Ed Miliband

[mybrainhurts]

edh said:

R666 said:

Can you list them? Genuinely interested. Even when we have the list, They don't seem to trot out bullst everyday like milliband though just to win votes

And he says nothing to support business. Last time I checked the people that create wealth for everyone by employing people etc....

Zod listed them above - I'm sure you will dismiss them anyway.

Policies for business - see below

http://press.labour.org.uk/post/115103489714/labou...

As for Tory bullst, what else would you call the splurge of Tory spending and bribery promises that appeared suddenly, without even a shred of explanation of funding apart from "trust us" and "look SNP!" So far that's been pretty much all the Tories have had to offer - their campaign has been very poor. They say there will be £12bn cuts in welfare, but refuse to say where they will fall - is there anyone who thinks they don't know?

Oh, hell, yes, you're right. Why didn't I see that?

What we need is a Labour government to borrow, borrow, borrow, tax, tax, tax, spend, spend, spend, SPEND....until we bust.

Again...

As always.

Then EVERYBODY suffers, even you deluded socialists.

[Zod]

edh said:

R666 said:

Can you list them? Genuinely interested. Even when we have the list, They don't seem to trot out bullst everyday like milliband though just to win votes

And he says nothing to support business. Last time I checked the people that create wealth for everyone by employing people etc....

Zod listed them above - I'm sure you will dismiss them anyway.

Of course they are to be dismissed. There is no funding for policies there, just a list of half-hearted aspirations (getting money from "tax avoiders" and plans for new taxes that will raise little money, no money or even cost money.

[2.5pi]

edh said:

So you're charging less than "market rates"? Any particular reason apart from philanthropy? Not knocking philanthropy, it's nice to see, but how many landlords charge less than "market rates" and why?

..and if there are business reasons for charging less, then I'd have thought that's the "market rate" to obtain those particular business benefits.

I have a number of tenants at below market rates, one pensioner who's rent I reduced when it became apparent he was struggling because his income was savings interest and interest rates had gone through the floor. That had in turn reduced my interest costs so I passed on the benefit of that.

The second that springs to mind is a single mother who split up with her boyfriend and lost control of her finances as he was previously the one who'd kept the family purse strings. I gave her a three month rent free period to get herself sorted and reduced the rent going forward.

I do this partly from altruistic motives but also because a good tenant who looks after the house and does their level best to pay the rent is better than playing Russian roulette with an unknown new tenant..

[speedy_thrills]

Slaav said:

And I do hate the way the desperate pleas for votes on both sides are absolutely rubbished by more and more frantic 'giveaways' to buy votes in the closing stages.

Aww...your such an idealist, is this your first time?

In just over a week all these promises and sweet talk will be long forgotten. You see for all this lip service about putting principals first voters individual preferences don't really matter. Politicians have to be wolfish pragmatists to run the country long after the bunting has come down. There's probably back office chat going on right now between Labour, Conservative and SNP to hash out some sort of a workable government. Manifesto pledges and aims will be sacrificed to allow the gears of power to grind away. As voters we know we are being lied to but would refuse to vote for anyone who told the truth.

That's what I enjoy about democracy, there is this silly bit where voters prove they have little understanding of democracy and the bit after elections where deals are cut, favours are exchanged and politics occurs in smoke filled rooms. Easy to like the first bit but it's the latter that counts if you want to make a difference.

[edh]

Justayellowbadge said:

edh, you're on HPC, aren't you?

No - at least I don't think so. What's HPC? as far as I know it's something to do with Caterhams

[edh]

Zod said:

edh said:

R666 said:

Can you list them? Genuinely interested. Even when we have the list, They don't seem to trot out bullst everyday like milliband though just to win votes

And he says nothing to support business. Last time I checked the people that create wealth for everyone by employing people etc....

Zod listed them above - I'm sure you will dismiss them anyway.

Of course they are to be dismissed. There is no funding for policies there, just a list of half-hearted aspirations (getting money from "tax avoiders" and plans for new taxes that will raise little money, no money or even cost money.

So you believe the Tory promises, without any attempt to justify or explain, because it suits your political persuasion (I think the Tories have budgeted for substantial recovery from "tax avoiders" btw) and choose to dismiss Labour's explanations.

The mansion tax will raise money - how could it not? You must know that the supposed evidence for the 50p rate reducing tax take is very very weak. Some studies I've read suggest it could raise up to £4bn pa, particularly when applied over a longer period so people can't shift income between tax years.

There's huge scope for changes to tax law to prevent profit shifting - and there is international support for it. I don't know if it's just lip service from the Tories but even they seem to think something needs to be done.

I try not to be partisan, and am critical of some Labour proposals - even UKIP have some good policies (and as discussed on another thread, the TUSC proposal for a £10 NMW was quite well received on here)

[edh]

gregf40 said:

edh said:

So far that's been pretty much all the Tories have had to offer - their campaign has been very poor.

Oh right...and there was me thinking they should be judged on the past 5 years. Silly me.

I'd like to hear about what they will do, not just FUD.

Judge them on the tests that Cameron set himself in 2010 and I don't think they look very good - do you?

[IvanSTi]

edh said:

Judge them on the tests that Cameron set himself in 2010 and I don't think they look very good - do you?

And neither does any government if you judge them on their performance/promise ratio as it's all Bullst. A smokescreen as another poster showed above.

IMO they can all go and die a painful death, but having Labour take charge at the minute is going to kill our economy good and proper.

[Zod]

edh said:

Zod said:

edh said:

R666 said:

Can you list them? Genuinely interested. Even when we have the list, They don't seem to trot out bullst everyday like milliband though just to win votes

And he says nothing to support business. Last time I checked the people that create wealth for everyone by employing people etc....

Zod listed them above - I'm sure you will dismiss them anyway.

Of course they are to be dismissed. There is no funding for policies there, just a list of half-hearted aspirations (getting money from "tax avoiders" and plans for new taxes that will raise little money, no money or even cost money.

So you believe the Tory promises, without any attempt to justify or explain, because it suits your political persuasion (I think the Tories have budgeted for substantial recovery from "tax avoiders" btw) and choose to dismiss Labour's explanations.

The mansion tax will raise money - how could it not? You must know that the supposed evidence for the 50p rate reducing tax take is very very weak. Some studies I've read suggest it could raise up to £4bn pa, particularly when applied over a longer period so people can't shift income between tax years.

There's huge scope for changes to tax law to prevent profit shifting - and there is international support for it. I don't know if it's just lip service from the Tories but even they seem to think something needs to be done.

I try not to be partisan, and am critical of some Labour proposals - even UKIP have some good policies (and as discussed on another thread, the TUSC proposal for a £10 NMW was quite well received on here)

You try not to be partisan? Your sympathies are pretty obvious.

The Conservatives have a tack record on which they can be judged. So do Labour, but it's not a good one.

Labour has been unable to quantify how much the mansion tax would raise. Given the number of £2m properties, the amount would be tiny.

The evidence in regard to the 50p rate is not weak in the least. It raised hardly anything when in force.

[Challo]

Zod said:

edh said:

Zod said:

edh said:

R666 said:

Can you list them? Genuinely interested. Even when we have the list, They don't seem to trot out bullst everyday like milliband though just to win votes

And he says nothing to support business. Last time I checked the people that create wealth for everyone by employing people etc....

Zod listed them above - I'm sure you will dismiss them anyway.

Of course they are to be dismissed. There is no funding for policies there, just a list of half-hearted aspirations (getting money from "tax avoiders" and plans for new taxes that will raise little money, no money or even cost money.

So you believe the Tory promises, without any attempt to justify or explain, because it suits your political persuasion (I think the Tories have budgeted for substantial recovery from "tax avoiders" btw) and choose to dismiss Labour's explanations.

The mansion tax will raise money - how could it not? You must know that the supposed evidence for the 50p rate reducing tax take is very very weak. Some studies I've read suggest it could raise up to £4bn pa, particularly when applied over a longer period so people can't shift income between tax years.

There's huge scope for changes to tax law to prevent profit shifting - and there is international support for it. I don't know if it's just lip service from the Tories but even they seem to think something needs to be done.

I try not to be partisan, and am critical of some Labour proposals - even UKIP have some good policies (and as discussed on another thread, the TUSC proposal for a £10 NMW was quite well received on here)

You try not to be partisan? Your sympathies are pretty obvious.

The Conservatives have a tack record on which they can be judged. So do Labour, but it's not a good one.

Labour has been unable to quantify how much the mansion tax would raise. Given the number of £2m properties, the amount would be tiny.

The evidence in regard to the 50p rate is not weak in the least. It raised hardly anything when in force.

I wonder how many MP's will be hit with the Mansion Tax if it takes hold??

[edh]

Zod said:

You try not to be partisan? Your sympathies are pretty obvious.

The Conservatives have a tack record on which they can be judged. So do Labour, but it's not a good one.

Labour has been unable to quantify how much the mansion tax would raise. Given the number of £2m properties, the amount would be tiny.

The evidence in regard to the 50p rate is not weak in the least. It raised hardly anything when in force.

Of course they are obvious, I'm hiding nothing. You can have my party membership number if you like

I don't support Labour blindly and oppose them when I think they are wrong - Mansion tax for example. The latest stamp duty cut is another. They need to reform NI. I didn't vote Labour in 2005 because of the Iraq war. they screwed up banking regulation and were captured by the City, instead of supporting productive businesses. Only the removal of Blair, Straw, Milliband (D), etc.. gave me a party I felt I could join and support.

I've already explained why I believe the evidence for the 50p rate raising little was because it was gamed and avoided.

[turbobloke]

edh said:

I've already explained why I believe the evidence for the 50p rate raising little was because it was gamed and avoided.

And for the future, whatever Ed and Ed may try, do you think that they and their Union advisers are smarter than top private sector lawyers and top accountamts? Not a chance. There will always be 'new' ways of avoiding tax, as well as old ones such as simply working less or moving tax jurisdiction.

Your explanation was correct and it'll also explain why any new 50p rate won't make anywhere near as much in tax as the Eds may claim. As per the Mansion Tax, and the Bonus Tax. Labour's tax hype is simplistic and would only fool simpletons, which you are clearly not.

[gregf40]

edh said:

gregf40 said:

edh said:

So far that's been pretty much all the Tories have had to offer - their campaign has been very poor.

Oh right...and there was me thinking they should be judged on the past 5 years. Silly me.

I'd like to hear about what they will do, not just FUD.

Judge them on the tests that Cameron set himself in 2010 and I don't think they look very good - do you?

I think he did far better than any of the socialist leaders would have done!

[edh]

iphonedyou said:

edh said:

Of course they are obvious, I'm hiding nothing. You can have my party membership number if you like

I don't support Labour blindly and oppose them when I think they are wrong - Mansion tax for example. The latest stamp duty cut is another. They need to reform NI. I didn't vote Labour in 2005 because of the Iraq war. they screwed up banking regulation and were captured by the City, instead of supporting productive businesses. Only the removal of Blair, Straw, Milliband (D), etc.. gave me a party I felt I could join and support.

I've already explained why I believe the evidence for the 50p rate raising little was because it was gamed and avoided.

What about the fact that while income tax has varied between approximately 35% and 95% since the 40s the return as a percentage of GDP has varied betweeen 34 and 36%?

http://www.capx.co/its-unlikely-that-miliband-and-...

That suggests it's not 'gaming' that reduces the take.

I'm not sure you can draw that conclusion

Income Tax is approx 25% of govt income. Top rate tax take is 20% of IT. A 10% increase in top rate tax, even if paid in full, makes a ~0.5% change to total tax income, so maybe 0.15% of GDP. Your measure isn't sensitive enough to analyse these sorts of changes.

""HMRC find that an astonishing £16bn of income was deliberately shifted into the previous tax year - at a cost to the taxpayer of £1bn, something that the previous government's figures made no allowance for whatsoever," the chancellor said."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17465733

[edh]

turbobloke said:

edh said:

I've already explained why I believe the evidence for the 50p rate raising little was because it was gamed and avoided.

And for the future, whatever Ed and Ed may try, do you think that they and their Union advisers are smarter than top private sector lawyers and top accountamts? Not a chance. There will always be 'new' ways of avoiding tax, as well as old ones such as simply working less or moving tax jurisdiction.

Your explanation was correct and it'll also explain why any new 50p rate won't make anywhere near as much in tax as the Eds may claim. As per the Mansion Tax, and the Bonus Tax. Labour's tax hype is simplistic and would only fool simpletons, which you are clearly not.

You're too kind.. as always, the answer lies somewhere in the middle (and for the avoidance of doubt, that's not Nick Clegg's middle!)

Now I must get out and deliver some Labour propaganda...

[MrCheese]

If the mansion tax is so great, why do they point blank refuse to release any information on the level of the bands or the % rate that will be applied. How could anyone vote for such a profound change in taxation, the threshold of which is bound to lower in the future, without even the most basic information provided? People are just thick.

[turbobloke]

edh said:

turbobloke said:

edh said:

I've already explained why I believe the evidence for the 50p rate raising little was because it was gamed and avoided.

And for the future, whatever Ed and Ed may try, do you think that they and their Union advisers are smarter than top private sector lawyers and top accountants? Not a chance. There will always be 'new' ways of avoiding tax, as well as old ones such as simply working less or moving tax jurisdiction.

Your explanation was correct and it'll also explain why any new 50p rate won't make anywhere near as much in tax as the Eds may claim. As per the Mansion Tax, and the Bonus Tax. Labour's tax hype is simplistic and would only fool simpletons, which you are clearly not.

You're too kind.. as always, the answer lies somewhere in the middle (and for the avoidance of doubt, that's not Nick Clegg's middle!)

Between raising something and raising nothing, that's the middle. However the 'answer' will be a lot nearer nothing than the something expected by the Eds and their more credulous followers.

No need to thank me it was hopefully seen as a courteous way of making clear that a general comment wasn't directed at you, to avoid possible misunderstanding.

edh said:

Now I must get out and deliver some Labour propaganda...

Break a leg

[Cheese Mechanic]

edh said:

Now I must get out and deliver some Labour propaganda...

Precisley, why tell people a crock of crap on a forum, when you can tell them blatant lies on their doorstep, with little prospect of being challenged, knowing the intellect of Labour voters. Take a dummy giro with you, do you?.

[edh]

turbobloke said:

edh said:

edh said:

Now I must get out and deliver some Labour propaganda...

Break a leg

just did a few this evening, but the commissars have demanded we redouble our stakhanovite efforts to reach our targets of 200 houses per day, to defeat the evil imperialist and reactionary forces ranged against us.

[edh]

Cheese Mechanic said:

edh said:

Now I must get out and deliver some Labour propaganda...

Precisley, why tell people a crock of crap on a forum, when you can tell them blatant lies on their doorstep, with little prospect of being challenged, knowing the intellect of Labour voters. Take a dummy giro with you, do you?.

Thank you for your erudite and amusing contribution.

You know that when you go canvassing, you knock on all the doors, not just the Labour ones?..

btw what is a "dummy giro"? sounds exciting