5 Year Old Cancer Patient Abducted By Parents From Hospital!
Discussion
creampuff said:
He was not abducted. Abducted means there was an illegal act. There is nothing whatsoever illegal about taking yourself or your minor age children out of hospital.
That depends, even leaving aside the situaion where an individual is detained under the Mental Health Act. In any situation regardling the absnce / abscontion / abduction of a in patient there are issues surrounding the duty of care of the organisation and individual Health professionals.
there are further complications with regard to mental cpacity and/or child proftection
creampuff said:
It is not the decision of the police or the NHS or the doctors if a patient should be forcibly detained in a hospital for compulsory treatment. We do not live in Nazi Germany where medical procedures are enforced on victims regardless of if they want it or not.
initially both Health Professionals and Police Officers have powers to ensure someome remains in a place of safety, however this needs to fairly quickly progress through to the courts via Mental Capacity / Deprivation of Liberties concerns.The concern with the lad in question is that the family appear to have taken him in a unplanned manner rather than in a planned manner where the feeding tube , feed pump , feeds, meds etc were organised and provided. At what point does a decision made by someone who is not fully approased of the clinical picture continue to be i nthe best interests of the patient ?
Bill said:
creampuff said:
Do YOU want the state telling you and your family what MUST happen to them in hospital and where you ALLOWED to go?
Shouldn't the police and hospital do their best for the child, and shouldn't that include protecting the child from poor decisions by the parents?if any inpatient goes missing from a hospital , it is policy and practice in every trust i've worked for that the opolice are informed / involved after following the initial steps ( e.g. check the unit, check the site, attempt to make contact by phone etc )
K77 CTR said:
Look up nutricia flocare infinity enteral pumps, that is the most likely pump he has, not the easiest charger to find. If his parents were just 'popping' off the ward the nurses most likely just unplugged the charger to prevent it getting lost.
Local police now think they could be in spain.
exactly Local police now think they could be in spain.
where if they had talked to the hospital aobut this properly a community or lease pump could have been organised along with the supply of feed etc etc etc ...
K77 CTR said:
Look up nutricia flocare infinity enteral pumps, that is the most likely pump he has, not the easiest charger to find. If his parents were just 'popping' off the ward the nurses most likely just unplugged the charger to prevent it getting lost.
Local police now think they could be in spain.
Looks like a perfectly ordinary mains cable to me...see http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Novartis-Compat-Go-Plus-...Local police now think they could be in spain.
Who knows what happened - maybe they are trying to find somewhere which can offer a different treatment and more hope - perhaps there is no hope and they would rather spend the last days together as a family, rather than surrounded by medical equipment in a hospital.
loafer123 said:
K77 CTR said:
Look up nutricia flocare infinity enteral pumps, that is the most likely pump he has, not the easiest charger to find. If his parents were just 'popping' off the ward the nurses most likely just unplugged the charger to prevent it getting lost.
Local police now think they could be in spain.
Looks like a perfectly ordinary mains cable to me...see http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Novartis-Compat-Go-Plus-...Local police now think they could be in spain.
Who knows what happened - maybe they are trying to find somewhere which can offer a different treatment and more hope - perhaps there is no hope and they would rather spend the last days together as a family, rather than surrounded by medical equipment in a hospital.
loafer123 said:
Who knows what happened - maybe they are trying to find somewhere which can offer a different treatment and more hope - perhaps there is no hope and they would rather spend the last days together as a family, rather than surrounded by medical equipment in a hospital.
Ultimatley it may come to a question of whether a child who is terminal should be looked after the way the medical professionals want or the way their parents want - if this carries on for a while no doubt the law will be clarified somewhat.Mojooo said:
loafer123 said:
Who knows what happened - maybe they are trying to find somewhere which can offer a different treatment and more hope - perhaps there is no hope and they would rather spend the last days together as a family, rather than surrounded by medical equipment in a hospital.
Ultimatley it may come to a question of whether a child who is terminal should be looked after the way the medical professionals want or the way their parents want - if this carries on for a while no doubt the law will be clarified somewhat.It is to the credit of many PH'ers that they are very uncomfortable how this is being reported. I am too.
Whilst modern medical intervention is superb-at some point, someone must say 'this is enough'. Myself? I would fight for every last breath, wired to everything, just for that single, last chance of hope. I love life.
However, if that final hope went and i knew the end was coming....
I've been privileged to be with a couple of people in their final moments and I can assure you, their final words were not 'can I stay in Hospital?'
They wanted to go home. As I would. Take the drips and needles and stents out. Switch off the bright lights and silence.
Put me in my warm bed with those whom I Love around me. Let me hear them talk. Let me enjoy my last moments as if I was just falling asleep.
Good for the parents I say.
Bless them all.
Whilst modern medical intervention is superb-at some point, someone must say 'this is enough'. Myself? I would fight for every last breath, wired to everything, just for that single, last chance of hope. I love life.
However, if that final hope went and i knew the end was coming....
I've been privileged to be with a couple of people in their final moments and I can assure you, their final words were not 'can I stay in Hospital?'
They wanted to go home. As I would. Take the drips and needles and stents out. Switch off the bright lights and silence.
Put me in my warm bed with those whom I Love around me. Let me hear them talk. Let me enjoy my last moments as if I was just falling asleep.
Good for the parents I say.
Bless them all.
I should't really be surprised but the stuff the hospital are saying about the feeding pump really is weapons grade b
ks. Assuming they had the sense to release a photo of the right kind of pump, it's a Nutricia Flocare Infinity pump which is ABSOLUTELY designed to run off batteries, it's an absolutely standard issue pump in the community where users can have it running in a backpack for 12 hours every day and just plug it in to charge overnight, much like a mobile phone. It has a runtime of approximately 12 hours at a rate of 125ml/hour. You can't buy a spare charger for it in an ordinary shop but families accumulate spares and they're generally shared freely when needed - if someone had emailed a group I'm on for kids with brain injuries and said they'd gone on holiday but forgot the pump charger, about 12 people would have offered to post them one immediately! But you don't have to have a pump to put stuff down a feeding tube: you can both modify the milk bag from the pump so it'll drip in under gravity (people are shown how to do this in case of extended power cut or equipment failure and tutorials are easy to find online - some people do it as their primary and preferred feeding method), but you can also just use a big syringe with the right end/adaptor and these are really very easy indeed to come by too - you can buy them online, they're also standard across the world, and there would likely have been handfuls sitting around in his hospital room.
I hope the little soul is comfortable and having needs met.
ks. Assuming they had the sense to release a photo of the right kind of pump, it's a Nutricia Flocare Infinity pump which is ABSOLUTELY designed to run off batteries, it's an absolutely standard issue pump in the community where users can have it running in a backpack for 12 hours every day and just plug it in to charge overnight, much like a mobile phone. It has a runtime of approximately 12 hours at a rate of 125ml/hour. You can't buy a spare charger for it in an ordinary shop but families accumulate spares and they're generally shared freely when needed - if someone had emailed a group I'm on for kids with brain injuries and said they'd gone on holiday but forgot the pump charger, about 12 people would have offered to post them one immediately! But you don't have to have a pump to put stuff down a feeding tube: you can both modify the milk bag from the pump so it'll drip in under gravity (people are shown how to do this in case of extended power cut or equipment failure and tutorials are easy to find online - some people do it as their primary and preferred feeding method), but you can also just use a big syringe with the right end/adaptor and these are really very easy indeed to come by too - you can buy them online, they're also standard across the world, and there would likely have been handfuls sitting around in his hospital room.I hope the little soul is comfortable and having needs met.
It's worth listening to what the father has the say.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v...
zetec said:
The Police will be working for the child's best interest, these being in hospital and comfortable.
Fortunately aggressive do-gooders like yourself do not "trump" the rights of a child's parents.Broadly speaking, unless there's an "easy fix" for a childhood illness which the parents refuse to adopt, English law will not intervene. It takes the common sense approach that if parents want their child to die amongst the comforts of family rather than in a sterile hospital environment then that's exactly what they are entitled to do.
BlackLabel said:
It's worth listening to what the father has the say.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v...
Ooooh, very interesting! Child protection order threat eh? No wonder they left!https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v...
NHS. Envy of the world.
Hope somebody starts a fund. I'll give a donation ...now!
Edited by dandarez on Saturday 30th August 22:52
And this is the therapy he wants for his son.
http://scienceblog.cancerresearchuk.org/2013/09/16...
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proton_therapy
Sounds like a father who is just trying to do what is best for his boy. It's not as if he's taking him away to be treated by some quack. And if the father was willing to pay for it then the nhs should have worked with the family (provided MRIs, liaised with foreign hospitals etc) to facilitate the childs transfer overseas.
A sad story indeed!
http://scienceblog.cancerresearchuk.org/2013/09/16...
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proton_therapy
Sounds like a father who is just trying to do what is best for his boy. It's not as if he's taking him away to be treated by some quack. And if the father was willing to pay for it then the nhs should have worked with the family (provided MRIs, liaised with foreign hospitals etc) to facilitate the childs transfer overseas.
A sad story indeed!
Mojooo said:
Well, that adds another dimension to it.
Perhaps they coudl have released said statement earlier?
I do have some synmpathy for the Police as obviously they didn't know what was happening.
What should happen now is the question I spose.
I confess that when watching the police officer he seemed apprehensive about the arrest warrant and emphasised the safety and whereabouts of child was their paramount thoughts.Perhaps they coudl have released said statement earlier?
I do have some synmpathy for the Police as obviously they didn't know what was happening.
What should happen now is the question I spose.
This country, eh?
Those in charge - so trustworthy.
What next to shock us?
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