Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 6

[Troubleatmill]

A last throw of the dice.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-pol...

[Axionknight]

Pledge to put it to Parliament more like, I hope they reject it even though I live in Scotland. I get by just fine and can't see that changing - stuff the moaning Yes fkers.

They refused the option of devo max on the day and are now basically offering it on a plate, the fking idiots.

Edited by Axionknight on Monday 15th September 22:26

[eharding]

Troubleatmill said:

A last throw of the dice.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-pol...

Why does Milliband look like he's got his hand and face pressed up against a sheet of glass in that photo?

[davepoth]

eharding said:

Troubleatmill said:

A last throw of the dice.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-pol...

Why does Milliband look like he's got his hand and face pressed up against a sheet of glass in that photo?

Clegg looks like he's in a low budget remake of The Shining. Surely those weren't the best three photos they could find?

[technogogo]

Troubleatmill said:

The DVLA may not be allowed to do it.
It depends on the licensing agreement of any software they have bought.
It is quite often to see small print that says - you can't run the software on behalf of a third party ( which effectively deprives the vendor of another sale )

Yes quite possibly, but money on the table opens doors to renegotiation including existing software agreements. I'm strongly 'No' but part of me thinks that what follows a 'Yes' win would be extremely interesting. In the Chinese curse sense.

[Funk]

Troubleatmill said:

A last throw of the dice.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-pol...

I don't want more power and money being given to Scotland. It's already disgraceful that some get a free university education based on where they live when the funds to pay for it are being drawn from a pot we all pay into. Seems I'm also not alone in wanting a harder line taken even in the event of a No:

Independent said:

However, in a blow to the Better Together campaign, the survey also shows that English people would be in favour of the UK Government taking a much tougher stance on Scotland if it decides to say in the Union.

Most of those polled (56 per cent) agreed that public spending in Scotland should be reduced to the UK average following a No vote, while the vast majority (63 per cent) believe that Scottish MPs should be prevented from voting on English laws in the future.

One of the researchers, Professor Richard Wyn Jones of Cardiff University, said there had been “surprisingly little scrutiny” of what the pro-union parties had promised would happen if Scotland rejected independence.

“The question for Scottish voters is whether they can rely on pledges about the consequences of a No vote, when such pledges do not seem to be supported in the largest and most politically important part of the union,” he said. “The truth of the matter is that the English appear in no mood to be particularly accommodating however the Scots choose to vote in their independence referendum.

There has been surprisingly little scrutiny of the rampant promises being made by Westminster and I don't agree with any of them. We should not be bribing Scotland to stay just as you don't 'reward' a child's temper tantrums and foot-stamping with toys and sweets just to 'shut them up'.

This isn't going to go away, I'm afraid the Yestapo have opened a Pandora's Box and the rUK is starting to peer closely at the contents. I hope it's a Yes on Thursday, and a hard line taken in negotiations going forward.

[blinkythefish]

Has been said before that yes is claiming to be all things to all people, but this guy has written a good discussion around it:

http://wakeupscotland.wordpress.com/2014/09/15/ewa...

[Troubleatmill]

How easy will it be for Scotland to get into the EU?

Spanish Minister for European Affairs says..... The route is Article 49 and will take 5 years+

[Funk]

Troubleatmill said:

How easy will it be for Scotland to get into the EU?

Spanish Minister for European Affairs says..... The route is Article 49 and will take 5 years+

They will also need their own currency, a central bank and many strict parameters to be met. Then they will have to abandon that currency and use the Euro.

I'm still curious as to why Scotland is so keen to throw off the yoke of English subsidy with its distant Parliament and shackle itself to Brussels to be ruled by a Parliament even further away in which they will carry considerably less sway (ie. none) and which will give zero fks about Scotland compared to rUK.

[Borghetto]

swamp said:

cardigankid said:

... The way to win this, now and in the future, is to project a British Government for the whole of Britain. Something radical. Rotate Parliament through London, Cardiff, Liverpool, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Newcastle. How do you know it won't work? ....

^^^^ This.

The Palace of Westminster needs to be closed for 4 years' repairs anyway. Kill two birds with one stone and rotate Parliament, albeit temporarily, around the country.

Eg Glasgow, Swansea, Plymouth, Belfast, Leeds, Derby.

It worked for England international football matches when Wembley was being rebuilt...!

If you look at the financial disaster having two parliaments in the EU is, why would you want to replicate it in our country.

Edited by Borghetto on Monday 15th September 23:05

[Welshbeef]

Troubleatmill said:

How easy will it be for Scotland to get into the EU?

Spanish Minister for European Affairs says..... The route is Article 49 and will take 5 years+

Impossible to say how long - but I guess we could look at current candidates to see how long these have been in the process and then understand why Scotland would get in in a sixth of the time.

[MintyChris]

blinkythefish said:

Has been said before that yes is claiming to be all things to all people, but this guy has written a good discussion around it:

http://wakeupscotland.wordpress.com/2014/09/15/ewa...

extract said:

Yes camp had turned itself into a recruitment machine which had to silence dissent and differences between the many clashing interest groups under its banner. This was what YES had started to mean – it meant YES to everything – everything is possible – so don’t question anything. You couldn’t talk about what would happen after the referendum because then all the conflicts between all the different desires and factions would emerge.

I've mentioned that before aswell. We have 1 million people in Scotland all routing for yes and every single one of them have their own view and idea about Independence. The yes campaign have made so little plans, answered so little questions and promised everything possible that they have made a vague and clouded, all-encompassing Independence movement.

Its just an extension of their blatant lies. Victory at all costs.

[eharding]

Welshbeef said:

Troubleatmill said:

How easy will it be for Scotland to get into the EU?

Spanish Minister for European Affairs says..... The route is Article 49 and will take 5 years+

Impossible to say how long - but I guess we could look at current candidates to see how long these have been in the process and then understand why Scotland would get in in a sixth of the time.

iScotland would have to wait for Spain to fall apart before the process could even start. As it stands, Spain would veto any application for EU membership by iScotland.

[Axionknight]

Current candidates are:

Albania, Iceland and Macedonia, formal candidates.

Montenegro, Turkey and Serbia undertaking pre-entry negotiations.

All of those nations started talks with the EU in 2010, or earlier. Turkey for example have had their eye on membership since the late 1980's and Macedonia applied in March 2004.

Scotland can do it quicker though, honest,

http://scotreferendum.com/questions/how-long-would...

You may like to note that Scotland isn't in the EU per se, as the above link suggests is, it is in the UK, which is in the EU, leaving the UK means leaving the EU, as confirmed here:

http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/S4_EuropeanandEx...

In my opinion EU membership for iScotland would be very distant, financial control, a small deficit and a stable currency are all required prior to entry, iScotland wouldn't have any of these things.

Edited by Axionknight on Monday 15th September 23:19

[powerstroke]

Troubleatmill said:

A last throw of the dice.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-pol...

Bout time we English had a temper tantrum !!! Never mind fking bribing them let's answer the west lothian question and sort out the Barnet formula if they vote no ,sending brown in, that !! Christ what's wrong with our great leaders anyone can spray money about we dont need that tt to fk us anymore!!don't they ever learn???

[Funk]

Axionknight said:

Current candidates are:

Albania, Iceland and Macedonia, formal candidates.

Montenegro, Turkey and Serbia undertaking pre-entry negotiations.

All of those nations started talks with the EU in 2010, or earlier. Turkey for example have had their eye on membership since the late 1980's and Macedonia applied in March 2004.

Scotland can do it quicker though, honest,

http://scotreferendum.com/questions/how-long-would...

How they're allowed to get away with those lies is a travesty.

Scotland has NOT been a member of the EU for 40 years, the UK has. Scotland has already been told that it will be 'almost impossible' for it to join the EU (and when the EU says something is 'almost impossible', they mean 'it IS impossible'). Scotland is not being 'booted out' of 'the EU'. It can't be, as it's not in it. What it would be choosing to do, willingly, is to leave the entity which is a member, thereby giving up the benefits of the Union it currently enjoys (along with all the other benefits, money etc).

I refer to my earlier question about why Scotland is so keen to have the EU ram its calloused fingers up its backside without lube anyway.

[Axionknight]

Small, broke member states like iScotland would financially benefit from being in the EU, with the subsidies they would receive and such forth. In my opinion EU membership would be beneficial to iScotland but is detrimental to the UK in the form of its current membership, which isn't what was voted for.

[davepoth]

eharding said:

iScotland would have to wait for Spain to fall apart before the process could even start. As it stands, Spain would veto any application for EU membership by iScotland.

Spain wouldn't do that as it's counterproductive. All it has to do is insist the membership tests are followed properly, which in this case is as good as a veto but without the grandstanding.

[eharding]

davepoth said:

eharding said:

iScotland would have to wait for Spain to fall apart before the process could even start. As it stands, Spain would veto any application for EU membership by iScotland.

Spain wouldn't do that as it's counterproductive. All it has to do is insist the membership tests are followed properly, which in this case is as good as a veto but without the grandstanding.

Granted. But the intent, the target audience, and - most importantly - the net effect remain the same.

[E24man]

davepoth said:

eharding said:

iScotland would have to wait for Spain to fall apart before the process could even start. As it stands, Spain would veto any application for EU membership by iScotland.

Spain wouldn't do that as it's counterproductive. All it has to do is insist the membership tests are followed properly, which in this case is as good as a veto but without the grandstanding.

Spain does lots of counter-productive things - why would they change their tactics and give hope to their Basque problem whilst supporting a fragmented new country on the other side of Europe?