Hmmmm... not good....Stolen airliners in Libya...

Hmmmm... not good....Stolen airliners in Libya...

Author
Discussion

scherzkeks

4,460 posts

135 months

Wednesday 3rd September 2014
quotequote all
Moonhawk said:
The only reason the 9/11 attacks worked was because by the time anyone knew the planes were under enemy control - it was too late to do anything about it.
Right, if you believe that, I have some ocean front property in Oklahoma to sell you.

TinyCappo

2,106 posts

154 months

Wednesday 3rd September 2014
quotequote all
Seven Airbus 320s, one Airbus 330, two French ATR-42 turboprop aircraft, and four Bombardier CRJ-900s.

They are blacklisted on the european airspace so as soon as their transponder turns up on radar.. Oh wait they can be turned off....

EDIT. please tell me im not the only one who thought the link was freebacon.......

Edited by TinyCappo on Wednesday 3rd September 11:14

Steve_W

1,496 posts

178 months

Wednesday 3rd September 2014
quotequote all
Grumfutock said:
Oil platforms would make a great economic target or a cruise ship a propaganda one for example.
An LPG tanker would make the biggest bang I'd imagine

Four Litre

2,021 posts

193 months

Wednesday 3rd September 2014
quotequote all
el stovey said:
vescaegg said:
An unknown large aircraft even remotely being directed at a western country would not get very far these days id imagine.
I'm not convinced, MH370 didn't have too much problem being undetected simply by turning off the transponder.

There are lots of western countries a large low flying jet could reach before being detected, identified and then for a military aircraft to scramble and reach and get permission to shoot it down. That process would take quite a long time.
Few months back I would of said no chance, after MH370 it appears they have every chance in the world. If they were able to fly them out in the first place, sure they can pretty much 'land' them somewhere they shouldn't.

With Barry lost on the golf course for 99% of the time and Dave out surfing and planning his next photo opportunity it all doesn't look so good.

TheJimi

25,040 posts

244 months

Wednesday 3rd September 2014
quotequote all
Four Litre said:
el stovey said:
vescaegg said:
An unknown large aircraft even remotely being directed at a western country would not get very far these days id imagine.
I'm not convinced, MH370 didn't have too much problem being undetected simply by turning off the transponder.

There are lots of western countries a large low flying jet could reach before being detected, identified and then for a military aircraft to scramble and reach and get permission to shoot it down. That process would take quite a long time.
Few months back I would of said no chance, after MH370 it appears they have every chance in the world. If they were able to fly them out in the first place, sure they can pretty much 'land' them somewhere they shouldn't.
My thoughts exactly.

How likely is it that the intelligence services know there whereabouts of these planes?


Grumfutock

5,274 posts

166 months

Wednesday 3rd September 2014
quotequote all
Steve_W said:
Grumfutock said:
Oil platforms would make a great economic target or a cruise ship a propaganda one for example.
An LPG tanker would make the biggest bang I'd imagine
But not as big an impact as an oil tanker. With those you get explosion, fire and pollution

Digga

40,395 posts

284 months

Wednesday 3rd September 2014
quotequote all
Rocksteadyeddie said:
Moonhawk said:
First of all - you have the small problem of getting an internet connection on board an airliner.

Second - how 'live' and accurate is this map. I clicked on a few ships on this map - and it appears that the transponder signals are sent intermittently. Some of the ships I found had uploaded positional data as long ago as 40 minutes. At a cruising speed of 12 knots that could put the ships position out by over 9 miles.

Hitting a ship that you know is there is one thing - but finding a ship (let alone a specific one) from a commercial airliner is a whole different ballgame.

You'd have to have a pretty specific targets to cause major disruption. Hitting a cargo ship full of rubber dog s#it out of Hong Kong is unlikely to impact anyone except joke shop owners in Blackpool.
I think that's mainly flown in and out. I saw a documentary on it once. I think it was a documentary anyway.
I saw that documentary, but i think you got confused somewhere. It was about airline catering - that was actually a sausage not a turd.

The Hypno-Toad

12,304 posts

206 months

Wednesday 3rd September 2014
quotequote all
Stolen to scrap to fund terrorism? Just a thought.

Either way, not good.

vescaegg

25,616 posts

168 months

Wednesday 3rd September 2014
quotequote all
TheJimi said:
Four Litre said:
el stovey said:
vescaegg said:
An unknown large aircraft even remotely being directed at a western country would not get very far these days id imagine.
I'm not convinced, MH370 didn't have too much problem being undetected simply by turning off the transponder.

There are lots of western countries a large low flying jet could reach before being detected, identified and then for a military aircraft to scramble and reach and get permission to shoot it down. That process would take quite a long time.
Few months back I would of said no chance, after MH370 it appears they have every chance in the world. If they were able to fly them out in the first place, sure they can pretty much 'land' them somewhere they shouldn't.
My thoughts exactly.

How likely is it that the intelligence services know there whereabouts of these planes?
Cant be that hard to spot large planes from satellite surely? There cant be that many places they can physically land in Libya can there?

Or are they not that big?

paranoid airbag

2,679 posts

160 months

Wednesday 3rd September 2014
quotequote all
Moonhawk said:
You'd have to have a pretty specific targets to cause major disruption. Hitting a cargo ship full of rubber dog s#it out of Hong Kong is unlikely to impact anyone except joke shop owners in Blackpool.
Doesn't that come in air freight? wink

onyx39

Original Poster:

11,129 posts

151 months

Wednesday 3rd September 2014
quotequote all
The Hypno-Toad said:
Stolen to scrap to fund terrorism? Just a thought.

Either way, not good.
All parts are catalogued, surely as soon as someone tried to sell parts of blacklisted planes, alarm bells would start somewhere?

telecat

8,528 posts

242 months

Wednesday 3rd September 2014
quotequote all
Most ATC's still have what is known as Primary Radar. This is the "classic" reflection of radio waves giving a location of an object in the air. It is range limited hence long over sea flights have to be tracked by other means. I believe that any "object" approaching Europe or the USA without a transponder on will be tracked and handed over to Military Control. These days as well as the RAF's QRA and the various NATO QRA's the USAF has a QRA on the East coast for NORAD and Washington DC. The DC QRA should be able to cover New York as well.

TinyCappo

2,106 posts

154 months

Wednesday 3rd September 2014
quotequote all
There is RAF gibraltar. Used to house a Tonka QRF but thats now gone and is manned as and when needed I think. Nothing permanently stationed any more.


mouseymousey

2,641 posts

238 months

Wednesday 3rd September 2014
quotequote all
onyx39 said:
11 stolen airlines taken from Libya..


http://freebeacon.com/national-security/missing-li...
Can't believe we haven't heard more about this if it's true and there's a link here suggesting it's not credible

http://www.janes.com/article

AngryPartsBloke

1,436 posts

152 months

Wednesday 3rd September 2014
quotequote all
telecat said:
Most ATC's still have what is known as Primary Radar. This is the "classic" reflection of radio waves giving a location of an object in the air. It is range limited hence long over sea flights have to be tracked by other means. I believe that any "object" approaching Europe or the USA without a transponder on will be tracked and handed over to Military Control. These days as well as the RAF's QRA and the various NATO QRA's the USAF has a QRA on the East coast for NORAD and Washington DC. The DC QRA should be able to cover New York as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Defense_Identification_Zone

Jimbeaux

33,791 posts

232 months

Wednesday 3rd September 2014
quotequote all
Jordan or a Saudi Oilfield would ba a high value target for this bunch.

TinyCappo

2,106 posts

154 months

Wednesday 3rd September 2014
quotequote all
Saudi?

Jimbeaux

33,791 posts

232 months

Wednesday 3rd September 2014
quotequote all
TinyCappo said:
Saudi?
Yes, there are sects of Islamic extremists who hate Saud. Depends on who they are. Remember, these nuts were killing each other long before us.
Saudi oilfields are an economic target that would cause much disruption to Western economies if hit, just by optics alone. Saud is on the TV constantly warning of US/Euro attacks by ISIS; or are you of the school that they are behind all of this?



Edited by Jimbeaux on Wednesday 3rd September 15:04

photosnob

1,339 posts

119 months

Wednesday 3rd September 2014
quotequote all
I think it's fair to say that things at risk are being protected by people with equipment who can defend it. I'd imagine most oil rigs will not have their very own private security contractors with equipment that could take a civilian plane down very easily.

BlackLabel

13,251 posts

124 months

Wednesday 3rd September 2014
quotequote all
How much damage could you cause to the world's economy if you just forced all commercial planes to be grounded for say 24 hours? You would not even need a target. Just take to the skies and fly in random directions all over the globe. Keep a couple back in a hanger somewhere to keep folks guessing. Governments rush to shut down airspace and you've then pretty much distrupted the lives of thousands of people and cost them a shed load of money in the process.

Or have I been watching too much tv?