Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 6
Discussion
"Scotland’s most senior civil servant put businesses under pressure to stay silent about independence, The Telegraph can disclose.
Sir Peter Housden, the permanent secretary of the Scottish government, contacted organisations that were seen to favour the Union and told them to “keep out” of the debate.
One person, who received a telephone call from the civil servant, said Sir Peter warned that it was “inappropriate” to get involved. A second person said Sir Peter had “torn strips” off him after he raised questions about independence.
As a civil servant, Sir Peter is supposed to be independent. "
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-in...
Sir Peter Housden, the permanent secretary of the Scottish government, contacted organisations that were seen to favour the Union and told them to “keep out” of the debate.
One person, who received a telephone call from the civil servant, said Sir Peter warned that it was “inappropriate” to get involved. A second person said Sir Peter had “torn strips” off him after he raised questions about independence.
As a civil servant, Sir Peter is supposed to be independent. "
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-in...
Gaz. said:
Funk said:
There has been surprisingly little scrutiny of the rampant promises being made by Westminster and I don't agree with any of them. We should not be bribing Scotland to stay just as you don't 'reward' a child's temper tantrums and foot-stamping with toys and sweets just to 'shut them up'.
This isn't going to go away, I'm afraid the Yestapo have opened a Pandora's Box and the rUK is starting to peer closely at the contents. I hope it's a Yes on Thursday, and a hard line taken in negotiations going forward.
I was thinking that the other day when it transpires that taxpayers who live in the south-east of England make the biggest income tax contribution, with 28 of the top 30 regions located in Surrey, Buckinghamshire, Hertfordshire, Berkshire & Kent. The UK average income tax per tax payer is just under £5k, the Home Counties listed are between £9k-£16k. For Scotland the mean average is £4.2k. London as a whole so including the dregs of Tower Hamlets is a touch under £9k. London has 13% of the population but generates 22% of GDP, with the Home Counties that figure is 38% of the UK's GDP from 17 million people. Scotland (with oil) makes 10% of the UK#s GDP with 5.5 million people. Typical Scottish council tax is £1149, for the South East £1381 and London £1296.This isn't going to go away, I'm afraid the Yestapo have opened a Pandora's Box and the rUK is starting to peer closely at the contents. I hope it's a Yes on Thursday, and a hard line taken in negotiations going forward.
Government spending: Scotland £10152 per capita, London £9435 and the evil toff b
ds of the South East £7638.Thanks to the Yestapo to opening our eyes, that's a hell of a lot of leverage that's been unearthed and David Cameron, you can stick Devo Max up your arse.
if a yes vote, I imagine we'll see a huge amount of public money spent on either assisting with the creation of a new nation or substantial subsidies offered to encourage development..... I could of course be entirely wrong
Walford said:
Do you really believe Portugal Greece and Cyprus meet the criteria
If Portugal, Greece, and Cyprus were applying to join the EU now, they may not. But the fact remains that they are already members, they are signatories to all the relevant treaties. Scotland is not. The UK is, but if Scotland leaves the UK, they leave the EU. This has been made abundantly clear.Scotland needs to find some way of persuading countries like Spain to agree to their entry. If they don't qualify under the existing rules, they are going to have to find some way of getting the other countries to not only agree, but also to agree to the rules being broken. How is it going to do it?
Gaspode said:
If Portugal, Greece, and Cyprus were applying to join the EU now, they may not. But the fact remains that they are already members, they are signatories to all the relevant treaties. Scotland is not. The UK is, but if Scotland leaves the UK, they leave the EU. This has been made abundantly clear.
Scotland needs to find some way of persuading countries like Spain to agree to their entry. If they don't qualify under the existing rules, they are going to have to find some way of getting the other countries to not only agree, but also to agree to the rules being broken. How is it going to do it?
Salmond will say and it will be so, for salmond is right and anyone who disagrees with him is wrong or a traitorous, Tory, etc etcScotland needs to find some way of persuading countries like Spain to agree to their entry. If they don't qualify under the existing rules, they are going to have to find some way of getting the other countries to not only agree, but also to agree to the rules being broken. How is it going to do it?
Gaspode said:
Walford said:
Do you really believe Portugal Greece and Cyprus meet the criteria
If Portugal, Greece, and Cyprus were applying to join the EU now, they may not. But the fact remains that they are already members, they are signatories to all the relevant treaties. Scotland is not. The UK is, but if Scotland leaves the UK, they leave the EU. This has been made abundantly clear.Scotland needs to find some way of persuading countries like Spain to agree to their entry. If they don't qualify under the existing rules, they are going to have to find some way of getting the other countries to not only agree, but also to agree to the rules being broken. How is it going to do it?
.
Walford said:
the EU is obsessed with expansion, if a little green man rocked up in Brussels and asked if Pluto could join, the answer would be Yes
.
That is complete b.
ks. We've already been told that there won't be any new members for at least five years.ETA: as an example Turkey became an associate member in 1963, they applied to become a full member in 1987, today Turkey is not yet a full member.
Edited by HenryJM on Tuesday 16th September 07:18
HenryJM said:
Walford said:
the EU is obsessed with expansion, if a little green man rocked up in Brussels and asked if Pluto could join, the answer would be Yes
.
That is complete b.
ks. We've already been told that there won't be any new members for at least five years.Ukraine's lawmakers are set to ratify a landmark EU association agreement
Both sides will start the procedure at 10:00 GMT, in what Ukraine's president said would be a "historic" day.
But the implementation of a free trade deal - part of the package - has been postponed until 2016, apparently under pressure from Russia.
Walford said:
HenryJM said:
Walford said:
the EU is obsessed with expansion, if a little green man rocked up in Brussels and asked if Pluto could join, the answer would be Yes
.
That is complete b.
ks. We've already been told that there won't be any new members for at least five years.Ukraine's lawmakers are set to ratify a landmark EU association agreement
Both sides will start the procedure at 10:00 GMT, in what Ukraine's president said would be a "historic" day.
But the implementation of a free trade deal - part of the package - has been postponed until 2016, apparently under pressure from Russia.
toohuge said:
Gaz. said:
Funk said:
There has been surprisingly little scrutiny of the rampant promises being made by Westminster and I don't agree with any of them. We should not be bribing Scotland to stay just as you don't 'reward' a child's temper tantrums and foot-stamping with toys and sweets just to 'shut them up'.
This isn't going to go away, I'm afraid the Yestapo have opened a Pandora's Box and the rUK is starting to peer closely at the contents. I hope it's a Yes on Thursday, and a hard line taken in negotiations going forward.
I was thinking that the other day when it transpires that taxpayers who live in the south-east of England make the biggest income tax contribution, with 28 of the top 30 regions located in Surrey, Buckinghamshire, Hertfordshire, Berkshire & Kent. The UK average income tax per tax payer is just under £5k, the Home Counties listed are between £9k-£16k. For Scotland the mean average is £4.2k. London as a whole so including the dregs of Tower Hamlets is a touch under £9k. London has 13% of the population but generates 22% of GDP, with the Home Counties that figure is 38% of the UK's GDP from 17 million people. Scotland (with oil) makes 10% of the UK#s GDP with 5.5 million people. Typical Scottish council tax is £1149, for the South East £1381 and London £1296.This isn't going to go away, I'm afraid the Yestapo have opened a Pandora's Box and the rUK is starting to peer closely at the contents. I hope it's a Yes on Thursday, and a hard line taken in negotiations going forward.
Government spending: Scotland £10152 per capita, London £9435 and the evil toff b
ds of the South East £7638.Thanks to the Yestapo to opening our eyes, that's a hell of a lot of leverage that's been unearthed and David Cameron, you can stick Devo Max up your arse.
if a yes vote, I imagine we'll see a huge amount of public money spent on either assisting with the creation of a new nation or substantial subsidies offered to encourage development..... I could of course be entirely wrong
If enough people want a hard line taken in negotiations should there be a Yes then they have more to lose by angering the electorate than pandering to a foreign country that no longer matters.
I think we will see the GE postponed in the event of a Yes.
Gaz. said:
Funk said:
There has been surprisingly little scrutiny of the rampant promises being made by Westminster and I don't agree with any of them. We should not be bribing Scotland to stay just as you don't 'reward' a child's temper tantrums and foot-stamping with toys and sweets just to 'shut them up'.
This isn't going to go away, I'm afraid the Yestapo have opened a Pandora's Box and the rUK is starting to peer closely at the contents. I hope it's a Yes on Thursday, and a hard line taken in negotiations going forward.
I was thinking that the other day when it transpires that taxpayers who live in the south-east of England make the biggest income tax contribution, with 28 of the top 30 regions located in Surrey, Buckinghamshire, Hertfordshire, Berkshire & Kent. The UK average income tax per tax payer is just under £5k, the Home Counties listed are between £9k-£16k. For Scotland the mean average is £4.2k. London as a whole so including the dregs of Tower Hamlets is a touch under £9k. London has 13% of the population but generates 22% of GDP, with the Home Counties that figure is 38% of the UK's GDP from 17 million people. Scotland (with oil) makes 10% of the UK#s GDP with 5.5 million people. Typical Scottish council tax is £1149, for the South East £1381 and London £1296.This isn't going to go away, I'm afraid the Yestapo have opened a Pandora's Box and the rUK is starting to peer closely at the contents. I hope it's a Yes on Thursday, and a hard line taken in negotiations going forward.
Government spending: Scotland £10152 per capita, London £9435 and the evil toff b
ds of the South East £7638.Thanks to the Yestapo to opening our eyes, that's a hell of a lot of leverage that's been unearthed and David Cameron, you can stick Devo Max up your arse.
I caught a brief statement on R4 this morning that mentioned even with addition tax raising powers, the Barnett formula won’t be adjusted to allow for Scotland’s additional income. So while the three parties try to placate the scots, the rest of us are meant to just accept a worse deal.
Matt Sketch said:
This is an area that really annoys me about this whole campaign. While I hope that Scotland stays in the union, I am concerned that the appeasement campaign is being fought with little thought of the rest of the UK.
I caught a brief statement on R4 this morning that mentioned even with addition tax raising powers, the Barnett formula won’t be adjusted to allow for Scotland’s additional income. So while the three parties try to placate the scots, the rest of us are meant to just accept a worse deal.
Open goal for UKIP who've been suspiciously quiet...?I caught a brief statement on R4 this morning that mentioned even with addition tax raising powers, the Barnett formula won’t be adjusted to allow for Scotland’s additional income. So while the three parties try to placate the scots, the rest of us are meant to just accept a worse deal.
Funk said:
Open goal for UKIP who've been suspiciously quiet...?
I hope not, but I do hope there will be a public backlash against any overt bias towards Scotland in the event of a NO. As has been said before, a lot of things which have been given little real interest in the past are under the spotlight at the moment and I hope it’s going to cause some difficult questions to be asked 
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