Police and Crime Commisioners Wow Just Wow
Discussion
V8 Fettler said:
You say "need layers of management", I say "need efficient management".
You need layers, but yes, efficient ones. They aren’t mutually exclusive. V8 Fettler said:
What do you think has been happening in the private sector for decades? The profit imperative drives efficiency.
Assuming reductions lead to efficiency. There’s a threshold where it does more harm than good. All you end up doing is taking the work one manager did, and passing it down to the next. Sometimes this is wholly appropriate and the then non-existent manager can be lived without, other times it’s detrimental. People are very quick to think easy savings can be achieved by culling senior posts. If you ask any Inspector who has had a good length in the rank, they’ll tell you they’re doing the work of what used to be the Chief Inspector. The same answer would come from a Chief Inspector; they are Superintendents in all but name (and pay!). Essentially, the same has happened in the police, they’ve got rid of who they don’t need over the years, even when funding was good. There is no luxury of time and space at senior ranks. I know no one who occupies a senior rank who works fewer than 60-80 hours per week.
It’s also worth mentioning the senior non-ACPO three (CI, Supt and C.Supt) have their unique roles and responsibilities e.g. PACE cover and other statutory authorisations and responsibilities. You can’t get away from what, in law, a rank has the power and responsibility to do. That’s one unique aspect of policing. In addition they will manage critical incidents, be SIOs, firearms and public order commanders. They occupy the silver and sometimes gold levels of the command structure for events and spontaneous incidents. These aren’t negotiable roles and responsibilities.
Ultimately, there are 20% central cuts to an organisation that spends over 80% of its budget on staff. If there were any fat, you can be sure it's gone or nearly all gone by now.
La Liga said:
You need layers, but yes, efficient ones. They aren’t mutually exclusive.
Just hard to find? 
La Liga said:
I know no one who occupies a senior rank who works fewer than 60-80 hours per week.
Isn't that against the Working Time Directive?La Liga said:
If there were any fat, you can be sure it's gone or nearly all gone by now.
In today's news:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/pol...
Not 'fat', but certainly wasted money.
La Liga said:
V8 Fettler said:
You say "need layers of management", I say "need efficient management".
You need layers, but yes, efficient ones. They aren’t mutually exclusive. V8 Fettler said:
What do you think has been happening in the private sector for decades? The profit imperative drives efficiency.
Assuming reductions lead to efficiency. There’s a threshold where it does more harm than good. All you end up doing is taking the work one manager did, and passing it down to the next. Sometimes this is wholly appropriate and the then non-existent manager can be lived without, other times it’s detrimental. People are very quick to think easy savings can be achieved by culling senior posts. If you ask any Inspector who has had a good length in the rank, they’ll tell you they’re doing the work of what used to be the Chief Inspector. The same answer would come from a Chief Inspector; they are Superintendents in all but name (and pay!). Essentially, the same has happened in the police, they’ve got rid of who they don’t need over the years, even when funding was good. There is no luxury of time and space at senior ranks. I know no one who occupies a senior rank who works fewer than 60-80 hours per week.
It’s also worth mentioning the senior non-ACPO three (CI, Supt and C.Supt) have their unique roles and responsibilities e.g. PACE cover and other statutory authorisations and responsibilities. You can’t get away from what, in law, a rank has the power and responsibility to do. That’s one unique aspect of policing. In addition they will manage critical incidents, be SIOs, firearms and public order commanders. They occupy the silver and sometimes gold levels of the command structure for events and spontaneous incidents. These aren’t negotiable roles and responsibilities.
Ultimately, there are 20% central cuts to an organisation that spends over 80% of its budget on staff. If there were any fat, you can be sure it's gone or nearly all gone by now.
V8 Fettler said:
Yet the reality is that South Yorks plod send 7 people in 5 cars down to Berkshire to search an ageing pop star's residence, how can that possibly be an efficient use of resources?
A proper house search takes quite a few people. 7 for a house of that size isn't many. Small items can be hidden anywhere. Even if it were too many resources, which it were not, what difference does one investigation out of the 10s of thousands they do each year make? Even if you sent 2 or 3 (or whatever number you're happy with), it'd just take longer so the same net officer time would be spent.
V8 Fettler said:
Dismantle the little insular empires and that wouldn't happen.
I have no idea which empires you refer. A complaint was made and the information met the threshold for a warrant. This wasn't self-generated demand. Someone approached the police. Do they not treat it the same as any other because it involves someone famous? There's a fair bit of suggestion other famous people were able to get away with abuse because the authorities did just that. I also think that certain Constabulary shows what can happen when sexual offence complaints are ignored. Are you suggesting they ignored this one? What justification would they have had in doing so? La Liga said:
V8 Fettler said:
Yet the reality is that South Yorks plod send 7 people in 5 cars down to Berkshire to search an ageing pop star's residence, how can that possibly be an efficient use of resources?
A proper house search takes quite a few people. 7 for a house of that size isn't many. Small items can be hidden anywhere. Even if it were too many resources, which it were not, what difference does one investigation out of the 10s of thousands they do each year make? Even if you sent 2 or 3 (or whatever number you're happy with), it'd just take longer so the same net officer time would be spent.
V8 Fettler said:
Dismantle the little insular empires and that wouldn't happen.
I have no idea which empires you refer. A complaint was made and the information met the threshold for a warrant. This wasn't self-generated demand. Someone approached the police. Do they not treat it the same as any other because it involves someone famous? There's a fair bit of suggestion other famous people were able to get away with abuse because the authorities did just that. I also think that certain Constabulary shows what can happen when sexual offence complaints are ignored. Are you suggesting they ignored this one? What justification would they have had in doing so? To be fair we can all identify little insular empires with cronies following a senior person around in all sectors, private and public.
From personal experience CEO arrives, brings HR crony with him. Use contacts to find out their modus operandi from previous appointments, learn that it all went tits up after they had departed with nice bonus etc. See them working the same scam. Negotiate a nice deal to leave. In my case a very nice deal.
From personal experience CEO arrives, brings HR crony with him. Use contacts to find out their modus operandi from previous appointments, learn that it all went tits up after they had departed with nice bonus etc. See them working the same scam. Negotiate a nice deal to leave. In my case a very nice deal.
V8 Fettler said:
Why not 7 in one minibus? How many other insular little empires did South Yorks plod cross to get to Berks? Why didn't local Berks plod deal with it? Was it a different insular little empire?
Can you imagine how irritating it is when someone with no experience of police work can pick up the 'obvious' failings.I remember a book on the Bades in the Wood murders which criticised the police enquiry on so many levels that you would have thought that an author had organised it. One particular one, which great play was made, was using a detective to drive a car when there were so many traffic officers with nothing to do.
Whilst this was around 1986, even in those days economy was demanded and overtime was rationed. Mind you, at least it existed, unlike now. The SIO had a budget (on a double murder of two children under the age of 10) and had to work within it. He was a bit sharp and so used a DC who was involved in the case to save a little bit of money.
On costs are easy enough to understand. Yet here we had a frequently published author, with a number of books under his belt, could work out what every SIO can crack in a second.
So you want a minivan to be used. The logistics of this is not quite as simple as the simple might think. I could work through some of the likely problems but then I might try treacle bending.
But then, it takes so little thought to work it out that it shows laziness or, perhaps, bias.
I like the idea of the local police doing a search, at least if it wasn't my search team being used for a job based miles away. In this case there might well be a number of locations, perhaps half a dozen. The court case could then close search teams all over the country.
But don't let the idea that you know best stop you posting on the matter of inefficient police officers. It didn't stop the author I mentioned publishing a book 'proving' that Bishop was not guilty of the Babes in the Wood murder on the week that Bishop attempted to murder a 12-year-old using identical MO. He knew just how way off beam the enquiry was.
The police service is not perfect. But to suggest wanton waste just shows ignorance of police systems.
Derek Smith said:
Can you imagine how irritating it is when someone with no experience of police work can pick up the 'obvious' failings.
So you want a minivan to be used. The logistics of this is not quite as simple as the simple might think.
So why not use 2 of the five cars? If anything, this simplifies the logistics.So you want a minivan to be used. The logistics of this is not quite as simple as the simple might think.
http://www.ukcolumn.org/article/theresa-may-privat...
Matt Tapp sounds like he could be more dangerous than the average keyboard rattler.
Seems he is the PR guru used by South Yorks. Police.
I am not sure where that sits with the idea that the raid on the penthouse of Cliff Richard was a news management/spin operation?
I am not sure where his role sits with the injunctions taken out by those in public sector in South Yorks. wanting to keep the industrial scale sexual exploitation of minors under wraps?
Trouble is voting for Wallace to get May and the Tories gone wont change anything will it?
It is the Bill Hicks Marketing sketch. They are Satan's little helpers.
Matt Tapp sounds like he could be more dangerous than the average keyboard rattler.
Seems he is the PR guru used by South Yorks. Police.
I am not sure where that sits with the idea that the raid on the penthouse of Cliff Richard was a news management/spin operation?
I am not sure where his role sits with the injunctions taken out by those in public sector in South Yorks. wanting to keep the industrial scale sexual exploitation of minors under wraps?
Trouble is voting for Wallace to get May and the Tories gone wont change anything will it?
It is the Bill Hicks Marketing sketch. They are Satan's little helpers.
k up.
Derek Smith said:
Rovinghawk said:
So why not use 2 of the five cars? If anything, this simplifies the logistics.
Can't you work it out? Is it that difficult? Even my PCs could crack that.davepoth said:
Derek Smith said:
Rovinghawk said:
So why not use 2 of the five cars? If anything, this simplifies the logistics.
Can't you work it out? Is it that difficult? Even my PCs could crack that.And why did a Met officer call someone at the BBC and say 'Cliff Richard' for that BBC person to then call South Yorks. Police with just that name and be given the full low down of where to place the cameras to get the best shots?
Consdering the BBC aren't supposed to advertise, that raid on the apartment of Cliff Richard should have been sponsored by FoMoCo and Renault.
V8 Fettler said:
Why not 7 in one minibus? How many other insular little empires did South Yorks plod cross to get to Berks? Why didn't local Berks plod deal with it? Was it a different insular little empire?
It's their investigation for one thing. Secondly, you're only going to have to mess around with exhibit continuity, create more work / involve more people, involve more property stores and add greater complication by having a different force do it. There could be further search locations, there may be reasons to keep exhibits separate in different vehicles etc.La Liga said:
V8 Fettler said:
Why not 7 in one minibus? How many other insular little empires did South Yorks plod cross to get to Berks? Why didn't local Berks plod deal with it? Was it a different insular little empire?
It's their investigation for one thing. Secondly, you're only going to have to mess around with exhibit continuity, create more work / involve more people, involve more property stores and add greater complication by having a different force do it. There could be further search locations, there may be reasons to keep exhibits separate in different vehicles etc.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff