Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 6

[dcb]

threespires said:

Maybe asked before, but in the event of a Yes vote, what happens to BBC in Scotland ?
I can't see the Scots being willing to pay a licence fee to a foreign country.

Just one of a whole host of divorce issues.

I thought originally it would go 70-30 in favour of No.

That would have left a sizable minority of 30% wanting independence
and not getting it. Something of a problem there.

Later, I thought 60-40 and the problem gets worse.

It's now looking 50-50 either way. That means a lot
of folks are going to be disappointed either way.

Interesting to note that most of Alex Salmond's views
seem to be very socialist i.e. lots of talk about what
nice things to spend money on and very very little about
how it's all going to be paid for.

For me, I am happy for the Scots to paddle their own canoe.
That would mean that we wouldn't need the Barnett formula anymore,
so a lot more money could stay south of Berwick.

[Jader1973]

nick s said:

Am I the only one who thinks it's unfair on us English, to be completely at the mercy of the Scots in this vote? It's a decision that'll completely change our country if the Yes campaign wins. So why don't we get a vote?

I'm not sure England will be worse off financially. Remember Scotland takes more than it gives overall.

From an rUK perspective not a lot changes - 6 million less people to worry about.

And an opportunity to sell goods and services at inflated prices to a country that used to get them for very little because they are now a "foreign country".

[confused_buyer]

Don1 said:

Web-based content wouldn't be affected.

Actually, it would. iPlayer is not officially available outside the UK (yes, I know people do access it using proxies).

[Cobnapint]

Derek Smith said:

I've just seen an interview with Redwood on Sky News. It would appear he is a firm supporter of separatism.

He seems to be the one who wants to carry the torch forward, after the No, for addressing the west lothian question and updating the Barnett formula.


First time I've heard the bloke speak any sense. Bring it on.

[grand cherokee]

I think that in the event of a yes vote the Queen should refuse any involvement in Scotland

the Act of Union has been dissolved so Scotland should go back to its own monarchy - enter King Salmon(d)

[Garvin]

ralphrj said:

grand cherokee said:

last night a Sky reporter said that Salmond was playing 'hovercraft politics' - just skimming over the surface

This has been the tactic for the whole 'Yes' campaign. Independence has been sold as having a 100% positive outcome and any potential negative has been rejected, often in a laughable fashion.

The yes campaign have no option but to play the game this way as almost all their 'promises' and policies complete fall apart on even the most cursory scrutiny. I believe Salmond is 'toast' whatever the vote. Sooner if it is a no vote as his credibility is trashed - he will try and hang on but nobody is going to take him seriously. In the event of a yes vote it will be a longer, lingering 'death' as it will take some time for the realities to come out, but come out they surely must and even Salmond will not survive it.

[juice]

Just wondering....in the event of a Yes vote could Shetland & Orkey choose to remain part of the union, separate from iScotland ?

[Rude-boy]

SilverSixer said:

Excuse me? The USSR was never in Yugoslavia in any way, Yugoslavia was a non-aligned neutral country, it wasn't even in the Warsaw Pact. If we want to get facts straight, let's do so. The fact also remains that the vast majority of ordinary people in Yugoslavia never believed that any break up of the country would unfold in the way it did and people there are still horrified, confused and disgusted about the way it turned out. People lived cheek by jowl with other nationalities quite happily, my in-law family is made up of many cross-national/religious elements, none of who ever envisaged nor desired a break-up, let alone such a catastrophically violent one. I speak as someone with not only personal and anecdotal knowledge of the situation, but formal education in the history and languages of the Slavic region.

People should be very careful what they wish for.

You obviously have an excellent knowledge and experience of the area and you are of course quite correct to correct my over simplification and the incorrect impression I have given that it was treated in the same way as the WP countries. The very reason it was never invaded in the same way as the others is due to it going down the Communist route it's own way, much the same as Franco did on the other side of the coin in Spain.

Whilst the feeling on the ground may well have been one of cohesiveness and in it together one could very much say the same of the UK. We have our petty squabbles but George and Iain are very much great mates and work together. Sadly though as happens in any time of political turmoil the extremist factions start to gain traction and with them the historic 'them and us' battle lines became redrawn. Like the UK, Italy, Spain and many other European Countries Yugoslavia was a mongrel state of smaller states. Without the totalitarian (or single national political vision) glue to hold them together and suppress or sate the extremist separatists it started to unravel very quickly.

It is almost a wonder that the Spanish have not suffered the same fate, but fortunately for them Franco had allowed them to integrate with the rest of Europe sufficiently that by the time of his departure the Economic and political conditions were not conducive to separatism gaining any real ground.

Events in Scotland, and the current economic mess, however appear to be straining matters further. Just look a the squirrel Gibraltar issue, if that is not a politically engineered distraction from matters of greater internal concern it's hard to realistically see the alternatives.

[Rovinghawk]

Garvin said:

In the event of a yes vote it will be a longer, lingering 'death' as it will take some time for the realities to come out, but come out they surely must and even Salmond will not survive it.

The Weegies tend not to mess about- when it eventually dawns that they've been sold down the river I could honestly see Salmond being lynched in the street.

[Garvin]

Don1 said:

threespires said:

Maybe asked before, but in the event of a Yes vote, what happens to BBC in Scotland ?
I can't see the Scots being willing to pay a licence fee to a foreign country.

IIRC, BBC has said they would expect to sell the studios etc to the new owners, and then license the programmes out like they do to the rest of the world.

Web-based content wouldn't be affected.

Who is going to buy the BBC assets and with what? Diversion of NHS or other welfare budget? Bigger deficit/borrowing - just who is going to lend to iScotland? Their finances will be stretched to the limit trying to cater for all the other start up costs of their independence!

[ofcorsa]

DMN said:

Troubleatmill said:

On the matter of defence and costs....

“Illustrative of this trend, Italian fighter aircraft earlier this year had to intercept a rogue airliner over Switzerland, as the Swiss Air Force did not operate ‘out of hours’,” explained Hunt.

“Similarly, the Austrian Air Force has cut its 18 Typhoon fighters pilots by a third due to cost concerns. The aircraft are now only operated between 8:00 and 16:00. Such limitations on military capabilities are precisely why the US is likely to view independence as further fragmentation of European defence capabilities.

With regards to fighter aircraft and patrol vessels, operating fighter aircraft will be difficult due to the limited requirement for an independent Scottish combat air capability. This is especially so given the Scottish National Party’s stated aim to focus on domestic security and low-level overseas deployments for peacekeeping operations.

“Since Scotland would lack the force multipliers of intelligence-gathering aircraft, refuelling aircraft and similar, it would be difficult to deploy and support any kind of force without significant assistance from friendly nations,” said Hunt.

“Patrol vessels for protection of fishery and offshore oil installations and other maritime capabilities are perfectly feasible in terms of cost-benefit analysis given Scotland’s geography. In the longer term, Scotland’s offshore interests would include the growing importance of northern waters as a trade route and natural resource exploration."



Source: http://www.janes.com/article/43216/scottish-indepe...


Anyone else thinking iScotland will just say "Meh... let rUK handle any intruders into our airspace"

I've posted these before, but they remain an important read. The SNP is fooling itself if it thinks its defence forces will be anything more than a glorfied police force:

http://thinpinstripedline.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/a...
http://thinpinstripedline.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/a...
http://thinpinstripedline.blogspot.co.uk/2014/04/f...
http://thinpinstripedline.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/a...
http://thinpinstripedline.blogspot.co.uk/2012/01/b...

That’s actually a point I hadn’t considered. If the oil fields and fishing grounds are as rich pickings as the SNP believe they will need to be policed and protected

[rovermorris999]

threespires said:

Maybe asked before, but in the event of a Yes vote, what happens to BBC in Scotland ?
I can't see the Scots being willing to pay a licence fee to a foreign country.

We should gift the BBC to Scotland. It'd be happy there.

[FiF]

Rude-boy said:

Whilst I am not sure about the first part of your post I am full in agreement with the second part.

I am an Englishman, living in England. About the only Scottish thing about me is my surname.

Though out my life I have never had any animosity towards anyone from another Country, other than a select few who have earned it personally! Yes I have often enjoyed a good few Englishman, Irishman and a Scot jokes over the years and general ribbing here and there but nothing with any malice. On the receiving end I have often enjoyed good hospitality from the Scots I have met when up there and only during Euro'96 did I ever see anything distasteful or suggestive of anti-English sentiment.

I started out hoping for a No vote. I like the Union and wanted Scotland to remain part of it, but not and never at all costs.

I feel that the behaviour of some Scots, mainly but not exclusively, on the Yes side has been appalling.

I feel that Salmond and his supporters have lied their way though the last few months on some very important topics and when seen to be losing have cried bias.

I feel that our Westminster politicians have gone beyond their mandate in what they have offered to Scotland should it vote No, and worse even David Blunkett can see what will happen in the event of a No vote and a backtrack.

So here I am on the Wednesday before the vote, a firm No, turning to an "actually guys, please vote Yes, because if you don't I can see a backlash of epic proportions."

It would not surprise me, in the event of a No vote, to see a campaign starting for an Independent England, possibly even an independent England and Wales. I'm not entirely sure that I will not join in with that.

A post which sums up my views.

Have kept out of the independence threads for largely selfish reasons. I have been apalled at how the debate has gone and has surpassed what expected.

Yes I expected the nationalists to behave like this as I have experienced their hatred of who they think is English.

The first time experienced was as a school boy in the 60s and wandered into the local shop in St Fillans to see if I could get my hands on a copy of Motoring News. The shopkeeper was just plain funking rude and uncooperative.

Until I then did a transaction at the Post Office counter and he sussed out my Scottish name. There was a Motoring News there waiting for me a few days later.

Personally my hope for a no vote is disappearing fast, probably disappeared. If it is a no vote don't want it to be close but crushing defeat for the liar Salmond.

[Garvin]

Rovinghawk said:

Garvin said:

In the event of a yes vote it will be a longer, lingering 'death' as it will take some time for the realities to come out, but come out they surely must and even Salmond will not survive it.

The Weegies tend not to mess about- when it eventually dawns that they've been sold down the river I could honestly see Salmond being lynched in the street.

I predict he will survive for some time using the 'it's everybody else's fault' approach which has served him well so far and the yes voters are willing to believe. But when the realities hit them in the pocket a fair few will side with the no voters and in the fullness of time Salmond and the rest of the SNP will be crushed at the next elections.

However, I have a sneaking suspicion that Salmond may desert the sinking ship if the yes vote is carried. He will bask in the success of leading Scotland to independence then smartly exit the situation for some comfy 'Blair' type existence leaving it to others to sweep up the mess he knows, deep down, is coming.

[Bluebarge]

Rude-boy said:

It is almost a wonder that the Spanish have not suffered the same fate, but fortunately for them Franco had allowed them to integrate with the rest of Europe sufficiently that by the time of his departure the Economic and political conditions were not conducive to separatism gaining any real ground.

Erm, Spain was not at all integrated with Europe under Franco - that happened after his death. Franco kept a lid on separatist movements by throwing their members in jail.

Spain has kept a lid on separatism since then by granting high levels of autonomy to the regions, but Catalonia is still agitating for complete separation, and is watching the Scottish referendum closely. That is why there is zero chance of a Madrid govt. allowing iScotland into the EU, beause this is the major plank of the Catalan argument for independence - that it will continue under the EU umbrella and doesn't need Spain.

[Esseesse]

grand cherokee said:

last night a Sky reporter said that Salmond was playing 'hovercraft politics' - just skimming over the surface

in the even of a no vote i imagine the SNP will be wiped out in the general election by Labour - and probably will be insignificant in political terms for at least ten years

As much as I dislike the Labour party I wish them all the best against the SNP.

[Rovinghawk]

Regardless of who wins, I believe that it would be better for everyone if it's with a decent majority.

The nearer the vote is to 50/50, the greater the feeling of injustice for the losing party.

[williamp]

Remember who the last king of scotland was...




i wonder if anyone will be brave enough to show the film tomorrow night...

[Langweilig]

rovermorris999 said:

threespires said:

Maybe asked before, but in the event of a Yes vote, what happens to BBC in Scotland ?
I can't see the Scots being willing to pay a licence fee to a foreign country.

We should gift the BBC to Scotland. It'd be happy there.

Not necessary. the iScots have already made plans.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm9I4hbyY6M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=st8uIAAJ368

Edited by Langweilig on Wednesday 17th September 11:34

[Nick Grant]

Just been out for a coffee, interesting at the top of Leith walk as the Yes and No camps have set up stalls next to each other The No are busier but they have set up where there is more footfall.