75 years today WW2 started

[Axionknight]

Finlandia said:

I suppose yes, with the difference that Sweden was never occupied and always claimed to be fully neutral.

Information regarding Nazi shipping/naval movements in the seas around Sweden did find its way into British hands though, so the issue of neutrality does seem to go both ways - I know its not comparable with boots on the ground, so to speak, but none the less, it happened.

From memory I think Himmler tried making peace overtures with the Western Allies through a Swedish Count or politician too - the name Folke Bernadotte comes to mind. Does anyone have any ideas on why a senior Nazi and the head of the SS would be in contact with this chap??

[Grumfutock]

Axionknight said:

From memory I think Himmler tried making peace overtures with the Western Allies through a Swedish Count or politician too - the name Folke Bernadotte comes to mind. Does anyone have any ideas on why a senior Nazi and the head of the SS would be in contact with this chap??

He was vice chairman of the red cross and had a lot of dealing with POW swaps and also rescued people from concentration camps etc. Hence the contact with senior Nazis leaders. Ironically the Jewish group Levi assassinated him in 48 when he was working for the UN.

[Finlandese]

Finlandia said:

Grumfutock said:

Finlandia said:

It could have ended very quickly, like it did for the Baltic states, but luck and determination (the Finnish sisu) and not least the leadership and strategy used meant that Finland could keep their independency.

As an ex soldier I have studied the Battle of Raate Road and have to say it was a fantastic performance by the Finns. During the whole war they punched way above their weight. I am only surprised they didn't achieve most during the continuation War although I think that was because of politics rather lack of fighting will.

My father fought at Raate, he never talked about it.

The Continuation War, Finland had no real equipment while Russia had grown militarily, in a war with two so very differently sized and populated countries, it can only end in one way, or put in another way, miracles don't come in pairs.

The continuation war performance had also a lot to do with political decisions of not completing the encirclement of Leningrad or cutting off the Murmansk railroad. This was done in taking consideration the fact that the Russian people who outnumber us by far will always live next to Finland. If the Finns pose an excistentiel threat to Russians, eventually Russians would take care of the problem. If not during WWII, it would happend on a later date. Mannerheim had lost faith in (if ever had one) in German victory well before Stalingrad.

There was no real desire to continue across the pre-winter war borders. The only reasons for it was to have better defensive positions.

[Axionknight]

Grumfutock said:

He was vice chairman of the red cross and had a lot of dealing with POW swaps and also rescued people from concentration camps etc. Hence the contact with senior Nazis leaders. Ironically the Jewish group Levi assassinated him in 48 when he was working for the UN.

Cheers! :-)

[Finlandia]

Grumfutock said:

Axionknight said:

From memory I think Himmler tried making peace overtures with the Western Allies through a Swedish Count or politician too - the name Folke Bernadotte comes to mind. Does anyone have any ideas on why a senior Nazi and the head of the SS would be in contact with this chap??

He was vice chairman of the red cross and had a lot of dealing with POW swaps and also rescued people from concentration camps etc. Hence the contact with senior Nazis leaders. Ironically the Jewish group Levi assassinated him in 48 when he was working for the UN.

Shame his uncle wasn't more like him. According to Per Albin Hansson (the Swedish PM) and Christian Günther (the Swedish foreign minister), the king of Sweden (Folke Bernadottes uncle, Gustav V) threatened to abdicate if German troops were not allowed free passage through Sweden.

Finlandese said:

Finlandia said:

Grumfutock said:

Finlandia said:

It could have ended very quickly, like it did for the Baltic states, but luck and determination (the Finnish sisu) and not least the leadership and strategy used meant that Finland could keep their independency.

As an ex soldier I have studied the Battle of Raate Road and have to say it was a fantastic performance by the Finns. During the whole war they punched way above their weight. I am only surprised they didn't achieve most during the continuation War although I think that was because of politics rather lack of fighting will.

My father fought at Raate, he never talked about it.

The Continuation War, Finland had no real equipment while Russia had grown militarily, in a war with two so very differently sized and populated countries, it can only end in one way, or put in another way, miracles don't come in pairs.

The continuation war performance had also a lot to do with political decisions of not completing the encirclement of Leningrad or cutting off the Murmansk railroad. This was done in taking consideration the fact that the Russian people who outnumber us by far will always live next to Finland. If the Finns pose an excistentiel threat to Russians, eventually Russians would take care of the problem. If not during WWII, it would happend on a later date. Mannerheim had lost faith in (if ever had one) in German victory well before Stalingrad.

There was no real desire to continue across the pre-winter war borders. The only reasons for it was to have better defensive positions.

True and adding to that, the people of Finland were tired of fighting wars, in the first 20 years of the history of the sovereign Finland two great wars had already been fought.

[Grumfutock]

You really don't like Sweden do you?

[vonuber]

I read a really good book on the Winter War a few years ago, a real eye opener.
Apropos of which and with regard to the other thread, it is interesting how many (for example) Estonians signed up with Germany to fight the Russians.

[Finlandia]

Grumfutock said:

You really don't like Sweden do you?

It's mutual, ask any Norwegian or Danish person what they really think about Sweden

Seriously though, Sweden is good in many ways, but very quick to point blame at others, while being totally oblivious to their own historical and present day shortcomings and failures.

[Grumfutock]

Finlandia said:

Seriously though, Sweden is good in many ways, but very quick to point blame at others, while being totally oblivious to their own historical and present day shortcomings and failures.

I know, I work for one and that has just summed him up!