Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 6

Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 6

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Rovinghawk

13,300 posts

157 months

Wednesday 17th September 2014
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ash73 said:
Stop believing what the tory papers tell you and think for yourself, nobody will veto anything it's a negotiation.
What's in Spain's best interests?

DMN

2,983 posts

138 months

Wednesday 17th September 2014
quotequote all
Rovinghawk said:
What's in Spain's best interests?
Whatever Alex tells them.

grand cherokee

2,432 posts

198 months

Wednesday 17th September 2014
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schmalex said:
FiF said:
Rude-boy said:
Whilst I am not sure about the first part of your post I am full in agreement with the second part.

I am an Englishman, living in England. About the only Scottish thing about me is my surname.

Though out my life I have never had any animosity towards anyone from another Country, other than a select few who have earned it personally! Yes I have often enjoyed a good few Englishman, Irishman and a Scot jokes over the years and general ribbing here and there but nothing with any malice. On the receiving end I have often enjoyed good hospitality from the Scots I have met when up there and only during Euro'96 did I ever see anything distasteful or suggestive of anti-English sentiment.

I started out hoping for a No vote. I like the Union and wanted Scotland to remain part of it, but not and never at all costs.

I feel that the behaviour of some Scots, mainly but not exclusively, on the Yes side has been appalling.

I feel that Salmond and his supporters have lied their way though the last few months on some very important topics and when seen to be losing have cried bias.

I feel that our Westminster politicians have gone beyond their mandate in what they have offered to Scotland should it vote No, and worse even David Blunkett can see what will happen in the event of a No vote and a backtrack.

So here I am on the Wednesday before the vote, a firm No, turning to an "actually guys, please vote Yes, because if you don't I can see a backlash of epic proportions."

It would not surprise me, in the event of a No vote, to see a campaign starting for an Independent England, possibly even an independent England and Wales. I'm not entirely sure that I will not join in with that.
A post which sums up my views.

Have kept out of the independence threads for largely selfish reasons. I have been apalled at how the debate has gone and has surpassed what expected.

Yes I expected the nationalists to behave like this as I have experienced their hatred of who they think is English.

The first time experienced was as a school boy in the 60s and wandered into the local shop in St Fillans to see if I could get my hands on a copy of Motoring News. The shopkeeper was just plain funking rude and uncooperative.

Until I then did a transaction at the Post Office counter and he sussed out my Scottish name. There was a Motoring News there waiting for me a few days later.

Personally my hope for a no vote is disappearing fast, probably disappeared. If it is a no vote don't want it to be close but crushing defeat for the liar Salmond.
Totally agree. Having spent 5 years growing up and going to school in the Highlands just North of Drumnadrochit in the late '70's, I have first hand experience of the depth of loathing there is for the English. However, I thought this deep-rooted anti-Englishness had mellowed somewhat over the intervening years. Clearly, I was wrong.

I was all for Union as I feel the United Kingdom is stronger in an increasingly competitive world through unity, but the more I see the repressed hatred of the English coming out into the open, the more I think to myself "fk 'em. If they hate us so much and want a divorce, let them have it and good luck to them". I only hope that in the of separation, the rUK government doesn't roll over. Even if there is a "No" vote, the damage done cannot be undone, so I would have to think seriously if someone offered me the opportunity to vote for an independent England (and Wales).

As far as I'm concerned, once you tell your partner it's over, it's over.
I an earlier post I mentioned the hostility in found being English in Dunkeld/Birnam where I lived for nearly ten years - I provided both direct and indirect employment in the shooting/fishing tourism business

certainly many were appreciative, such as some hotels/shops but the 'locals' were largely negative to outright hostile

in some respects I do feel inclined to say sod off Scotland - then I think about the hardships that will be suffered by ordinary decent people, so in truth I hope for a no vote

but the damage done within communities will take at least a generation to heal - the last great social split I witnessed was the miners strike as at the time I lived in a mining community (in fact I now live in a former mining village)

the different opinions split families and the scars are still here today - some family members still do not talk to each other!

Langweilig

4,302 posts

210 months

Wednesday 17th September 2014
quotequote all
From the Belfast Telegraph

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/scotland-in...

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/scotland-in...

Edited by Langweilig on Wednesday 17th September 12:23

NomduJour

18,988 posts

258 months

Wednesday 17th September 2014
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So Spain will change their mind? Come on.

Rovinghawk

13,300 posts

157 months

Wednesday 17th September 2014
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ash73 said:
The procedure is bound to take time, and that's in Scotland's interests as much as the EU..
Why would the European Union want to help break up the UK?

KTF

9,788 posts

149 months

Wednesday 17th September 2014
quotequote all
If it is a Yes then I assume they have 18 months to get everything sorted out?

What happens if there are still too many lose ends (and how is that determined) at the 18 month point? Do negotiations continue or does everything get 'reset' back as I doubt that will happen.

marshalla

15,902 posts

200 months

Wednesday 17th September 2014
quotequote all
ash73 said:
Stop believing what the tory papers tell you and think for yourself, nobody will veto anything it's a negotiation.
EU said:
Membership negotiations cannot start until all EU governments agree, in the form of a unanimous decision by the EU Council, on a framework or mandate for negotiations with the candidate country.
from : http://ec.europa.eu/enlargement/policy/steps-towar...

Send yirsel' homeward, tae think again.


Edited by marshalla on Wednesday 17th September 12:27

WinstonWolf

72,857 posts

238 months

Wednesday 17th September 2014
quotequote all
ash73 said:
Stop believing what the tory papers tell you and think for yourself, nobody will veto anything it's a negotiation.
Wrong. Astoundingly "believing in fairies" wrong.

Big Rod

6,198 posts

215 months

Wednesday 17th September 2014
quotequote all
Jeremy Vine going for it with Sturgeon on R2 now.

Countdown to nationalists uproar...

Edition87

582 posts

138 months

Wednesday 17th September 2014
quotequote all
Ive not really been following this, but one thing that was brought up in conversation last night got me wondering. Im seeing more and more people post comments on FaceBook(I know..) on the 'YES' pages claiming that when the split happens, they will be free of debt etc as its the UK's debt, not Scotlands. Is this right, or would they have to take a percentage of it?

B17NNS

18,506 posts

246 months

Wednesday 17th September 2014
quotequote all
Gordon Brown just gave a rather rousing speech.

MonkeyHanger

9,198 posts

241 months

Wednesday 17th September 2014
quotequote all
An interesting quote from an SNP moron on Sky News a minute ago with regards to defence...

"We've seen a doubling of the price of the new aircraft carriers, which we don't need"

Remind me where they're being screwed together?....

NomduJour

18,988 posts

258 months

Wednesday 17th September 2014
quotequote all
Edition87 said:
Is this right, or would they have to take a percentage of it?
What do you think would happen? It's the UK's oil too.

Rovinghawk

13,300 posts

157 months

Wednesday 17th September 2014
quotequote all
Edition87 said:
its the UK's debt, not Scotlands.
The assets will be 100% theirs, I presume?

marshalla

15,902 posts

200 months

Wednesday 17th September 2014
quotequote all
Edition87 said:
Ive not really been following this, but one thing that was brought up in conversation last night got me wondering. Im seeing more and more people post comments on FaceBook(I know..) on the 'YES' pages claiming that when the split happens, they will be free of debt etc as its the UK's debt, not Scotlands. Is this right, or would they have to take a percentage of it?
Ah. Right. That's OK then - that must mean that Scotland isn't part of the UK. Fair enough.

Lads - call off the referendum. It's not needed.

General Price

5,238 posts

182 months

Wednesday 17th September 2014
quotequote all
Edition87 said:
Ive not really been following this, but one thing that was brought up in conversation last night got me wondering. Im seeing more and more people post comments on FaceBook(I know..) on the 'YES' pages claiming that when the split happens, they will be free of debt etc as its the UK's debt, not Scotlands. Is this right, or would they have to take a percentage of it?
I think you will find 99% of the 'yessers' on Facebook consist of less than 1% of Scotland's total intelligence.

yes

Troubleatmill

10,210 posts

158 months

Wednesday 17th September 2014
quotequote all
KTF said:
If it is a Yes then I assume they have 18 months to get everything sorted out?

What happens if there are still too many lose ends (and how is that determined) at the 18 month point? Do negotiations continue or does everything get 'reset' back as I doubt that will happen.
The first rule in a negotiation is to find out the other parties deadline. e.g. if you are flying in to a country - one of the first questions asked is "so.. when are you flying back?"
Once you know their deadline - you have a great amount of leverage over them.

iScotland has said 18 month deadline. rUK hasn't mentioned theirs wink

It is in the interest of rUK to make slow progress during the negotiations.
The closer SNP gets to that 18 month deadline - the more they will give away.


If it is a YES vote - expect iScotland to get much less than Salmond and co are promising now.

mcdjl

5,438 posts

194 months

Wednesday 17th September 2014
quotequote all
marshalla said:
ash73 said:
Stop believing what the tory papers tell you and think for yourself, nobody will veto anything it's a negotiation.
EU said:
Membership negotiations cannot start until all EU governments agree, in the form of a unanimous decision by the EU Council, on a framework or mandate for negotiations with the candidate country.
from : http://ec.europa.eu/enlargement/policy/steps-towar...

Send yirsel' homeward, tae think again.


Edited by marshalla on Wednesday 17th September 12:27
So they don't need to veto, they just don't need to agree. Same effect, much friendlier.

MonkeyHanger said:
An interesting quote from an SNP moron on Sky News a minute ago with regards to defence...

"We've seen a doubling of the price of the new aircraft carriers, which we don't need"

Remind me where they're being screwed together?....
And where the UK will be more than happy to have all its future ships built....

NomduJour

18,988 posts

258 months

Wednesday 17th September 2014
quotequote all
Troubleatmill said:
If it is a YES vote - expect iScotland to get much less than Salmond and co are promising now
If it is a Yes vote - expect to see Salmond, kilt up, over a whisky barrel whilst the UK queues to take turns.
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