverage that he's likely to get in a by election.
I know which way I'd be playing this if I were DC
"Well, Mr TV interviewer, no party is likely to want to fight a by election during the conference season, are they? So we are thinking that it will be better for all parties if we wait until the conferences are over"
"Yes, Mr TV interviewer, the conference season is now over but the Iran/ Iraq/ Syria/ Israel-Palestine conflict (add global flashpoint to taste) is just about to kick off again, and all parties need to work together to decide the UK's response to the crisis. Let me be quite clear - now is not a good time for any of the political parties to be distracted by a by election"
"Yes Mr TV interviewer, the immediate crisis in wherever it was has passed, but as you know the terrorist threat is at one of the highest levels that we have. No political party would be willing to devote precious time to a by election at this time of crisis for the country"
"Yes Mr TV interviewer, the terrorist crisis has passed but we are now in the depths of winter and there might be a very unsatisfactorily low turnout. None of our political parties will want to send their troops on the ground out canvassing in this weather, so we are clear in our minds that this is not the time for a by election"
"Yes Mr TV interviewer, the conference season is over and the whichever conflict it was has sorted itself out, and the terrorist threat has subsided and the birds are singing in the trees because Spring is here. But there'll be a general election in May anyway so it would be an extravagant irrelevance to hold a by election with only a few weeks of this parliament left to run"
It's not rocket science...
league67 said:
schmunk said:
league67 said:
Also having 'United States' in his profile might be a clue, unless your eyesight, or comprehension ability, is failing.
Neither. It's because I'm not such a nosy t
t to look at his profile before posting.unrepentant said:
Atlee and Thatcher are probably the two most important PM's of the 20th Century and their premierships both ushered in huge change. Things had to change post war and they did with the advent of the welfare state and the NHS. Considering that he was able to do everything that he needed to do whilst dealing with a terrible economy and the sudden end of lend-lease and all that entailed Atlee was a remarkable PM in my opinion.
By the same token Thatcher took over a country that was in dire straits with union power at extraordinary levels and 29 million working days being lost to strikes in the year of her election. She of course crushed them and by the end of her tenure trade union membership had fallen by a 3rd and their powers severely curtailed. Her "extremism" came after the '83 election with the mass privatisation of British industry and the poll tax. had it not been for the Falklands war none of that may have happened as she would almost certainly have been a one term PM.
That was pretty much my point. But they won those elections not by being "middle of the road" but by standing for something that resonated with people. It's not so much that the Tories need to "lurch to the right" but it seems people want more from (small c) conservatives than competent economic management and the odd populist sop on immigration or the EU. By the same token Thatcher took over a country that was in dire straits with union power at extraordinary levels and 29 million working days being lost to strikes in the year of her election. She of course crushed them and by the end of her tenure trade union membership had fallen by a 3rd and their powers severely curtailed. Her "extremism" came after the '83 election with the mass privatisation of British industry and the poll tax. had it not been for the Falklands war none of that may have happened as she would almost certainly have been a one term PM.
I don't believe that the Conservative party can get out of this just by adopting bits of UKIP policy. Even the central one. UKIP offers a sort of engagement that the main stream parties can't come close to. It is easily derided as "man in the pub" stuff but from a representative democracy point of view that's exactly what politicians should sound like - ordinary people with opinions formed by experience. In contrast Cameron, like most of them, sounds like some sort of colonial governor in an outpost of a dying empire. He's learned quite well to say the right things, make the odd gesture that appeases the natives and take his shoes off before entering the temple, yet his values are obscure and he stands for nothing beyond being marginaly better than Labour.
It's not a class thing per se, at least not in the traditional toffs and peasants sense. But like left and right that frame of reference seems a bit redundant now. Rather his "class" is that of professional politicians who are more interested in political machinations and their careers than in any ideas or principles they believe would make the country better. Because of this it always seems to me that he is holding something back. More like a conjurer than a democratic leader. Blair was the same though a bit better at it.
This sort of thing works in backwards imperial outposts where matches inspired awe and it worked in the mid 20th century when nuclear armed men in Whitehall knew best. I don't think it washes at the moment. The "experts" have got it wrong too often and on too great a scale.
I believe UKIPs real trump card is not that they have an amiable leader or that they jump on every popular bandwagon, but that they don't have this restraint or this condescension. If EU treaties prevent us having the immigration policy we want then tell us that and we'll weigh up whether the treaty is still worth it. Ditto climate change, HS2 etc etc. People have so much information at their finger tips now and won't so readily believe the say so of those who place themselves on high.
AJS- said:
unrepentant said:
Atlee and Thatcher are probably the two most important PM's of the 20th Century and their premierships both ushered in huge change. Things had to change post war and they did with the advent of the welfare state and the NHS. Considering that he was able to do everything that he needed to do whilst dealing with a terrible economy and the sudden end of lend-lease and all that entailed Atlee was a remarkable PM in my opinion.
By the same token Thatcher took over a country that was in dire straits with union power at extraordinary levels and 29 million working days being lost to strikes in the year of her election. She of course crushed them and by the end of her tenure trade union membership had fallen by a 3rd and their powers severely curtailed. Her "extremism" came after the '83 election with the mass privatisation of British industry and the poll tax. had it not been for the Falklands war none of that may have happened as she would almost certainly have been a one term PM.
That was pretty much my point. But they won those elections not by being "middle of the road" but by standing for something that resonated with people. It's not so much that the Tories need to "lurch to the right" but it seems people want more from (small c) conservatives than competent economic management and the odd populist sop on immigration or the EU. By the same token Thatcher took over a country that was in dire straits with union power at extraordinary levels and 29 million working days being lost to strikes in the year of her election. She of course crushed them and by the end of her tenure trade union membership had fallen by a 3rd and their powers severely curtailed. Her "extremism" came after the '83 election with the mass privatisation of British industry and the poll tax. had it not been for the Falklands war none of that may have happened as she would almost certainly have been a one term PM.
I don't believe that the Conservative party can get out of this just by adopting bits of UKIP policy. Even the central one. UKIP offers a sort of engagement that the main stream parties can't come close to. It is easily derided as "man in the pub" stuff but from a representative democracy point of view that's exactly what politicians should sound like - ordinary people with opinions formed by experience. In contrast Cameron, like most of them, sounds like some sort of colonial governor in an outpost of a dying empire. He's learned quite well to say the right things, make the odd gesture that appeases the natives and take his shoes off before entering the temple, yet his values are obscure and he stands for nothing beyond being marginaly better than Labour.
It's not a class thing per se, at least not in the traditional toffs and peasants sense. But like left and right that frame of reference seems a bit redundant now. Rather his "class" is that of professional politicians who are more interested in political machinations and their careers than in any ideas or principles they believe would make the country better. Because of this it always seems to me that he is holding something back. More like a conjurer than a democratic leader. Blair was the same though a bit better at it.
This sort of thing works in backwards imperial outposts where matches inspired awe and it worked in the mid 20th century when nuclear armed men in Whitehall knew best. I don't think it washes at the moment. The "experts" have got it wrong too often and on too great a scale.
I believe UKIPs real trump card is not that they have an amiable leader or that they jump on every popular bandwagon, but that they don't have this restraint or this condescension. If EU treaties prevent us having the immigration policy we want then tell us that and we'll weigh up whether the treaty is still worth it. Ditto climate change, HS2 etc etc. People have so much information at their finger tips now and won't so readily believe the say so of those who place themselves on high.
and very well put.
I have just watched all the creeps at the EU summit.
No wonder so many want OUT of the EU, me included.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28989875
No wonder so many want OUT of the EU, me included.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28989875
"Poll suggests Ukip set for big win in Clacton by-election
Ukip look set to win the Clacton by-election convincingly, according to a new poll.
The by-election follows the decision by MP Douglas Carswell to defect from the Conservatives to Nigel Farage's party.
The Survation poll for the Mail on Sunday has Ukip on 64%, way ahead of the Tories on 20%, with Labour on 13% and the Lib Dems on just 2%."
http://www.itv.com/news/story/2014-08-30/nigel-far...
Ukip look set to win the Clacton by-election convincingly, according to a new poll.
The by-election follows the decision by MP Douglas Carswell to defect from the Conservatives to Nigel Farage's party.
The Survation poll for the Mail on Sunday has Ukip on 64%, way ahead of the Tories on 20%, with Labour on 13% and the Lib Dems on just 2%."
http://www.itv.com/news/story/2014-08-30/nigel-far...
dandarez said:
I have just watched all the creeps at the EU summit.
No wonder so many want OUT of the EU, me included.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28989875
Vlad's a ladies man; perhaps this new foreign affairs spokeswoman will be able to talk him round given she's easier on the eye than Ashton? No wonder so many want OUT of the EU, me included.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28989875
DJRC said:
Simples...leave seat empty till GE. Bugger Cars well and bugger the electorate.
Who in turn will bugger CMD; he's fked whichever way he does it, as he's going to look like the desultory tt that he is. iScotland is suddenly looking much more attractive now Forrest Gump is going to be the next PM. Edited by hidetheelephants on Sunday 31st August 05:03
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