5 Year Old Cancer Patient Abducted By Parents From Hospital!
Discussion
After seeing the video of the Father and Boy and also the interview just now with the Mother of another lad that had to make the decision to take her Boy to America (i think) for Proton treatment, I think this will turn out very bad for our NHS!
Apparently our NHS already send a limited number of patients (20 per year) for Proton treatment - This is NOT "quackery" it seems. Good luck to this lad and his family.
Apparently our NHS already send a limited number of patients (20 per year) for Proton treatment - This is NOT "quackery" it seems. Good luck to this lad and his family.
As is typical for PH the powerfully built conflation machine is in full effect.
While Proton beam therapy is effective, we do not know if this is the case for the type and location of residual tumour in this case.
My comments with regard to quackery and woo were in relation to the pi ture being painted of other treatment options.
I also do wonder if Mr King has an u realistic expectation of the progress and prognosis of proton beam vs other treatment options. Regardless of the treatment options the prognosis and recovery rate and time from the Brain Injuries sustained as a result of the tumour and the surgical procedure is going to be highly variable.
Proton Beam is not going to magically give them their little boy back as he was pre tumour.
While Proton beam therapy is effective, we do not know if this is the case for the type and location of residual tumour in this case.
My comments with regard to quackery and woo were in relation to the pi ture being painted of other treatment options.
I also do wonder if Mr King has an u realistic expectation of the progress and prognosis of proton beam vs other treatment options. Regardless of the treatment options the prognosis and recovery rate and time from the Brain Injuries sustained as a result of the tumour and the surgical procedure is going to be highly variable.
Proton Beam is not going to magically give them their little boy back as he was pre tumour.
mph1977 said:
As is typical for PH the powerfully built conflation machine is in full effect.
While Proton beam therapy is effective, we do not know if this is the case for the type and location of residual tumour in this case.
My comments with regard to quackery and woo were in relation to the pi ture being painted of other treatment options.
I also do wonder if Mr King has an u realistic expectation of the progress and prognosis of proton beam vs other treatment options. Regardless of the treatment options the prognosis and recovery rate and time from the Brain Injuries sustained as a result of the tumour and the surgical procedure is going to be highly variable.
Proton Beam is not going to magically give them their little boy back as he was pre tumour.
And the state taking over his child and putting him into care while throwing the parents in jail is a better solutionWhile Proton beam therapy is effective, we do not know if this is the case for the type and location of residual tumour in this case.
My comments with regard to quackery and woo were in relation to the pi ture being painted of other treatment options.
I also do wonder if Mr King has an u realistic expectation of the progress and prognosis of proton beam vs other treatment options. Regardless of the treatment options the prognosis and recovery rate and time from the Brain Injuries sustained as a result of the tumour and the surgical procedure is going to be highly variable.
Proton Beam is not going to magically give them their little boy back as he was pre tumour.
McWigglebum4th said:
And the state taking over his child and putting him into care while throwing the parents in jail is a better solution
So you think it is acceptable to take a hospital in patient without the knowledge of the accountable clinicians.I don't know if he genuinely wasn't on any meds in hosoital -only the hospital will be able to confirm or refute that.
I wonder what the Kings' plan was should Aysha aspirate or have a seizure?
Unfortunately well intentioned but ill informed and not risk assessed decisions can and will call into question whether a course of action is in the best interests of a patient. As i have previously commented, especially given Mr King's anger he is very quiet about what the consultant who provided the as a right Second Independent Opinion said - if in deed they requested one after their decisuin to refuse to engage.
The Kings have been criminalized for not being rich enough.
If David Beckham's son had the same condition (God forbid) and he took him out of hospital, flew him in an air ambulance to Prague and got proton beam treatment, would he be criminalized?
The mum who appeared on Sky did exactly the same thing as the Kings but only difference was it looks like she had the funds ready. This is all about money. Whilst I dont expect the NHS to pay for everyones treatment abroad, parents with the means should be allowed to use alternatives. Doctors arent gods and children are not state property.
If David Beckham's son had the same condition (God forbid) and he took him out of hospital, flew him in an air ambulance to Prague and got proton beam treatment, would he be criminalized?
The mum who appeared on Sky did exactly the same thing as the Kings but only difference was it looks like she had the funds ready. This is all about money. Whilst I dont expect the NHS to pay for everyones treatment abroad, parents with the means should be allowed to use alternatives. Doctors arent gods and children are not state property.
mph1977 said:
I have seen the video and it does not change my view on the topic.
it's quite clear that Mr King has decided regardless of the actual clinical picture that proton beam treatment is a magic bullet.
He is obviously angry with the fact his son has had this diagnosis and has chosen to take it out on the Clinicians who are treating his son.
he also seems to have swallowed all the kooks and quackery that float about the Internet - there is a very good reason that patients are advised not avoid the internet for 'research' on conditions becasue of the amount of utter utter s
te that is put out by none credible sources.
Wow wow wowit's quite clear that Mr King has decided regardless of the actual clinical picture that proton beam treatment is a magic bullet.
He is obviously angry with the fact his son has had this diagnosis and has chosen to take it out on the Clinicians who are treating his son.
he also seems to have swallowed all the kooks and quackery that float about the Internet - there is a very good reason that patients are advised not avoid the internet for 'research' on conditions becasue of the amount of utter utter s
te that is put out by none credible sources. I find this entire story quite unsettling as a parent, and highlights the marked contrast between this story and the events in Rotherham, in regards to showing state over reaction and negligent inaction.
If this father is being arrested for removing his child from the hospital, in an attempt to get a valid medical treatment that the NHS is unable to offer, then surely the officials directly implicated in the Rotherham child abuse case, should suffer the same fate for wilful neglect ?
If this father is being arrested for removing his child from the hospital, in an attempt to get a valid medical treatment that the NHS is unable to offer, then surely the officials directly implicated in the Rotherham child abuse case, should suffer the same fate for wilful neglect ?
mph1977 said:
As is typical for PH the powerfully built conflation machine is in full effect.
While Proton beam therapy is effective, we do not know if this is the case for the type and location of residual tumour in this case.
My comments with regard to quackery and woo were in relation to the pi ture being painted of other treatment options.
I also do wonder if Mr King has an u realistic expectation of the progress and prognosis of proton beam vs other treatment options. Regardless of the treatment options the prognosis and recovery rate and time from the Brain Injuries sustained as a result of the tumour and the surgical procedure is going to be highly variable.
Proton Beam is not going to magically give them their little boy back as he was pre tumour.
Yes we do - it has been studied in trials in just this type of cancer, these are published studies. Your comments about quackery with respect to this case were completely ignorant. No-one within his family has suggested they want to pursue ''alternative'' therapies. Nor has he indicated that he has unrealistic expectations of therapy, he seems to know and understand that his child is suffering from Posteria Fossa syndrome following his surgery. I'm afraid you went in with both feet without bothering to familiarise yourself with this case and made a hell of a lot of assumptions, something you are continuing to do.While Proton beam therapy is effective, we do not know if this is the case for the type and location of residual tumour in this case.
My comments with regard to quackery and woo were in relation to the pi ture being painted of other treatment options.
I also do wonder if Mr King has an u realistic expectation of the progress and prognosis of proton beam vs other treatment options. Regardless of the treatment options the prognosis and recovery rate and time from the Brain Injuries sustained as a result of the tumour and the surgical procedure is going to be highly variable.
Proton Beam is not going to magically give them their little boy back as he was pre tumour.
mph1977 said:
So you think it is acceptable to take a hospital in patient without the knowledge of the accountable clinicians.
Taking this as a standalone principle - hell, yes.OK, there are a lot of issues to consider, but there is certainly no legal basis for hospital treatment per se (in the absence of, say, court orders, emergency child protection, or the Mental Health Act) as a form of lawful detention.
QuantumTokoloshi said:
I find this entire story quite unsettling as a parent, and highlights the marked contrast between this story and the events in Rotherham, in regards to showing state over reaction and negligent inaction.
If this father is being arrested for removing his child from the hospital, in an attempt to get a valid medical treatment that the NHS is unable to offer, then surely the officials directly implicated in the Rotherham child abuse case, should suffer the same fate for wilful neglect ?
I couldn't agree more. If this father is being arrested for removing his child from the hospital, in an attempt to get a valid medical treatment that the NHS is unable to offer, then surely the officials directly implicated in the Rotherham child abuse case, should suffer the same fate for wilful neglect ?
QuantumTokoloshi said:
then surely the officials directly implicated in the Rotherham child abuse case, should suffer the same fate for wilful neglect ?
I agreeAnd from page 1 of this thread
PorkInsider said:
but I would like to think that the relevant services are working in the child's best interests.
Well they didn't in Rotherham and elsewhereIt seems the "relevant" authorities/services have a habit of working in their own best interests and taking the 'easiest' course of action and burying things on many occasions
It's taking the press a while but it looks like they are finally realising how stupid they, the NHS and the police have looked during this.
From claims of the machine not being designed for running off batteries (turns out it is) to the NHS turning out to be a bit of a fascist operation 'do what we say or we will have a court order put against you even though you are well within your legal rights'.
Now articles phrased slightly differently.
Ashya King: 'No apology' over police response
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29003431
From claims of the machine not being designed for running off batteries (turns out it is) to the NHS turning out to be a bit of a fascist operation 'do what we say or we will have a court order put against you even though you are well within your legal rights'.
Now articles phrased slightly differently.
Ashya King: 'No apology' over police response
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29003431
Foppo said:
Parents arrested is the answer according to the authorities.
The more I see coppers on the television spouting their nonsense I despair.
They should have been more vigilant in Rotherham.
Going on a bit of bizarre and misleading public manhunt against a pair of Jehovah witnesses won't trigger public protests of extremists wielding signs saying 'behead those who insult Jehovah'. This is much more comfortable target for the police as they wont get accused of being racist by politically correct cuckolds that now fill the press.The more I see coppers on the television spouting their nonsense I despair.
They should have been more vigilant in Rotherham.
It is purely a matter of trust. There are many people that have bought into the conspiracy theories that global warming is a myth, that you can cure cancer with hemp, big pharma is bad in a whole number of imaginative ways, you can have free energy etc etc. on and on it goes. All typically involve claims that the establishment is covering up to protect vested interests. All rely on making people mistrust organisations or science or types of organisations.
Granted the proton beam treatment seems less kooky than some bogus claims out there. But the mechanics are the same. A breakdown in trust of the treating clinicians. Sadly leading to them thinking a complete withdrawal of all medical care was preferable. Remember, they did not run to a hospital with a proton beam device. They went to Malaga overland via France. From the video the Dad is clearly in denial of many facts and makes some dubious claims. Eg, the lad may be more alert because he is full of adrenaline from pain? Who knows? I'll tell you, doctors! Yes they make mistakes sometimes. But some doctors are always better than no doctors to a critically sick child.
Granted the proton beam treatment seems less kooky than some bogus claims out there. But the mechanics are the same. A breakdown in trust of the treating clinicians. Sadly leading to them thinking a complete withdrawal of all medical care was preferable. Remember, they did not run to a hospital with a proton beam device. They went to Malaga overland via France. From the video the Dad is clearly in denial of many facts and makes some dubious claims. Eg, the lad may be more alert because he is full of adrenaline from pain? Who knows? I'll tell you, doctors! Yes they make mistakes sometimes. But some doctors are always better than no doctors to a critically sick child.
technogogo said:
Granted the proton beam treatment seems less kooky than some bogus claims out there. But the mechanics are the same. A breakdown in trust of the treating clinicians. Sadly leading to them thinking a complete withdrawal of all medical care was preferable. Remember, they did not run to a hospital with a proton beam device..
All medical care was not withdrawn, the father planned to sell his house to pay for the proton treatment, which incidental the NHS does do for a couple of dozen patients a year. Their has been mixed reports so far but it seems to the big childrens hospital they were heading towards did off that treatment.Eclassy said:
The Kings have been criminalized for not being rich enough.
If David Beckham's son had the same condition (God forbid) and he took him out of hospital, flew him in an air ambulance to Prague and got proton beam treatment, would he be criminalized?
The mum who appeared on Sky did exactly the same thing as the Kings but only difference was it looks like she had the funds ready. This is all about money. Whilst I dont expect the NHS to pay for everyones treatment abroad, parents with the means should be allowed to use alternatives. Doctors arent gods and children are not state property.
Not money no. Preparation and timing. The Kings could have engaged medical care elsewhere and forced the NHS doctors to release the notes. Then, IF NECESSARY, made arrangement to transfer their child while still receiving medical care. They didn't. They thought they knew better than the doctors having read NEWS type stories about a complex medical technique. They took him to a cross channel port, drove through France, to get to Marbella. Famous centre of proton beam excellence. Not! Big difference and nothing to do with money.If David Beckham's son had the same condition (God forbid) and he took him out of hospital, flew him in an air ambulance to Prague and got proton beam treatment, would he be criminalized?
The mum who appeared on Sky did exactly the same thing as the Kings but only difference was it looks like she had the funds ready. This is all about money. Whilst I dont expect the NHS to pay for everyones treatment abroad, parents with the means should be allowed to use alternatives. Doctors arent gods and children are not state property.
Of course having a pot of money up front would make it easier. But that is always true and doesn't make the Kings actions less ridiculous.
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