Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 6
Discussion
On the other hand it may lead to someone actually gripping the (ha) thistle and openly moving to tackle the things that concern people but are un PC to mention, rather than patronising the electorate causing the rise of UKIP, etc. Cameron removed Devo Max from the ballot as a means to spike it (like he did by refusing full PR to the Lib Dems earlier), but misjudged just how alien Westminster feels to many Scots.
I'll almost certainly be voting No, but sticking it to Blair, Brown, Cameron, Milliband/Balls and Clegg has such an amazing appeal that I'd be afraid to go to the polls drunk, just in case!
The real lesson they need to learn, if they are going to have an in/out EU referendum next parliament (we'll see how long they think that's a good idea after Cleggs pasting by Farage) is that as a class they can no longer afford to break pledges and ride roughshod over public opinion, even if it costs them in the short term. Salmond may stand for independence at any cost, but that almost makes him a conviction politician compared to, say, Clegg.
I'll almost certainly be voting No, but sticking it to Blair, Brown, Cameron, Milliband/Balls and Clegg has such an amazing appeal that I'd be afraid to go to the polls drunk, just in case!
The real lesson they need to learn, if they are going to have an in/out EU referendum next parliament (we'll see how long they think that's a good idea after Cleggs pasting by Farage) is that as a class they can no longer afford to break pledges and ride roughshod over public opinion, even if it costs them in the short term. Salmond may stand for independence at any cost, but that almost makes him a conviction politician compared to, say, Clegg.
Funk said:
I can't help getting the feeling that there are some devious reverse psychology tricks being played.
It's almost like the UK has to appear to want Scotland to stay when in fact it doesn't, almost like it's faux sincerity. Salmond has been given too easy a ride over all this.
I was thinking this on the drive to work this morning. It's a perfectly plausible theory... High fives and chest bumps in Westminster on the 19th?It's almost like the UK has to appear to want Scotland to stay when in fact it doesn't, almost like it's faux sincerity. Salmond has been given too easy a ride over all this.
E24man said:
A genuine question for any Scottish residents and voters.
Regardless of whether the decision on Friday morning is Yes or No, how much damage do you think has been caused to Scotland's reputation, brands, products, tourism and industry by the conduct of the Yes campaign and in particular the very obvious anti-English sentiments that however commonplace or rare quite naturally have received a lot of press within your largest neighbour and trading partner?
Irreparable. Answered in one word.Regardless of whether the decision on Friday morning is Yes or No, how much damage do you think has been caused to Scotland's reputation, brands, products, tourism and industry by the conduct of the Yes campaign and in particular the very obvious anti-English sentiments that however commonplace or rare quite naturally have received a lot of press within your largest neighbour and trading partner?
As a Scottish resident and a no voter, what I've seen is scary.
My local town centre was like yes central on Saturday. I saw people who had elected to wear 'no' badges sworn at and heckled. In addition I saw people who didn't want to show their political affiliation treated as no voters (therefore seen as hostile) sworn at and heckled.
Online (my Facebook and Twitter) I've seen behaviour/language/threats that outside of the referendum would have people arrested. But as it's a political view it's seen as okay.
In my friend group, I have one friend who is a firm yes voter and his behaviour can be likened to the above. In the course of one conversation I was called:
Traitor
Embarrassment
English loving b
d'How could I look someone in the eye singing flower of Scotland and declare you love your country then vote no? You're just a Tory b
d - look what they did to us in the 70's' I'm a labour voter. And he was born in 86.
After the election is over, if it's a 'Yes' vote, we'll never hear the end of it. If it's a 'No' vote, the contingent as I've noted above will royally kick off about vote rigging, it's a fix or any other ridiculous reason other than the rest of the country didn't want it. And we'll never hear the end of it.
Someone earlier likened the situation to trying to convince someone not to jump off a cliff while handcuffed to someone who really didn't want to jump. But they jumped anyway.
It's a real worry - and there's going to be a mess to clean up afterwards.
Guam said:
Indeed whatever the result on Friday, lots of English folk will likely stay away from Scotland for a very long time due to the behaviour in this campaign.
No one would want to be subjected to what we see happening on a Holiday.
What level of impact it will have is of course speculative, its likely going to be extensive however imho.
Indeed, I know some people due to visit next week who are having second thoughts. No one would want to be subjected to what we see happening on a Holiday.
What level of impact it will have is of course speculative, its likely going to be extensive however imho.
To quote a Danish acquaintance "we're watching with interest".
Borghetto said:
I do not buy anything from Scotland, nor shall I in the future. I noticed Campbell's soups were being heavilly discounted in Waitrose today, are English consumers starting to react. Slum landlords like Fluff feel they are insulated against any backlash, but I expect as the Edinburgh Nazis run out of other peoples money to spend, he'll find his gravy train comes to an abrubt halt - good, he can stew with the other nationalist fools.
Why?The chances are if you are buying something made in Scotland it will of been been made by someone who is voting NO.
You can bet who owns the company is also voting NO
We are not all as thick as fluff and co
We don't all think the english are limited in intelligence like edinburgh thinks
Derek Smith said:
Whatever the vote, what are the odds that Salmond will reckon it is a victory for the SNP?
Is he likely to suggest that it was what he was after all along?
Two winners Camaroon and salmond, as its unlikely that after devo max, the English will accept 59 MP,s voting on even more issues that are devolved to there own ParliamentIs he likely to suggest that it was what he was after all along?
Labour Party 40
Liberal Democrats 11
Scottish National Party 6
Conservative Party 1
Independent 1
Total 59
I know it's not the done thing to wish for this, but I'd love to see someone smack him in the mouth so hard his eyes fall out. He's an infuriating, obfuscating, manipulative, lying, odious toad wker of a man who's so full of spin I'm suprised he can keep his balance. I can't look at hime without thinking of Baron Greenback.
This is causing massive divisions in families. Radio 4 (or maybe 5) yesterday afternoon had a discussion between a grandfather and grand daughter, he voted no and she yes. It was really sad hearing the distance between them. I felt really sorry for the old boy, if Yes get their way then the futures of millions of Scots will be changed against their will, causing ructions and having an impact, well, forever. The nats have created a broken, viscious, nasty, chippy little country. There is no stopping independence now. If it doesn't happen tomorrow then it'll happen within our lifetimes. A No vote will not be permitted to stand for long. And England will sure as eggs is eggs be putting pressure on their Imperial Masters to start to play hard ball.
It's a massive blow to what any of us have ever known.
You should never out-live your kids.
You should never out-live your country.
Yes party be ashamed of yourselves. And stay up there. We don't want you down here when it all goes tits up.
ker of a man who's so full of spin I'm suprised he can keep his balance. I can't look at hime without thinking of Baron Greenback. This is causing massive divisions in families. Radio 4 (or maybe 5) yesterday afternoon had a discussion between a grandfather and grand daughter, he voted no and she yes. It was really sad hearing the distance between them. I felt really sorry for the old boy, if Yes get their way then the futures of millions of Scots will be changed against their will, causing ructions and having an impact, well, forever. The nats have created a broken, viscious, nasty, chippy little country. There is no stopping independence now. If it doesn't happen tomorrow then it'll happen within our lifetimes. A No vote will not be permitted to stand for long. And England will sure as eggs is eggs be putting pressure on their Imperial Masters to start to play hard ball.
It's a massive blow to what any of us have ever known.
You should never out-live your kids.
You should never out-live your country.
Yes party be ashamed of yourselves. And stay up there. We don't want you down here when it all goes tits up.
Greg66 said:
I have just had to turn off the radio. Salmond is on the Today Programme, and me shouting at the radio in fury is not an edifying slight.
Let me guess how it went:"blah blah, Bluff and Bluster......blah, blah.....scaremongering.....blah, blah......common sense......blah, blah......brass plaque......"
OpulentBob said:
This is causing massive divisions in families. Radio 4 (or maybe 5) yesterday afternoon had a discussion between a grandfather and grand daughter, he voted no and she yes. It was really sad hearing the distance between them. I felt really sorry for the old boy, if Yes get their way then the futures of millions of Scots will be changed against their will, causing ructions and having an impact, well, forever.
Yep - a while back I questioned whether this referendum could have a similar impact on families and communities in Scotland as the miners strike in the 80s did in England/Wales.There are families and communities in many coal mining areas that still feel the effects of that to this day - due to different people taking different sides of the argument.
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/bae-indicate-shipy...
Biggest sign yet that the ship yards will close on a yes vote.
Biggest sign yet that the ship yards will close on a yes vote.
OpulentBob said:
. . . . . . . . . And stay up there. We don't want you down here when it all goes tits up.
If there is a significant exodus from iScotland it won't, in the main, be the yes voters. They appear to be those who want a full socialist republic and, as such, take more than they contribute, haven't the aptitude to be attractive for work and generally can't afford to move. It will be a classic 'brain drain' where the brightest cookies will up sticks - the ones that contribute more than they consume and are eminently employable. The companies left will start to see a dearth of good employees and, coupled with the inevitable increase in taxation, will move south of the border where they will be welcomed with open arms as contributors to the economic growth of rUK. When the standards of living twixt iScotland and rUK diverge to the benefit of rUK then rUK becomes ever more attractive to those who are employable. Thereby a vicious downward spiral commences and continues. This will, of course, be a dangerous rebalancing for iScotland as those contributing wealth inexorably decrease and the socialist republic will be plunged into a fiscal nightmare.fluffnik said:
Wills2 said:
I loved the way Salmond brushed aside the notion that an independent Scotland would be foreign nation, you've got to laugh.
It's won't be, it's the rUK that'll be the foreign land! 
A.J.M said:
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/bae-indicate-shipy...
Biggest sign yet that the ship yards will close on a yes vote.
Despite Sturgeon's statement in that article that the T26s can only be built on the Clyde, optional programmes for the T26s are already matured.Biggest sign yet that the ship yards will close on a yes vote.
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