Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 6
Discussion
KTF said:
Troubleatmill said:
It might come with some nuclear subs and a nice deep bunker.
Faslane, I imagine, will just be fenced off and declared part of rUK as per the base on Cyprus. Cheaper than attempting to move everything.I'd rather stump up the cost and move it.
I don't post in here often because I can't be bothered arguing the toss with blinkered yessers, but here's my twopenneth.
I moved up to Scotland from the South-East 7 years ago when I was 14. With the exceptions of a few f
kwits, everyone was welcoming. Since then I've made good friends here and become who I am today. I am proud to call Scotland home and of how it has influenced me as a person. However, in the past few months Yes Scotland have campaigned on the back of an extremely ugly and venomous anti-English sentiment.
It is properly terrifying seeing your flag emblazoned with the word 'SCUM'; being called a murderer or an opressor by old friends or seeing others who support the Union singled out for abuse. We've become a scapegoat for all of Scotland's percieved problems and the nastiness seems to have taken hold at the grassroots level: people are lapping it up.
Higher up in the campaign, the nastiness seems only slightly better disguised. Take the march on the BBC. One UK journalist asks a question of Alex Salmond that he takes exception to and the next day the Yestapo are bearing down on BBC Scotland with very good quality banners declaring him as an enemy of the state. That was fking sinister. For a first world European country to organise such an aggresive show of force against a member of the press was unthinkable even a year ago, and yet here we are.
In their propaganda they present a real strawman view of England as a nation of fat cats making a fortune off the stolen wealth of Scotland. They know its not true, but it has worked well in whipping up a jealous hysteria among their supporters who feel entirely justified in their view that the whole of England should be made to suffer for their non-existent crimes.
Looking forwards to a post-Yes Scotland, if what we are seeing now is even remotely representitive of an independent Scotland then it is very clear that I am not welcome in it. With yessers saying that no voters should be strung up, or brought to account for their treachery then it is very clear that as an English born No voter, I would be the lowest of the low as far as they are concerned and I am not prepared to live in a country where I am seen as scum, or a quisling, or a traitor. I leave university at the end of the year with a law degree from an English uni. If it's yes, I'm not coming back and I don't think my family will stay long either. I can see no future for myself in the independent Scotland put forward by the SNP.
If there's a no vote I expect trouble. Those of us who voted no will be the ones who denied the yessers their indygasm and I think that the hatred and vitriol will boil over and their will be riots. In the longer term I don't know if the damage done by Yes Scotland and their fking referendum can be repaired. A good half of the country has spent a year or so screaming at and threatening the other to give them what they want. This referendum has opened up huge divides at every single level, from within households to our relationships with other countries. I hope that the hate that the yes campaign has whipped up will dissipate, but only time will tell. The wounds opened up by this campaign are deep and reparations will take years, if they are possible at all.
The Yes campaign have lied and bullied their way to where they are now. I just pray that the silent majority, who have until now stayed out for fear of abuse, will be out in force to have their say when it really matters and say no thanks to the ugly breed of nationalism that has taken Scotland hostage.
I moved up to Scotland from the South-East 7 years ago when I was 14. With the exceptions of a few f
kwits, everyone was welcoming. Since then I've made good friends here and become who I am today. I am proud to call Scotland home and of how it has influenced me as a person. However, in the past few months Yes Scotland have campaigned on the back of an extremely ugly and venomous anti-English sentiment. It is properly terrifying seeing your flag emblazoned with the word 'SCUM'; being called a murderer or an opressor by old friends or seeing others who support the Union singled out for abuse. We've become a scapegoat for all of Scotland's percieved problems and the nastiness seems to have taken hold at the grassroots level: people are lapping it up.
Higher up in the campaign, the nastiness seems only slightly better disguised. Take the march on the BBC. One UK journalist asks a question of Alex Salmond that he takes exception to and the next day the Yestapo are bearing down on BBC Scotland with very good quality banners declaring him as an enemy of the state. That was f
king sinister. For a first world European country to organise such an aggresive show of force against a member of the press was unthinkable even a year ago, and yet here we are.In their propaganda they present a real strawman view of England as a nation of fat cats making a fortune off the stolen wealth of Scotland. They know its not true, but it has worked well in whipping up a jealous hysteria among their supporters who feel entirely justified in their view that the whole of England should be made to suffer for their non-existent crimes.
Looking forwards to a post-Yes Scotland, if what we are seeing now is even remotely representitive of an independent Scotland then it is very clear that I am not welcome in it. With yessers saying that no voters should be strung up, or brought to account for their treachery then it is very clear that as an English born No voter, I would be the lowest of the low as far as they are concerned and I am not prepared to live in a country where I am seen as scum, or a quisling, or a traitor. I leave university at the end of the year with a law degree from an English uni. If it's yes, I'm not coming back and I don't think my family will stay long either. I can see no future for myself in the independent Scotland put forward by the SNP.
If there's a no vote I expect trouble. Those of us who voted no will be the ones who denied the yessers their indygasm and I think that the hatred and vitriol will boil over and their will be riots. In the longer term I don't know if the damage done by Yes Scotland and their f
king referendum can be repaired. A good half of the country has spent a year or so screaming at and threatening the other to give them what they want. This referendum has opened up huge divides at every single level, from within households to our relationships with other countries. I hope that the hate that the yes campaign has whipped up will dissipate, but only time will tell. The wounds opened up by this campaign are deep and reparations will take years, if they are possible at all.The Yes campaign have lied and bullied their way to where they are now. I just pray that the silent majority, who have until now stayed out for fear of abuse, will be out in force to have their say when it really matters and say no thanks to the ugly breed of nationalism that has taken Scotland hostage.
Asterix said:
KTF said:
mcdjl said:
And where the UK will be more than happy to have all its future ships built....
Plenty of dockyards in Portsmouth and Plymouth.k it, we'll fire up Chatham again if needs be.Chatham would be handy if they build the new Thames estuary airport... and no more/less of a fantasy than some of the SNPs plans.
chrisispringles said:
I don't post in here often because I can't be bothered arguing the toss with blinkered yessers, but here's my twopenneth.
I moved up to Scotland from the South-East 7 years ago when I was 14. With the exceptions of a few fkwits, everyone was welcoming. Since then I've made good friends here and become who I am today. I am proud to call Scotland home and of how it has influenced me as a person. However, in the past few months Yes Scotland have campaigned on the back of an extremely ugly and venomous anti-English sentiment.
It is properly terrifying seeing your flag emblazoned with the word 'SCUM'; being called a murderer or an opressor by old friends or seeing others who support the Union singled out for abuse. We've become a scapegoat for all of Scotland's percieved problems and the nastiness seems to have taken hold at the grassroots level: people are lapping it up.
Higher up in the campaign, the nastiness seems only slightly better disguised. Take the march on the BBC. One UK journalist asks a question of Alex Salmond that he takes exception to and the next day the Yestapo are bearing down on BBC Scotland with very good quality banners declaring him as an enemy of the state. That was fking sinister. For a first world European country to organise such an aggresive show of force against a member of the press was unthinkable even a year ago, and yet here we are.
In their propaganda they present a real strawman view of England as a nation of fat cats making a fortune off the stolen wealth of Scotland. They know its not true, but it has worked well in whipping up a jealous hysteria among their supporters who feel entirely justified in their view that the whole of England should be made to suffer for their non-existent crimes.
Looking forwards to a post-Yes Scotland, if what we are seeing now is even remotely representitive of an independent Scotland then it is very clear that I am not welcome in it. With yessers saying that no voters should be strung up, or brought to account for their treachery then it is very clear that as an English born No voter, I would be the lowest of the low as far as they are concerned and I am not prepared to live in a country where I am seen as scum, or a quisling, or a traitor. I leave university at the end of the year with a law degree from an English uni. If it's yes, I'm not coming back and I don't think my family will stay long either. I can see no future for myself in the independent Scotland put forward by the SNP.
If there's a no vote I expect trouble. Those of us who voted no will be the ones who denied the yessers their indygasm and I think that the hatred and vitriol will boil over and their will be riots. In the longer term I don't know if the damage done by Yes Scotland and their fking referendum can be repaired. A good half of the country has spent a year or so screaming at and threatening the other to give them what they want. This referendum has opened up huge divides at every single level, from within households to our relationships with other countries. I hope that the hate that the yes campaign has whipped up will dissipate, but only time will tell. The wounds opened up by this campaign are deep and reparations will take years, if they are possible at all.
The Yes campaign have lied and bullied their way to where they are now. I just pray that the silent majority, who have until now stayed out for fear of abuse, will be out in force to have their say when it really matters and say no thanks to the ugly breed of nationalism that has taken Scotland hostage.
Scaremungering!I moved up to Scotland from the South-East 7 years ago when I was 14. With the exceptions of a few f
kwits, everyone was welcoming. Since then I've made good friends here and become who I am today. I am proud to call Scotland home and of how it has influenced me as a person. However, in the past few months Yes Scotland have campaigned on the back of an extremely ugly and venomous anti-English sentiment. It is properly terrifying seeing your flag emblazoned with the word 'SCUM'; being called a murderer or an opressor by old friends or seeing others who support the Union singled out for abuse. We've become a scapegoat for all of Scotland's percieved problems and the nastiness seems to have taken hold at the grassroots level: people are lapping it up.
Higher up in the campaign, the nastiness seems only slightly better disguised. Take the march on the BBC. One UK journalist asks a question of Alex Salmond that he takes exception to and the next day the Yestapo are bearing down on BBC Scotland with very good quality banners declaring him as an enemy of the state. That was f
king sinister. For a first world European country to organise such an aggresive show of force against a member of the press was unthinkable even a year ago, and yet here we are.In their propaganda they present a real strawman view of England as a nation of fat cats making a fortune off the stolen wealth of Scotland. They know its not true, but it has worked well in whipping up a jealous hysteria among their supporters who feel entirely justified in their view that the whole of England should be made to suffer for their non-existent crimes.
Looking forwards to a post-Yes Scotland, if what we are seeing now is even remotely representitive of an independent Scotland then it is very clear that I am not welcome in it. With yessers saying that no voters should be strung up, or brought to account for their treachery then it is very clear that as an English born No voter, I would be the lowest of the low as far as they are concerned and I am not prepared to live in a country where I am seen as scum, or a quisling, or a traitor. I leave university at the end of the year with a law degree from an English uni. If it's yes, I'm not coming back and I don't think my family will stay long either. I can see no future for myself in the independent Scotland put forward by the SNP.
If there's a no vote I expect trouble. Those of us who voted no will be the ones who denied the yessers their indygasm and I think that the hatred and vitriol will boil over and their will be riots. In the longer term I don't know if the damage done by Yes Scotland and their f
king referendum can be repaired. A good half of the country has spent a year or so screaming at and threatening the other to give them what they want. This referendum has opened up huge divides at every single level, from within households to our relationships with other countries. I hope that the hate that the yes campaign has whipped up will dissipate, but only time will tell. The wounds opened up by this campaign are deep and reparations will take years, if they are possible at all.The Yes campaign have lied and bullied their way to where they are now. I just pray that the silent majority, who have until now stayed out for fear of abuse, will be out in force to have their say when it really matters and say no thanks to the ugly breed of nationalism that has taken Scotland hostage.
Flufft
t has never seen any of it so you are lying.
chrisispringles said:
Looking forwards to a post-Yes Scotland, if what we are seeing now is even remotely representitive of an independent Scotland then it is very clear that I am not welcome in it. With yessers saying that no voters should be strung up, or brought to account for their treachery then it is very clear that as an English born No voter, I would be the lowest of the low as far as they are concerned and I am not prepared to live in a country where I am seen as scum, or a quisling, or a traitor. I leave university at the end of the year with a law degree from an English uni. If it's yes, I'm not coming back and I don't think my family will stay long either. I can see no future for myself in the independent Scotland put forward by the SNP.
Very sad reading. IainT said:
There's no way I want to see any further favours in Scotland's direction in the event of No and I want my politicians to bargain extremely hard in the event of Yes.
Absolutely agree. I will certainly write saying as much to my MP - for all the good it may do, anyway. I hope others do the same. KTF said:
Faslane, I imagine, will just be fenced off and declared part of rUK as per the base on Cyprus. Cheaper than attempting to move everything.
some sources suggest that the SNP would be prepared to let Faslane remain in a 'trade off' to currency union?other sources suggest that if Faslane had to move then the USA would help with associated costs/logistics?
Bluebarge said:
Erm, Spain was not at all integrated with Europe under Franco - that happened after his death.
Spain was not part of the Union at that time in anyway but the adoption of the Free Market Economy and strong trading links with the rest of Europe and the World set it apart from the post 1989/90 Yugoslavia.
OpulentBob said:
chrisispringles said:
Looking forwards to a post-Yes Scotland, if what we are seeing now is even remotely representitive of an independent Scotland then it is very clear that I am not welcome in it. With yessers saying that no voters should be strung up, or brought to account for their treachery then it is very clear that as an English born No voter, I would be the lowest of the low as far as they are concerned and I am not prepared to live in a country where I am seen as scum, or a quisling, or a traitor. I leave university at the end of the year with a law degree from an English uni. If it's yes, I'm not coming back and I don't think my family will stay long either. I can see no future for myself in the independent Scotland put forward by the SNP.
Very sad reading. some sections of Scotland hate the English in any way shape or form
only now its truly coming to light
Reading things like that, and hearing how for example Wiggly is bricking it about his home, job etc, and hearing my mum talk about how she doesn't want to speak to her own brother because he's become a rabid, screaming, Motherwell Yessir makes me a bit emotional and quite fking angry with the SNP.
king angry with the SNP. 
OpulentBob said:
Reading things like that, and hearing how for example Wiggly is bricking it about his home, job etc, and hearing my mum talk about how she doesn't want to speak to her own brother because he's become a rabid, screaming, Motherwell Yessir makes me a bit emotional and quite fking angry with the SNP.
My Wife and I had a bit of an emotional falling out the other night over when/how/why we'd move away.king angry with the SNP. Bottom line is that neither of us wants to leave as we love it here but 'needs must' as I don't see why I should tollerate something that I/we didn't ask for. It would be a travesty if we had to but we're resigned to the fact that it'll be more than likely in the event of a vote for independence. Also, I'll be looking into registering my company in the UK rather than have it registered in Scotland as it is now.
There're some nice and affordable properties in rural North Yorkshire and County Durham so at least we're agreed on where we'll look as it's maybe a little churlish to look somewhere we've never been like Canada or Australia.
Troubleatmill said:
The problem I have with that is that currency union will likely be the trade off.
I'd rather stump up the cost and move it.
To borrow Mr Salmond's comment - if we just fence it off and declare it UK Territory like Cyprus what is Scotland going to do about it? Invade?I'd rather stump up the cost and move it.
Einion Yrth said:
Big Rod said:
There're some nice and affordable properties in rural North Yorkshire and County Durham so at least we're agreed on where we'll look
If you're forced out by the Yestapo you could do a lot worse than those areas.The experience was painful but at least my Wife's eyes are opened to the potential to move, and it was her that started looking.
IainT said:
I know it's a nasty minority who are using this as an anti-English platform
There's a picture on the BBC website of Miliband in the middle of a crowd in Scotland looking like he's being jostled. It sort of confirms my suspicions [prejudice], in that in the background someone is waving a copy of Socialist Worker with a big pro-Yes front page. The Yes campaign attracts not just the foaming at the mouth nationalists, but every single minority interest group that is unhappy with the so-called Establishment. It's like a lightning rod for every minority interest group that likes disrupting the status quo.
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