Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 6
Discussion
Twilkes said:
What are you basing that view on? Are the Yes folk just a very vocal large minority? There are a lot of them, and they have been very persuasive - still lots of videos and posts on social media promoting oil reserves and save the NHS and 'get the government you vote for'.... I'm nervous. 
A week ago we had one poll that showed a swing to 'Yes' since then all but one has shown 'No' leading (and the one that didn't was the smallest polling sample).I'm nervous too but I think that there are a lot of people put off by the aggression of the 'Yes' campaign.
Moonhawk said:
Let me guess how it went:
"blah blah, Bluff and Bluster......blah, blah.....scaremongering.....blah, blah......common sense......blah, blah......brass plaque......"
"We'll use the pound""blah blah, Bluff and Bluster......blah, blah.....scaremongering.....blah, blah......common sense......blah, blah......brass plaque......"
"Without the BoE?"
"That's not our proposal. Alistair Darling said we could use the pound in the second debate. When we win there will be a currency union".
"Darling said you could use the pound *without* a central bank".
"No he didn't".
Wishlist, proposal, certainty. They are all synonyms in iScotland, it seems.
My missus, who is Yugoslav and fled the country when the shooting started, has declared that she's terrified what all this s
t stirring in Scotland could lead to, seeing as nobody thought such horror would ever happen in Yugoslavia before it all kicked off.
I must say I think that's a little dramatic and don't believe the same could happen here, but that's what they were saying over there in the late 80s.
:-(
I'm hoping for a "NO", but fear that won't be the end of the matter. Further st will be stirred until the Nationalists get their way. Hopefully peacefully, but there's no guarantee of that.
:-(
Either way, my country isn't what it was any more, it's become a worse and more dangerous place due to blind Nationalism.
:-(
Sad times, thanks Scotland.
:-(
t stirring in Scotland could lead to, seeing as nobody thought such horror would ever happen in Yugoslavia before it all kicked off.I must say I think that's a little dramatic and don't believe the same could happen here, but that's what they were saying over there in the late 80s.
:-(
I'm hoping for a "NO", but fear that won't be the end of the matter. Further s
t will be stirred until the Nationalists get their way. Hopefully peacefully, but there's no guarantee of that.:-(
Either way, my country isn't what it was any more, it's become a worse and more dangerous place due to blind Nationalism.
:-(
Sad times, thanks Scotland.
:-(
On the matter of defence and costs....
“Illustrative of this trend, Italian fighter aircraft earlier this year had to intercept a rogue airliner over Switzerland, as the Swiss Air Force did not operate ‘out of hours’,” explained Hunt.
“Similarly, the Austrian Air Force has cut its 18 Typhoon fighters pilots by a third due to cost concerns. The aircraft are now only operated between 8:00 and 16:00. Such limitations on military capabilities are precisely why the US is likely to view independence as further fragmentation of European defence capabilities.
With regards to fighter aircraft and patrol vessels, operating fighter aircraft will be difficult due to the limited requirement for an independent Scottish combat air capability. This is especially so given the Scottish National Party’s stated aim to focus on domestic security and low-level overseas deployments for peacekeeping operations.
“Since Scotland would lack the force multipliers of intelligence-gathering aircraft, refuelling aircraft and similar, it would be difficult to deploy and support any kind of force without significant assistance from friendly nations,” said Hunt.
“Patrol vessels for protection of fishery and offshore oil installations and other maritime capabilities are perfectly feasible in terms of cost-benefit analysis given Scotland’s geography. In the longer term, Scotland’s offshore interests would include the growing importance of northern waters as a trade route and natural resource exploration."
Source: http://www.janes.com/article/43216/scottish-indepe...
Anyone else thinking iScotland will just say "Meh... let rUK handle any intruders into our airspace"
“Illustrative of this trend, Italian fighter aircraft earlier this year had to intercept a rogue airliner over Switzerland, as the Swiss Air Force did not operate ‘out of hours’,” explained Hunt.
“Similarly, the Austrian Air Force has cut its 18 Typhoon fighters pilots by a third due to cost concerns. The aircraft are now only operated between 8:00 and 16:00. Such limitations on military capabilities are precisely why the US is likely to view independence as further fragmentation of European defence capabilities.
With regards to fighter aircraft and patrol vessels, operating fighter aircraft will be difficult due to the limited requirement for an independent Scottish combat air capability. This is especially so given the Scottish National Party’s stated aim to focus on domestic security and low-level overseas deployments for peacekeeping operations.
“Since Scotland would lack the force multipliers of intelligence-gathering aircraft, refuelling aircraft and similar, it would be difficult to deploy and support any kind of force without significant assistance from friendly nations,” said Hunt.
“Patrol vessels for protection of fishery and offshore oil installations and other maritime capabilities are perfectly feasible in terms of cost-benefit analysis given Scotland’s geography. In the longer term, Scotland’s offshore interests would include the growing importance of northern waters as a trade route and natural resource exploration."
Source: http://www.janes.com/article/43216/scottish-indepe...
Anyone else thinking iScotland will just say "Meh... let rUK handle any intruders into our airspace"
LeftmostAardvark said:
I really feel, that this may be the tipping point for some major political action by the English - social media engineered withholding of a proportion of their tax that relates to the Scottish contribution for instance or major boycotting campaigns, it feels (anecdotally), that there is sufficient anger to actually do something (rather than just moan about it) about the way that the yes campaigners have behaved.
Edit: I think the way the politicians have tripped over themselves to offer additional incentives to try and sway the vote as it gets close will be damaging too - they may have skated right on the edge / stomped all over their constitutional powers
Whilst I am not sure about the first part of your post I am full in agreement with the second part.Edit: I think the way the politicians have tripped over themselves to offer additional incentives to try and sway the vote as it gets close will be damaging too - they may have skated right on the edge / stomped all over their constitutional powers
I am an Englishman, living in England. About the only Scottish thing about me is my surname.
Though out my life I have never had any animosity towards anyone from another Country, other than a select few who have earned it personally! Yes I have often enjoyed a good few Englishman, Irishman and a Scot jokes over the years and general ribbing here and there but nothing with any malice. On the receiving end I have often enjoyed good hospitality from the Scots I have met when up there and only during Euro'96 did I ever see anything distasteful or suggestive of anti-English sentiment.
I started out hoping for a No vote. I like the Union and wanted Scotland to remain part of it, but not and never at all costs.
I feel that the behaviour of some Scots, mainly but not exclusively, on the Yes side has been appalling.
I feel that Salmond and his supporters have lied their way though the last few months on some very important topics and when seen to be losing have cried bias.
I feel that our Westminster politicians have gone beyond their mandate in what they have offered to Scotland should it vote No, and worse even David Blunkett can see what will happen in the event of a No vote and a backtrack.
So here I am on the Wednesday before the vote, a firm No, turning to an "actually guys, please vote Yes, because if you don't I can see a backlash of epic proportions."
It would not surprise me, in the event of a No vote, to see a campaign starting for an Independent England, possibly even an independent England and Wales. I'm not entirely sure that I will not join in with that.
It's almost coming the point where only a Yes vote will be the lesser of the two evils.
And regarding the Yugoslavia comment above. Yes, it could indeed happen. It's hugely unlikely, but it could. It has in other places seemingly stable, and will again in other places that seem stable today.
And regarding the Yugoslavia comment above. Yes, it could indeed happen. It's hugely unlikely, but it could. It has in other places seemingly stable, and will again in other places that seem stable today.
grand cherokee said:
last night a Sky reporter said that Salmond was playing 'hovercraft politics' - just skimming over the surface
This has been the tactic for the whole 'Yes' campaign. Independence has been sold as having a 100% positive outcome and any potential negative has been rejected, often in a laughable fashion.SilverSixer said:
My missus, who is Yugoslav and fled the country when the shooting started, has declared that she's terrified what all this st stirring in Scotland could lead to, seeing as nobody thought such horror would ever happen in Yugoslavia before it all kicked off.
Small point of order - The only surprising thing about the break up of Yugoslavia to anyone who has read much on European history for the last few hundred years was how long it took to happen post Tito and why it didn't happen within months of the withdrawal of the USSR. Oh hang on, as soon as Tito died it started to fall apart and the war started, to all practical intents, within 18 months of the last tank with a red star rolling over the boarder...t stirring in Scotland could lead to, seeing as nobody thought such horror would ever happen in Yugoslavia before it all kicked off.SilverSixer said:
My missus, who is Yugoslav and fled the country when the shooting started, has declared that she's terrified what all this st stirring in Scotland could lead to, seeing as nobody thought such horror would ever happen in Yugoslavia before it all kicked off.
I must say I think that's a little dramatic and don't believe the same could happen here, but that's what they were saying over there in the late 80s.
Just a little?t stirring in Scotland could lead to, seeing as nobody thought such horror would ever happen in Yugoslavia before it all kicked off.I must say I think that's a little dramatic and don't believe the same could happen here, but that's what they were saying over there in the late 80s.
Rude-boy said:
SilverSixer said:
My missus, who is Yugoslav and fled the country when the shooting started, has declared that she's terrified what all this st stirring in Scotland could lead to, seeing as nobody thought such horror would ever happen in Yugoslavia before it all kicked off.
Small point of order - The only surprising thing about the break up of Yugoslavia to anyone who has read much on European history for the last few hundred years was how long it took to happen post Tito and why it didn't happen within months of the withdrawal of the USSR. Oh hang on, as soon as Tito died it started to fall apart and the war started, to all practical intents, within 18 months of the last tank with a red star rolling over the boarder...t stirring in Scotland could lead to, seeing as nobody thought such horror would ever happen in Yugoslavia before it all kicked off.People should be very careful what they wish for.
Edited by SilverSixer on Wednesday 17th September 11:04
threespires said:
Maybe asked before, but in the event of a Yes vote, what happens to BBC in Scotland ?
I can't see the Scots being willing to pay a licence fee to a foreign country.
We are being offered or will start up the SBC but we will still get the BBC on digital platforms like SKY TV I can't see the Scots being willing to pay a licence fee to a foreign country.
threespires said:
Maybe asked before, but in the event of a Yes vote, what happens to BBC in Scotland ?
I can't see the Scots being willing to pay a licence fee to a foreign country.
I guess BBC Scotland will split from the UK BBC and they will need to agree a program sharing deal or BBC Scotland will have to pay for the content. I can't see the Scots being willing to pay a licence fee to a foreign country.
rUK BBC can simply turn off the transmitters and disconnect most of Scotland and online access can be also restricted.
nick s said:
Am I the only one who thinks it's unfair on us English, to be completely at the mercy of the Scots in this vote? It's a decision that'll completely change our country if the Yes campaign wins. So why don't we get a vote?
Completely - and if there is a No vote and Westminster rolls over and gives Scotland everything, then it will get very, very interesting in a really bad way.threespires said:
Maybe asked before, but in the event of a Yes vote, what happens to BBC in Scotland ?
I can't see the Scots being willing to pay a licence fee to a foreign country.
IIRC, BBC has said they would expect to sell the studios etc to the new owners, and then license the programmes out like they do to the rest of the world. I can't see the Scots being willing to pay a licence fee to a foreign country.
Web-based content wouldn't be affected.
Troubleatmill said:
On the matter of defence and costs....
“Illustrative of this trend, Italian fighter aircraft earlier this year had to intercept a rogue airliner over Switzerland, as the Swiss Air Force did not operate ‘out of hours’,” explained Hunt.
“Similarly, the Austrian Air Force has cut its 18 Typhoon fighters pilots by a third due to cost concerns. The aircraft are now only operated between 8:00 and 16:00. Such limitations on military capabilities are precisely why the US is likely to view independence as further fragmentation of European defence capabilities.
With regards to fighter aircraft and patrol vessels, operating fighter aircraft will be difficult due to the limited requirement for an independent Scottish combat air capability. This is especially so given the Scottish National Party’s stated aim to focus on domestic security and low-level overseas deployments for peacekeeping operations.
“Since Scotland would lack the force multipliers of intelligence-gathering aircraft, refuelling aircraft and similar, it would be difficult to deploy and support any kind of force without significant assistance from friendly nations,” said Hunt.
“Patrol vessels for protection of fishery and offshore oil installations and other maritime capabilities are perfectly feasible in terms of cost-benefit analysis given Scotland’s geography. In the longer term, Scotland’s offshore interests would include the growing importance of northern waters as a trade route and natural resource exploration."
Source: http://www.janes.com/article/43216/scottish-indepe...
Anyone else thinking iScotland will just say "Meh... let rUK handle any intruders into our airspace"
I've posted these before, but they remain an important read. The SNP is fooling itself if it thinks its defence forces will be anything more than a glorfied police force:“Illustrative of this trend, Italian fighter aircraft earlier this year had to intercept a rogue airliner over Switzerland, as the Swiss Air Force did not operate ‘out of hours’,” explained Hunt.
“Similarly, the Austrian Air Force has cut its 18 Typhoon fighters pilots by a third due to cost concerns. The aircraft are now only operated between 8:00 and 16:00. Such limitations on military capabilities are precisely why the US is likely to view independence as further fragmentation of European defence capabilities.
With regards to fighter aircraft and patrol vessels, operating fighter aircraft will be difficult due to the limited requirement for an independent Scottish combat air capability. This is especially so given the Scottish National Party’s stated aim to focus on domestic security and low-level overseas deployments for peacekeeping operations.
“Since Scotland would lack the force multipliers of intelligence-gathering aircraft, refuelling aircraft and similar, it would be difficult to deploy and support any kind of force without significant assistance from friendly nations,” said Hunt.
“Patrol vessels for protection of fishery and offshore oil installations and other maritime capabilities are perfectly feasible in terms of cost-benefit analysis given Scotland’s geography. In the longer term, Scotland’s offshore interests would include the growing importance of northern waters as a trade route and natural resource exploration."
Source: http://www.janes.com/article/43216/scottish-indepe...
Anyone else thinking iScotland will just say "Meh... let rUK handle any intruders into our airspace"
http://thinpinstripedline.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/a...
http://thinpinstripedline.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/a...
http://thinpinstripedline.blogspot.co.uk/2014/04/f...
http://thinpinstripedline.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/a...
http://thinpinstripedline.blogspot.co.uk/2012/01/b...
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff