75 years today WW2 started
Discussion
Eric Mc said:
Grumfutock said:
I thought we defeated the Nazis? I didn't realise they could of come back to police the grammar.
The threat is always there."Ve haf vays of making you talk proper".
"We shall defend our language, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the internet, we shall fight in the schools, we shall fight in the book shops and in on street corners, we shall fight in Waterstones; we shall never surrender and we will learn from Del Boy."
jurbie said:
Grumfutock said:
We tried to get involved against Russia in the Winter War (Russia-Finland) but Finland refused ours and France's offers (50,000) troops. It is thought that Finland already knew we wouldn't stand a chance and opted for peace.
Personally I am glad because we wouldn't of stood a chance!
But then the Finns sided with the Germans, recaptured all their lost territory from the Russians and Britain declared war on the Finns although that wasn't until the end of 1941.Personally I am glad because we wouldn't of stood a chance!
Edited by jurbie on Monday 1st September 14:50
Russia made demands on Finland even during the peace and put strains on the relations, eventually war broke out again and Finland was in desperate need of help. The only option was to side with Germany for the Continuation War 1941-1945.
A note on the Swedish refusal of UK/French troops, fast forward a few years and Nazi troops were welcome to pass through Sweden.
Edited by Finlandia on Tuesday 2nd September 09:12
Finlandia said:
A note on the Swedish refusal of UK/French troops, fast forward a few years and Nazi troops were welcome to pass through Sweden.
I was under the impression it was not a happy state of affairs but when you have a capable military on your door step, they had few options? I believe much ore also passed through.Edited by Finlandia on Tuesday 2nd September 09:12
Grumfutock said:
OK but Finland didn't accept the offer either, for which I fully understand. It was a crazy idea that would only of prolonged Finland's agony.
The foreign minister of Sweden Christian Günther made it clear that Sweden would stop any troop passing with violence. I must say I have not heard of any refusal from Finland, maybe it was a gesture to save further complications?
Finlandia said:
The foreign minister of Sweden Christian Günther made it clear that Sweden would stop any troop passing with violence.
I must say I have not heard of any refusal from Finland, maybe it was a gesture to save further complications?
I believe the final offer was made in Feb 1940 with the aim of landing 50,000 troops. We requested a reply by 12 March but the Finns entered peace talks and never answered our offer. Again I state that this is a good thing.I must say I have not heard of any refusal from Finland, maybe it was a gesture to save further complications?
If we had troops involved and fighting Russia then, apart from the fact we would of got battered, it would of made later developments in 41 some what complicated. I suspect we would have a very different Europe now.
jmorgan said:
Finlandia said:
A note on the Swedish refusal of UK/French troops, fast forward a few years and Nazi troops were welcome to pass through Sweden.
I was under the impression it was not a happy state of affairs but when you have a capable military on your door step, they had few options? I believe much ore also passed through.Edited by Finlandia on Tuesday 2nd September 09:12
It could be said that the leaders of Sweden were not acting for the people and their wish. There are many brave men and women from Sweden who gave their life to help others, while the state helped the other side.
Finlandia said:
It could be said that the leaders of Sweden were not acting for the people and their wish. There are many brave men and women from Sweden who gave their life to help others, while the state helped the other side.
Sadly the same can be said for most countries of Europe during that period.Grumfutock said:
OK but Finland didn't accept the offer either, for which I fully understand. It was a crazy idea that would only of prolonged Finland's agony.
Considering the vast difference in size between Finland and the USSR's military the Finns held out quite well - they fought with tenacity and as Stalin had liquidated a large number of his generals, stripping the Red Army of much needed experience in the field he really hadn't done his forces any favours, they won, but only by sheer weight of numbers - this seeming blunder emboldened Hitler in the run up to Operation Barbarossa, believing the USSR to be militarily weak and incapable.Grumfutock said:
Finlandia said:
The foreign minister of Sweden Christian Günther made it clear that Sweden would stop any troop passing with violence.
I must say I have not heard of any refusal from Finland, maybe it was a gesture to save further complications?
I believe the final offer was made in Feb 1940 with the aim of landing 50,000 troops. We requested a reply by 12 March but the Finns entered peace talks and never answered our offer. Again I state that this is a good thing.I must say I have not heard of any refusal from Finland, maybe it was a gesture to save further complications?
If we had troops involved and fighting Russia then, apart from the fact we would of got battered, it would of made later developments in 41 some what complicated. I suspect we would have a very different Europe now.
I'm not sure if it would have been a disaster, the troops would have been set to control the ore fields in Northern Sweden, which would have pretty much prevented, or at least severely hampered the German manufacturing in years to come.
It's all guesswork though, but it irks me that Swedish today are very quick to condemn Finland for their Nazi collaboration, swiftly forgetting their own role in the events.
Grumfutock said:
Finlandia said:
It could be said that the leaders of Sweden were not acting for the people and their wish. There are many brave men and women from Sweden who gave their life to help others, while the state helped the other side.
Sadly the same can be said for most countries of Europe during that period.Axionknight said:
Finlandia said:
It's all guesswork though, but it irks me that Swedish today are very quick to condemn Finland for their Nazi collaboration, swiftly forgetting their own role in the events.
Like Vichy France?Axionknight said:
Finlandia said:
It's all guesswork though, but it irks me that Swedish today are very quick to condemn Finland for their Nazi collaboration, swiftly forgetting their own role in the events.
Like Vichy France?
ish (doesn't happen often).Look at De Gaulle - a
of the highest order, even more so after we'd got him his country back.We should have kept it for ourselves and f
ked him off to St Helena.Axionknight said:
Considering the vast difference in size between Finland and the USSR's military the Finns held out quite well - they fought with tenacity and as Stalin had liquidated a large number of his generals, stripping the Red Army of much needed experience in the field he really hadn't done his forces any favours, they won, but only by sheer weight of numbers - this seeming blunder emboldened Hitler in the run up to Operation Barbarossa, believing the USSR to be militarily weak and incapable.
It could have ended very quickly, like it did for the Baltic states, but luck and determination (the Finnish sisu) and not least the leadership and strategy used meant that Finland could keep their independency.Finlandia said:
It could have ended very quickly, like it did for the Baltic states, but luck and determination (the Finnish sisu) and not least the leadership and strategy used meant that Finland could keep their independency.
As an ex soldier I have studied the Battle of Raate Road and have to say it was a fantastic performance by the Finns. During the whole war they punched way above their weight. I am only surprised they didn't achieve most during the continuation War although I think that was because of politics rather lack of fighting will.We celebrated my mum's 75th birthday this weekend just gone. She was born at the outbreak of WWII. I always find it odd to think that her first memories are against a backdrop of war.
She lived in London (Charlton, near the docks) so they were bombed a lot and her great aunt was one of the last UK civilians killed in an air raid (went back to turn off the gas and got hit by a V2).
She lived in London (Charlton, near the docks) so they were bombed a lot and her great aunt was one of the last UK civilians killed in an air raid (went back to turn off the gas and got hit by a V2).
Grumfutock said:
Finlandia said:
It could have ended very quickly, like it did for the Baltic states, but luck and determination (the Finnish sisu) and not least the leadership and strategy used meant that Finland could keep their independency.
As an ex soldier I have studied the Battle of Raate Road and have to say it was a fantastic performance by the Finns. During the whole war they punched way above their weight. I am only surprised they didn't achieve most during the continuation War although I think that was because of politics rather lack of fighting will.The Continuation War, Finland had no real equipment while Russia had grown militarily, in a war with two so very differently sized and populated countries, it can only end in one way, or put in another way, miracles don't come in pairs.
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