PH referendum - Should Scotland be an independent country?
Poll: PH referendum - Should Scotland be an independent country?
Total Members Polled: 544
Discussion
"as you were"?
First you perpetuate the BS that Murphy may have been egged by private security or UK security services, all because a Yes site made a big deal out of a guy with an earpiece. When it was pointed out that the same site admitted it was a hoax that they were responsible for you ignored this.
Then you question why Murphy gets more media coverage than a Yes campaigner who was assaulted. When it's pointed out he was assaulted a year ago, not just recently as you imply, you try to make out you knew this all along.
Is it a coincidence then, that on other forums elsewhere, other Yes supporters also made comparisons in the last few days between Murphy being egged and this OAP being assaulted as if these events happened in the same timeframe?
First you perpetuate the BS that Murphy may have been egged by private security or UK security services, all because a Yes site made a big deal out of a guy with an earpiece. When it was pointed out that the same site admitted it was a hoax that they were responsible for you ignored this.
Then you question why Murphy gets more media coverage than a Yes campaigner who was assaulted. When it's pointed out he was assaulted a year ago, not just recently as you imply, you try to make out you knew this all along.
Is it a coincidence then, that on other forums elsewhere, other Yes supporters also made comparisons in the last few days between Murphy being egged and this OAP being assaulted as if these events happened in the same timeframe?
I live in England and voted no. That's not to say I want them to stay, they can do what they want, but if they become independant, then they have to be 100% independant.
No currency union, no shared passports, or what else Salmond wants to free load off us.
But, that is just never going to happen.
No currency union, no shared passports, or what else Salmond wants to free load off us.
But, that is just never going to happen.
pcvdriver]url said:
|http://thumbsnap.com/KvYqDHMl[/url]As you were Oakey....
Lets go by this one persons counter claim....who is a yes voter....with no evidence.
Right then...
Scottish born and bred. From a family of mixed Scots/Irish descent, mostly public sector workers or retired/ex-heavy industry (steel/coal). Apparently that makes me fit the 'yes' profile quite nicely.
Voting 'no' because I'm not willing to risk financial and political suicide. I don't want to jeopardise the friendship and many things we have in common with the rest of the UK for a pointless, risky exercise. I don't want border controls at Gretna and I certainly don't want the shame of living in England post-vote knowing that my fellow Scots were so blinded by the propaganda that they actually voted yes.
I'll concede, there's a minuscule chance they could pull it off with a proper sweeping reform of the political landscape up here - Iceland post-crash style - but that will never happen for cronyism is still alive and well especially in the popular 'socialist' camps up here. Post-yes, all Salmond seems to want to do is cosy back up to the European Union ('fast-track' re-entry FFS!) and beg for a currency union with the BoE. That's not independence. That's re-branding for the same old bums on the same seats in Holyrood, giving away any new found freedom left right and centre.
It also genuinely scares me that a 'yes' vote could open the flood gates for a landslide Labour resurgence in the first post-ref election. They are feckless, they have a proven track record of incompetence, but still you could pin a red rosette on a f
king donkey up here (at least where I grew up) and it would waltz in.
Many of my friends from university, mostly engineers in O&G, defence or tech, are firmly and vocally in the 'no' camp. The loudest 'yes' shouters I know are folk who seem unable to progress beyond the 'Thatcher did it' victim mentality, and think the sun shines out of Tommy Sheridan's arse. When the Yes campaign bombard them with flawed emotive arguments, it's patriotic, like some modern-day Braveheart bullst. When the No campaign attempt to inject a bit of sense into the most serious decision they will ever have to make, it's scare mongering. No, it's being realistic.
Edit: I'm actually moving to Hampshire the week after the vote. If it does go 'yes', I'll breathe a sigh of relief that I'm out the door.
Voting 'no' because I'm not willing to risk financial and political suicide. I don't want to jeopardise the friendship and many things we have in common with the rest of the UK for a pointless, risky exercise. I don't want border controls at Gretna and I certainly don't want the shame of living in England post-vote knowing that my fellow Scots were so blinded by the propaganda that they actually voted yes.
I'll concede, there's a minuscule chance they could pull it off with a proper sweeping reform of the political landscape up here - Iceland post-crash style - but that will never happen for cronyism is still alive and well especially in the popular 'socialist' camps up here. Post-yes, all Salmond seems to want to do is cosy back up to the European Union ('fast-track' re-entry FFS!) and beg for a currency union with the BoE. That's not independence. That's re-branding for the same old bums on the same seats in Holyrood, giving away any new found freedom left right and centre.
It also genuinely scares me that a 'yes' vote could open the flood gates for a landslide Labour resurgence in the first post-ref election. They are feckless, they have a proven track record of incompetence, but still you could pin a red rosette on a f
king donkey up here (at least where I grew up) and it would waltz in. Many of my friends from university, mostly engineers in O&G, defence or tech, are firmly and vocally in the 'no' camp. The loudest 'yes' shouters I know are folk who seem unable to progress beyond the 'Thatcher did it' victim mentality, and think the sun shines out of Tommy Sheridan's arse. When the Yes campaign bombard them with flawed emotive arguments, it's patriotic, like some modern-day Braveheart bulls
t. When the No campaign attempt to inject a bit of sense into the most serious decision they will ever have to make, it's scare mongering. No, it's being realistic.Edit: I'm actually moving to Hampshire the week after the vote. If it does go 'yes', I'll breathe a sigh of relief that I'm out the door.
Edited by BonzoG on Sunday 31st August 16:40
English, live in England. Voted YES.
Why?
Well, first let me say that although I am English, a Yorkshireman by birth, brought up in Devon and now living in the east midlands, I am proud of ALL of my country. By that, I am proud that MY country ( the United Kingdom) encompasses such a rich spread of traditions and peoples. I have just holidayed in Wales ( Snowdonia) and delighted in the locals speaking in Welsh around me, the their proud showing of the Welsh flag in all sorts of places. Being British means that a little bit of me is Welsh, just as a little bit of me is Scottish, and a little bit is Norn Iron. ALL these cultures are part my heritage, all are part of me, and all are something of which I am proud and honoured to be a part of.
My school did not just teach me about Shakespeare and Chaucer, but also about Dylan Thomas and Burns. It did not teach me that everything was invented in England, but instead celebrated the hige contributions to our culture, our history, our empire, our knowledge, our industrialisation, our art and everyxthing else that all members of this union, our country, contributed.
I spent my childhood in Devon having Hogmanay style new years, and was taught to sing by a dour Yorkshireman of a choirmaster and his lovely Welsh wife. My early business career in the 1980s saw me regularly flying to Belfast and despite the troubles I never felt less than at home.
Scotland IS mine as much as it belongs to anyone born in Dundee, Inverness or Glasgow.
But I voted Yes. And with a heavy heart, a no small amount of anger. Anger at the betrayal I feel by so many Scottish people who now can barely disguise their anti English hatred. Anger at the lies being told by YES, not because they are being told by the tiny minority, but because so many Scots seem willing to suspend all reason just so that they can believe ( what is frankly) the unbelievable. Its like being betrayed by your best friend. And so many of them want to believe the lies, the venom, the vitriol that frankly I fear there is no way back. It will be a NO vote, but whilst Scotland may think its all just about them, the fact is now that we here in the rUK know its really all about US. I have a choice, and I chose not to stay linked to a bunch of whinging lying nasty chippy ingrates. I don't care if I never go back to Scotland. I have already pulled my business from there. Instead I will be focussing my attention and resources on the rest of MY country, be it Wales, NI, Cornwall or Yorkshire.
It's not "goodbye Scotland" from me. Instead, it's " bugger off then and dont let the door hit your arse on the way out. "
To all Scots voting NO, feel free to migrate south after this particular referendum. You will be most welcome, and it would be a good idea to get yourselfs settled in before the next referendum in 2024. ( which will certainly be a YES vote)
Edited to add: it also pains me that so many NO voters in Scotland are doing so not because they value the union, but because they are scared of how things will be if they vote YES. Where is the enthusiasm for the Union? Where is the pride in all our cultures?
Why?
Well, first let me say that although I am English, a Yorkshireman by birth, brought up in Devon and now living in the east midlands, I am proud of ALL of my country. By that, I am proud that MY country ( the United Kingdom) encompasses such a rich spread of traditions and peoples. I have just holidayed in Wales ( Snowdonia) and delighted in the locals speaking in Welsh around me, the their proud showing of the Welsh flag in all sorts of places. Being British means that a little bit of me is Welsh, just as a little bit of me is Scottish, and a little bit is Norn Iron. ALL these cultures are part my heritage, all are part of me, and all are something of which I am proud and honoured to be a part of.
My school did not just teach me about Shakespeare and Chaucer, but also about Dylan Thomas and Burns. It did not teach me that everything was invented in England, but instead celebrated the hige contributions to our culture, our history, our empire, our knowledge, our industrialisation, our art and everyxthing else that all members of this union, our country, contributed.
I spent my childhood in Devon having Hogmanay style new years, and was taught to sing by a dour Yorkshireman of a choirmaster and his lovely Welsh wife. My early business career in the 1980s saw me regularly flying to Belfast and despite the troubles I never felt less than at home.
Scotland IS mine as much as it belongs to anyone born in Dundee, Inverness or Glasgow.
But I voted Yes. And with a heavy heart, a no small amount of anger. Anger at the betrayal I feel by so many Scottish people who now can barely disguise their anti English hatred. Anger at the lies being told by YES, not because they are being told by the tiny minority, but because so many Scots seem willing to suspend all reason just so that they can believe ( what is frankly) the unbelievable. Its like being betrayed by your best friend. And so many of them want to believe the lies, the venom, the vitriol that frankly I fear there is no way back. It will be a NO vote, but whilst Scotland may think its all just about them, the fact is now that we here in the rUK know its really all about US. I have a choice, and I chose not to stay linked to a bunch of whinging lying nasty chippy ingrates. I don't care if I never go back to Scotland. I have already pulled my business from there. Instead I will be focussing my attention and resources on the rest of MY country, be it Wales, NI, Cornwall or Yorkshire.
It's not "goodbye Scotland" from me. Instead, it's " bugger off then and dont let the door hit your arse on the way out. "
To all Scots voting NO, feel free to migrate south after this particular referendum. You will be most welcome, and it would be a good idea to get yourselfs settled in before the next referendum in 2024. ( which will certainly be a YES vote)
Edited to add: it also pains me that so many NO voters in Scotland are doing so not because they value the union, but because they are scared of how things will be if they vote YES. Where is the enthusiasm for the Union? Where is the pride in all our cultures?
Edited by andymadmak on Sunday 31st August 16:33
Edited by andymadmak on Sunday 31st August 16:34
I voted yes, I am English.
I want them to sod off and cock it up, I want Salmond to have egg on his face and for the people to see him for what he is.
I want the English parliament to be free from the influence of the voting Scots and I think we all need this shake up to keep Labour out of No.10 for a long time.
I don't care who is in No.10, just not labour, it could be the green party for all I care I just hate Labour with a passion.
I want them to sod off and cock it up, I want Salmond to have egg on his face and for the people to see him for what he is.
I want the English parliament to be free from the influence of the voting Scots and I think we all need this shake up to keep Labour out of No.10 for a long time.
I don't care who is in No.10, just not labour, it could be the green party for all I care I just hate Labour with a passion.
McWigglebum4th said:
AJS- said:
Lefty said:
Not sure if PH is representative of the Scottish electorate
No. No it really is not.
Or so he believes
I have also said that Scotland becoming independent isn't an anti-English thing at all, but merely that Scotland wishes to govern it's own affairs. Only complete a
holes continue to maintain the mantra of anti-English sentiment. Do you accept this fact? Or do you wish to continue with your mantra?pcvdriver said:
I have also said that Scotland becoming independent isn't an anti-English thing at all, but merely that Scotland wishes to govern it's own affairs. Only complete aholes continue to maintain the mantra of anti-English sentiment. Do you accept this fact?
It's not a "fact". A significant proportion of the 'yes' voters I live with, work with or otherwise encounter every day are quite vocal in explaining that they are only doing so to get one over on the Tories or the 'auld enemy'. Don't kid yourself that they have either the time or the inclination to properly examine any of the economic arguments for/against. As I said before, modern day Braveheart bullsholes continue to maintain the mantra of anti-English sentiment. Do you accept this fact?t. As a Scot, it's embarrassing. Getragdogleg said:
I voted yes, I am English.
I want them to sod off and cock it up, I want Salmond to have egg on his face and for the people to see him for what he is.
I want the English parliament to be free from the influence of the voting Scots and I think we all need this shake up to keep Labour out of No.10 for a long time.
I don't care who is in No.10, just not labour, it could be the green party for all I care I just hate Labour with a passion.
Are we related?I want them to sod off and cock it up, I want Salmond to have egg on his face and for the people to see him for what he is.
I want the English parliament to be free from the influence of the voting Scots and I think we all need this shake up to keep Labour out of No.10 for a long time.
I don't care who is in No.10, just not labour, it could be the green party for all I care I just hate Labour with a passion.
MintyChris said:
Yes lets ignore the photographic and video evidence of abusive yes campaigners disrupting the no campaign by means of aggression and intimidation. Ignore the twitter, facebook and yes campaign websites listing the times, dates and locations of no campaigning with requests to go and disrupt it.
Lets go by this one persons counter claim....who is a yes voter....with no evidence.
Right then...
Evidence, eh? Well you could try asking the council official who'd asked the yes stall to move on, (which was pretty unfair really since they'd been there since before Jim and his mob turned up on their bus). I'm sure their evidence would be satisfactory to you, with them being an independent witness at the scene.Lets go by this one persons counter claim....who is a yes voter....with no evidence.
Right then...
He had hecklers, so what? A politician can't expect to have the whole of any crowd supporting his views. Even his hecklers have said that the egg throwers were not part of their group - they went to say if they'd been of the less restrained persuasion, they wouldn't have bothered with eggs - but chosen a more physical option instead.
Let's look at the egg throwing itself, shall we? Oh dear, the footage seems to have been removed - isn't that a convenient turn of events? There is another video which shows a clean-cut looking character skulking off rather quickly up the alleyway - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYdp-BgGkr8
Jim's own minder's don't seem to be able to do their jobs, as there was no attempt to restrain the guys who slapped the egg down Jim's back - shall we compare this egging to John Prescott's egging? His team were all over the egg thrower like a rash, in an instant. The whole thing stinks of Agent Provocateur.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff