Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 6
Discussion
OpulentBob said:
McWigglebum4th said:
To all the YES voters
Thanks guys
I no longer feel welcome in the country i was born in and deeply love
Words cannot express my hatred of you
your sincerely an english
who was born in scotland
Genuinely hope it goes in your favour. I think it's fair to say your concern has been obvious and quite compelling over the months. Thanks guys
I no longer feel welcome in the country i was born in and deeply love
Words cannot express my hatred of you
your sincerely an english
who was born in scotlandSome of my extended family are considering moving to England if the yes vote wins.
My manager is going to have an interesting problem (as will several other colleagues). Some of the systems that we support & develop require very specific clearance, amongst the rules is that you have to be on the UK mainland - england, scotland or wales. If Scotland gets independence, his clearance will be invalid. Lots of my colleagues won't be allowed to do their job.
Reckon it will be a close vote, and regardless of the result it won't end well.
My manager is going to have an interesting problem (as will several other colleagues). Some of the systems that we support & develop require very specific clearance, amongst the rules is that you have to be on the UK mainland - england, scotland or wales. If Scotland gets independence, his clearance will be invalid. Lots of my colleagues won't be allowed to do their job.
Reckon it will be a close vote, and regardless of the result it won't end well.
I hope NO wins
but one interesting thing this process has shown is that the public can passionate about political issues. In particular, people get passionate when the feel that their vote can actually make a difference to something that matters.
We've seen in recent years, fewer people voting in elections and fewer people generally being 'engaged' with politics. This is because of the way our voting system which means that most votes are pretty meaningless. And it is also because, even when your vote does make a difference, most politicians and parties (local and national) end up being pretty much the same anyway.
If Scotland goes independent, then sadly I think everything will go tits up pretty quickly. But the YES campaign offers change, whereas the NO campaign offers more of the same. I can understand why people north of the border will vote yes, but I hope they don't.
but one interesting thing this process has shown is that the public can passionate about political issues. In particular, people get passionate when the feel that their vote can actually make a difference to something that matters.
We've seen in recent years, fewer people voting in elections and fewer people generally being 'engaged' with politics. This is because of the way our voting system which means that most votes are pretty meaningless. And it is also because, even when your vote does make a difference, most politicians and parties (local and national) end up being pretty much the same anyway.
If Scotland goes independent, then sadly I think everything will go tits up pretty quickly. But the YES campaign offers change, whereas the NO campaign offers more of the same. I can understand why people north of the border will vote yes, but I hope they don't.
Went and voted No on my way to work this morning, I barely slept last night! Will stay up tonight until we have a result tomorrow morning.
My younger brother is a student who lives in central Glasgow, we have told him to stay indoors if a No vote is announced! There will be a LOT of very drunken and enraged Yes voters looking for trouble IMO.
My younger brother is a student who lives in central Glasgow, we have told him to stay indoors if a No vote is announced! There will be a LOT of very drunken and enraged Yes voters looking for trouble IMO.
HonestIago said:
Went and voted No on my way to work this morning, I barely slept last night! Will stay up tonight until we have a result tomorrow morning.
Me too, about 5 minutes after it opened, and not a flag waving moron in sight. Obviously too early for any of those to be up.Really nervous, even though I know that I'm quite capable of moving somewhere else I really don't want to see people vote our country on it's way to becoming the next Greece or whatever but without the sunshine based on misplaced hope, fabricated figures and no evidence.
rover 623gsi said:
I hope NO wins
but one interesting thing this process has shown is that the public can passionate about political issues. In particular, people get passionate when the feel that their vote can actually make a difference to something that matters.
We've seen in recent years, fewer people voting in elections and fewer people generally being 'engaged' with politics. This is because of the way our voting system which means that most votes are pretty meaningless. And it is also because, even when your vote does make a difference, most politicians and parties (local and national) end up being pretty much the same anyway.
If Scotland goes independent, then sadly I think everything will go tits up pretty quickly. But the YES campaign offers change, whereas the NO campaign offers more of the same. I can understand why people north of the border will vote yes, but I hope they don't.
Absolutley spot on. This should show people that voting is necessary, if the Scottish electorate had turned out in sufficient numbers then SNP wouldn't have been elected, which in turn wouldn't have resulted in this expensive, devisive, caustic waste of time.but one interesting thing this process has shown is that the public can passionate about political issues. In particular, people get passionate when the feel that their vote can actually make a difference to something that matters.
We've seen in recent years, fewer people voting in elections and fewer people generally being 'engaged' with politics. This is because of the way our voting system which means that most votes are pretty meaningless. And it is also because, even when your vote does make a difference, most politicians and parties (local and national) end up being pretty much the same anyway.
If Scotland goes independent, then sadly I think everything will go tits up pretty quickly. But the YES campaign offers change, whereas the NO campaign offers more of the same. I can understand why people north of the border will vote yes, but I hope they don't.
Welshbeef said:
So given Burger never got the answers he wanted to hear from both sides and was a fence sitter - what has he voted ? Surely the default is no especially if the Yes have not given you the answers you want to hear.
Or maybe he will not come back?
Hi BeefyOr maybe he will not come back?
That’s a fair question given that I’ve been undecided since volume 1.
I realise that some of you don’t believe I was undecided. Well, that was the truth. I’ve wavered between Yes and No several times as the debate progressed. This is an incredibly important vote and I’ve always seen it as a vote for my kids’ future, knowing that independence means unprecedented uncertainty, unknown changes and lots of different opportunities.
And a number of weeks ago I made my decision. I decided that I would absolutely love Scotland to be independent. We could certainly be a successful small country. My head and my heart have been at loggerheads over this. The Yes campaign has been very vocal and plenty respectable people have made good arguments on how we can build something better and leave that for future generations to build and improve on. As a father and as businessman that’s a compelling thought. The BT/No campaign has been mediocre at best.
But, I decided to vote No. And here’s why.
I could be and was persuaded that creating a new Scottish nation is absolutely the right thing to do. If it were to be a new nation. Built from a blank sheet of paper. Let’s learn from the world ‘as is’ and design and create a new nation ‘to be’. Let’s be on minded and pragmatic on our thoughts and designs.
But that wasn’t on the table. What was on the table was a version of the existing UK. Sharing currency and sharing different civil services and sharing the monarch isn‘t independence. Why replicate an existing country and society?
I realise a lot of that is wishful thinking and I realise that right now is quite possibly the wrong time to be doing this. I read an article which argues that was Yes were proposing was ‘Much The Same Apart’ which, for me, was bang on.
So - with a heavy heart - I’ll be voting No. Because I think it’s absolutely the right thing to do.
And as for this forum, I’ve enjoyed the crack and the banter over the years. There are some good debaters and there are some clowns. I was often offering alternative views and often that was to help my decision making and my learning processes throughout this debate. I followed a few independence threads on other websites too but this one was the more entertaining! I know I frustrated some of you by often being offline but that’s just my life and job situation. Oh, and the issue where I had evidence on the pension work – I did. Still do have it actually. There was collaborative work done across the financial services industry along with different civil servants on private, occupational and state pension issues which may arise but I can’t say any more than it did happen. That’s sometimes the nature of my work.
Looking forward? I honestly do not see the divided country that’s been suggested here. Over the next few weeks I expect the people of Scotland to put that behind us and work together, and over the next few and months and years we’ll hopefully create a better country for current and for future generations.,
I could be wrong. I might be making a mistake by voting No. But that’s my view. We’re living in interesting times, so let’s see what happens.
rover 623gsi said:
I hope NO wins
but one interesting thing this process has shown is that the public can passionate about political issues. In particular, people get passionate when the feel that their vote can actually make a difference to something that matters.
We've seen in recent years, fewer people voting in elections and fewer people generally being 'engaged' with politics. This is because of the way our voting system which means that most votes are pretty meaningless. And it is also because, even when your vote does make a difference, most politicians and parties (local and national) end up being pretty much the same anyway.
If Scotland goes independent, then sadly I think everything will go tits up pretty quickly. But the YES campaign offers change, whereas the NO campaign offers more of the same. I can understand why people north of the border will vote yes, but I hope they don't.
The only real change would be if they voted to be independent of politicians. but one interesting thing this process has shown is that the public can passionate about political issues. In particular, people get passionate when the feel that their vote can actually make a difference to something that matters.
We've seen in recent years, fewer people voting in elections and fewer people generally being 'engaged' with politics. This is because of the way our voting system which means that most votes are pretty meaningless. And it is also because, even when your vote does make a difference, most politicians and parties (local and national) end up being pretty much the same anyway.
If Scotland goes independent, then sadly I think everything will go tits up pretty quickly. But the YES campaign offers change, whereas the NO campaign offers more of the same. I can understand why people north of the border will vote yes, but I hope they don't.
Independence is not always most honestly served by those most active in its advocacy.
Edited by andy_s on Thursday 18th September 08:54
Guam said:
Axionknight said:
Andy Murray comes out saying the No campaign has been negative.
Indeed The facts are what the facts are because the facts are negative it doesn't make the campaign negative, being a pragmatist is alien to a socialist paradigm. You cant have fiscal reality getting in the way of nirvana, it has ever been thus.
The Yes campaign - whilst putting on a positive spin is ultimately negative in nature. Underpinning almost every argument the YeSNP have put out there is the unspoken "*because the UK is s
t/wasteful/oppressive/ innit".The whole Yes campaign is based on the assertion that Scotland isn't as prosperous or successful as it could/should be - because other people are preventing it. What is that if not negative.
Edinburger said:
Hi Beefy
That’s a fair question given that I’ve been undecided since volume 1.
I realise that some of you don’t believe I was undecided. Well, that was the truth. I’ve wavered between Yes and No several times as the debate progressed. This is an incredibly important vote and I’ve always seen it as a vote for my kids’ future, knowing that independence means unprecedented uncertainty, unknown changes and lots of different opportunities.
And a number of weeks ago I made my decision. I decided that I would absolutely love Scotland to be independent. We could certainly be a successful small country. My head and my heart have been at loggerheads over this. The Yes campaign has been very vocal and plenty respectable people have made good arguments on how we can build something better and leave that for future generations to build and improve on. As a father and as businessman that’s a compelling thought. The BT/No campaign has been mediocre at best.
But, I decided to vote No. And here’s why.
I could be and was persuaded that creating a new Scottish nation is absolutely the right thing to do. If it were to be a new nation. Built from a blank sheet of paper. Let’s learn from the world ‘as is’ and design and create a new nation ‘to be’. Let’s be on minded and pragmatic on our thoughts and designs.
But that wasn’t on the table. What was on the table was a version of the existing UK. Sharing currency and sharing different civil services and sharing the monarch isn‘t independence. Why replicate an existing country and society?
I realise a lot of that is wishful thinking and I realise that right now is quite possibly the wrong time to be doing this. I read an article which argues that was Yes were proposing was ‘Much The Same Apart’ which, for me, was bang on.
So - with a heavy heart - I’ll be voting No. Because I think it’s absolutely the right thing to do.
And as for this forum, I’ve enjoyed the crack and the banter over the years. There are some good debaters and there are some clowns. I was often offering alternative views and often that was to help my decision making and my learning processes throughout this debate. I followed a few independence threads on other websites too but this one was the more entertaining! I know I frustrated some of you by often being offline but that’s just my life and job situation. Oh, and the issue where I had evidence on the pension work – I did. Still do have it actually. There was collaborative work done across the financial services industry along with different civil servants on private, occupational and state pension issues which may arise but I can’t say any more than it did happen. That’s sometimes the nature of my work.
Looking forward? I honestly do not see the divided country that’s been suggested here. Over the next few weeks I expect the people of Scotland to put that behind us and work together, and over the next few and months and years we’ll hopefully create a better country for current and for future generations.,
I could be wrong. I might be making a mistake by voting No. But that’s my view. We’re living in interesting times, so let’s see what happens.
No divided country? Are you really that deluded and blinkered that you are blind to the hatred of the English at the least and slights upon Scots that are in the No camp from the Nationalists?That’s a fair question given that I’ve been undecided since volume 1.
I realise that some of you don’t believe I was undecided. Well, that was the truth. I’ve wavered between Yes and No several times as the debate progressed. This is an incredibly important vote and I’ve always seen it as a vote for my kids’ future, knowing that independence means unprecedented uncertainty, unknown changes and lots of different opportunities.
And a number of weeks ago I made my decision. I decided that I would absolutely love Scotland to be independent. We could certainly be a successful small country. My head and my heart have been at loggerheads over this. The Yes campaign has been very vocal and plenty respectable people have made good arguments on how we can build something better and leave that for future generations to build and improve on. As a father and as businessman that’s a compelling thought. The BT/No campaign has been mediocre at best.
But, I decided to vote No. And here’s why.
I could be and was persuaded that creating a new Scottish nation is absolutely the right thing to do. If it were to be a new nation. Built from a blank sheet of paper. Let’s learn from the world ‘as is’ and design and create a new nation ‘to be’. Let’s be on minded and pragmatic on our thoughts and designs.
But that wasn’t on the table. What was on the table was a version of the existing UK. Sharing currency and sharing different civil services and sharing the monarch isn‘t independence. Why replicate an existing country and society?
I realise a lot of that is wishful thinking and I realise that right now is quite possibly the wrong time to be doing this. I read an article which argues that was Yes were proposing was ‘Much The Same Apart’ which, for me, was bang on.
So - with a heavy heart - I’ll be voting No. Because I think it’s absolutely the right thing to do.
And as for this forum, I’ve enjoyed the crack and the banter over the years. There are some good debaters and there are some clowns. I was often offering alternative views and often that was to help my decision making and my learning processes throughout this debate. I followed a few independence threads on other websites too but this one was the more entertaining! I know I frustrated some of you by often being offline but that’s just my life and job situation. Oh, and the issue where I had evidence on the pension work – I did. Still do have it actually. There was collaborative work done across the financial services industry along with different civil servants on private, occupational and state pension issues which may arise but I can’t say any more than it did happen. That’s sometimes the nature of my work.
Looking forward? I honestly do not see the divided country that’s been suggested here. Over the next few weeks I expect the people of Scotland to put that behind us and work together, and over the next few and months and years we’ll hopefully create a better country for current and for future generations.,
I could be wrong. I might be making a mistake by voting No. But that’s my view. We’re living in interesting times, so let’s see what happens.
Or does it not count at all in your eyes? The real risk here is that after a No vote, English Nationalism which has slumbered for a long time is awoken and reacts to what has been said about England over the last 18 months.
DMN said:
I'll add this, the presenter of Coast on the BBC, historian Neil Oliver:
"I will lay my cards on the table from the start: I will be voting No.I have no economic argument to make. Frankly, I am sick and tired of hearing people argue the toss about the pound, pensions and the rest. I am voting No because for me, the offering by the Yes camp lacks nobility and humanity. Even more importantly, it lacks class, far less any kind of panache.
Having spent years working on the television series Coast, I think it’s fair to say I’ve seen as much of this United Kingdom of ours as anyone else living here. It’s a project that has changed my life in several ways. It has certainly caused me to fall in love with the place – the whole place. Circumnavigate these islands as I have, as often as I have, and one thing above all becomes clear: [b] the national boundaries within are invisible and therefore meaningless.
People living in a fishing town in Cornwall have more in common with the inhabitants of a fishing town in Fife than either population has with the folk of a town in the Midlands.[/b] They have a shared experience and a common history of coping with lives shaped by the sea. The coast is another country – the fifth country – and it unites us and binds us like the hem of a garment.
The differences that are discernible as you travel around Britain are regional ones – made of accents and architecture, geology and geography. I am all in favour of people having the power to make decisions about their own patch: but I am utterly opposed to the idea of breaking centuries old bonds in order to make that happen."
I love this statement - it gives me hope that intelligent people can see through the smokescreen of independence and nationalism and vote to retain part of something of true value - a continuing prosperous shared future built on the history and culture of a successful union."I will lay my cards on the table from the start: I will be voting No.I have no economic argument to make. Frankly, I am sick and tired of hearing people argue the toss about the pound, pensions and the rest. I am voting No because for me, the offering by the Yes camp lacks nobility and humanity. Even more importantly, it lacks class, far less any kind of panache.
Having spent years working on the television series Coast, I think it’s fair to say I’ve seen as much of this United Kingdom of ours as anyone else living here. It’s a project that has changed my life in several ways. It has certainly caused me to fall in love with the place – the whole place. Circumnavigate these islands as I have, as often as I have, and one thing above all becomes clear: [b] the national boundaries within are invisible and therefore meaningless.
People living in a fishing town in Cornwall have more in common with the inhabitants of a fishing town in Fife than either population has with the folk of a town in the Midlands.[/b] They have a shared experience and a common history of coping with lives shaped by the sea. The coast is another country – the fifth country – and it unites us and binds us like the hem of a garment.
The differences that are discernible as you travel around Britain are regional ones – made of accents and architecture, geology and geography. I am all in favour of people having the power to make decisions about their own patch: but I am utterly opposed to the idea of breaking centuries old bonds in order to make that happen."
Edinburger said:
Hi Beefy
That’s a fair question given that I’ve been undecided since volume 1.
I realise that some of you don’t believe I was undecided. Well, that was the truth. I’ve wavered between Yes and No several times as the debate progressed. This is an incredibly important vote and I’ve always seen it as a vote for my kids’ future, knowing that independence means unprecedented uncertainty, unknown changes and lots of different opportunities.
And a number of weeks ago I made my decision. I decided that I would absolutely love Scotland to be independent. We could certainly be a successful small country. My head and my heart have been at loggerheads over this. The Yes campaign has been very vocal and plenty respectable people have made good arguments on how we can build something better and leave that for future generations to build and improve on. As a father and as businessman that’s a compelling thought. The BT/No campaign has been mediocre at best.
But, I decided to vote No. And here’s why.
I could be and was persuaded that creating a new Scottish nation is absolutely the right thing to do. If it were to be a new nation. Built from a blank sheet of paper. Let’s learn from the world ‘as is’ and design and create a new nation ‘to be’. Let’s be on minded and pragmatic on our thoughts and designs.
But that wasn’t on the table. What was on the table was a version of the existing UK. Sharing currency and sharing different civil services and sharing the monarch isn‘t independence. Why replicate an existing country and society?
I realise a lot of that is wishful thinking and I realise that right now is quite possibly the wrong time to be doing this. I read an article which argues that was Yes were proposing was ‘Much The Same Apart’ which, for me, was bang on.
So - with a heavy heart - I’ll be voting No. Because I think it’s absolutely the right thing to do.
And as for this forum, I’ve enjoyed the crack and the banter over the years. There are some good debaters and there are some clowns. I was often offering alternative views and often that was to help my decision making and my learning processes throughout this debate. I followed a few independence threads on other websites too but this one was the more entertaining! I know I frustrated some of you by often being offline but that’s just my life and job situation. Oh, and the issue where I had evidence on the pension work – I did. Still do have it actually. There was collaborative work done across the financial services industry along with different civil servants on private, occupational and state pension issues which may arise but I can’t say any more than it did happen. That’s sometimes the nature of my work.
Looking forward? I honestly do not see the divided country that’s been suggested here. Over the next few weeks I expect the people of Scotland to put that behind us and work together, and over the next few and months and years we’ll hopefully create a better country for current and for future generations.,
I could be wrong. I might be making a mistake by voting No. But that’s my view. We’re living in interesting times, so let’s see what happens.
good post chap - well done for postingThat’s a fair question given that I’ve been undecided since volume 1.
I realise that some of you don’t believe I was undecided. Well, that was the truth. I’ve wavered between Yes and No several times as the debate progressed. This is an incredibly important vote and I’ve always seen it as a vote for my kids’ future, knowing that independence means unprecedented uncertainty, unknown changes and lots of different opportunities.
And a number of weeks ago I made my decision. I decided that I would absolutely love Scotland to be independent. We could certainly be a successful small country. My head and my heart have been at loggerheads over this. The Yes campaign has been very vocal and plenty respectable people have made good arguments on how we can build something better and leave that for future generations to build and improve on. As a father and as businessman that’s a compelling thought. The BT/No campaign has been mediocre at best.
But, I decided to vote No. And here’s why.
I could be and was persuaded that creating a new Scottish nation is absolutely the right thing to do. If it were to be a new nation. Built from a blank sheet of paper. Let’s learn from the world ‘as is’ and design and create a new nation ‘to be’. Let’s be on minded and pragmatic on our thoughts and designs.
But that wasn’t on the table. What was on the table was a version of the existing UK. Sharing currency and sharing different civil services and sharing the monarch isn‘t independence. Why replicate an existing country and society?
I realise a lot of that is wishful thinking and I realise that right now is quite possibly the wrong time to be doing this. I read an article which argues that was Yes were proposing was ‘Much The Same Apart’ which, for me, was bang on.
So - with a heavy heart - I’ll be voting No. Because I think it’s absolutely the right thing to do.
And as for this forum, I’ve enjoyed the crack and the banter over the years. There are some good debaters and there are some clowns. I was often offering alternative views and often that was to help my decision making and my learning processes throughout this debate. I followed a few independence threads on other websites too but this one was the more entertaining! I know I frustrated some of you by often being offline but that’s just my life and job situation. Oh, and the issue where I had evidence on the pension work – I did. Still do have it actually. There was collaborative work done across the financial services industry along with different civil servants on private, occupational and state pension issues which may arise but I can’t say any more than it did happen. That’s sometimes the nature of my work.
Looking forward? I honestly do not see the divided country that’s been suggested here. Over the next few weeks I expect the people of Scotland to put that behind us and work together, and over the next few and months and years we’ll hopefully create a better country for current and for future generations.,
I could be wrong. I might be making a mistake by voting No. But that’s my view. We’re living in interesting times, so let’s see what happens.
As an Englishman who has no vote, I've pondered how I would vote should we have been offered the opportunity to vote on ejecting Scotland from the Union.
After much rumination, I came to the conclusion that I would abstain, even though it would be in my interests to throw the Scots out, those interests being the damage a lack of Scottish seats would do to the Socialist Labour Party. The one thing aside armed conflict that has done the greatest harm to the UK.
Those intetrersts of course, are personal to me, and could be viewed in a selfish light. So why the abstention? I would abstain because of those decent Scots, who want no part of Salmonds hysterical shreeking spitefull circus. I have happy memories as a kid of holidays in Scotland, and more recently in the far north and Orkney. All I have come across were decent pleasant people. Why should I punish those people who have done me no slight for my own selfish ambitions? So there we are, an open and honest viewpoint from this Englishman.
As for the Salmond Scottish Nasty Party type adherents , they really ought to look in a mirror, they have caused more damage to Scotland than the English have ever done, they seem oblivious to the avalanche of resentment and ill will they have caused , because its that , they have done. This resentment and bad feeling will not go away overnight , it will endure and fester for a long while, whatever the result of todays election.
Basiclly, as an Englishman , all this has come as more than a little disapointing to me, disapointed that such hate filleds as the SNP'ers exist , however, should I have been a Scot, my perspective would have been far more profound , basically that of being blisteringly angry that some of my fellow countrymen would paint my country in such a light, and above all, that their behaviour leads others to tar me with the brush as them.
Whatever the result today, the biggest losers in this ridiculous theatre , will be Scotland, and decent Scots who will suffer the repercussions through no fault of their own.
After much rumination, I came to the conclusion that I would abstain, even though it would be in my interests to throw the Scots out, those interests being the damage a lack of Scottish seats would do to the Socialist Labour Party. The one thing aside armed conflict that has done the greatest harm to the UK.
Those intetrersts of course, are personal to me, and could be viewed in a selfish light. So why the abstention? I would abstain because of those decent Scots, who want no part of Salmonds hysterical shreeking spitefull circus. I have happy memories as a kid of holidays in Scotland, and more recently in the far north and Orkney. All I have come across were decent pleasant people. Why should I punish those people who have done me no slight for my own selfish ambitions? So there we are, an open and honest viewpoint from this Englishman.
As for the Salmond Scottish Nasty Party type adherents , they really ought to look in a mirror, they have caused more damage to Scotland than the English have ever done, they seem oblivious to the avalanche of resentment and ill will they have caused , because its that , they have done. This resentment and bad feeling will not go away overnight , it will endure and fester for a long while, whatever the result of todays election.
Basiclly, as an Englishman , all this has come as more than a little disapointing to me, disapointed that such hate filled
s as the SNP'ers exist , however, should I have been a Scot, my perspective would have been far more profound , basically that of being blisteringly angry that some of my fellow countrymen would paint my country in such a light, and above all, that their behaviour leads others to tar me with the brush as them. Whatever the result today, the biggest losers in this ridiculous theatre , will be Scotland, and decent Scots who will suffer the repercussions through no fault of their own.
Edinburger said:
Hi Beefy
That’s a fair question given that I’ve been undecided since volume 1.
I realise that some of you don’t believe I was undecided. Well, that was the truth. I’ve wavered between Yes and No several times as the debate progressed. This is an incredibly important vote and I’ve always seen it as a vote for my kids’ future, knowing that independence means unprecedented uncertainty, unknown changes and lots of different opportunities.
And a number of weeks ago I made my decision. I decided that I would absolutely love Scotland to be independent. We could certainly be a successful small country. My head and my heart have been at loggerheads over this. The Yes campaign has been very vocal and plenty respectable people have made good arguments on how we can build something better and leave that for future generations to build and improve on. As a father and as businessman that’s a compelling thought. The BT/No campaign has been mediocre at best.
But, I decided to vote No. And here’s why.
I could be and was persuaded that creating a new Scottish nation is absolutely the right thing to do. If it were to be a new nation. Built from a blank sheet of paper. Let’s learn from the world ‘as is’ and design and create a new nation ‘to be’. Let’s be on minded and pragmatic on our thoughts and designs.
But that wasn’t on the table. What was on the table was a version of the existing UK. Sharing currency and sharing different civil services and sharing the monarch isn‘t independence. Why replicate an existing country and society?
I realise a lot of that is wishful thinking and I realise that right now is quite possibly the wrong time to be doing this. I read an article which argues that was Yes were proposing was ‘Much The Same Apart’ which, for me, was bang on.
So - with a heavy heart - I’ll be voting No. Because I think it’s absolutely the right thing to do.
And as for this forum, I’ve enjoyed the crack and the banter over the years. There are some good debaters and there are some clowns. I was often offering alternative views and often that was to help my decision making and my learning processes throughout this debate. I followed a few independence threads on other websites too but this one was the more entertaining! I know I frustrated some of you by often being offline but that’s just my life and job situation. Oh, and the issue where I had evidence on the pension work – I did. Still do have it actually. There was collaborative work done across the financial services industry along with different civil servants on private, occupational and state pension issues which may arise but I can’t say any more than it did happen. That’s sometimes the nature of my work.
Looking forward? I honestly do not see the divided country that’s been suggested here. Over the next few weeks I expect the people of Scotland to put that behind us and work together, and over the next few and months and years we’ll hopefully create a better country for current and for future generations.,
I could be wrong. I might be making a mistake by voting No. But that’s my view. We’re living in interesting times, so let’s see what happens.
Hat's off: good post. That’s a fair question given that I’ve been undecided since volume 1.
I realise that some of you don’t believe I was undecided. Well, that was the truth. I’ve wavered between Yes and No several times as the debate progressed. This is an incredibly important vote and I’ve always seen it as a vote for my kids’ future, knowing that independence means unprecedented uncertainty, unknown changes and lots of different opportunities.
And a number of weeks ago I made my decision. I decided that I would absolutely love Scotland to be independent. We could certainly be a successful small country. My head and my heart have been at loggerheads over this. The Yes campaign has been very vocal and plenty respectable people have made good arguments on how we can build something better and leave that for future generations to build and improve on. As a father and as businessman that’s a compelling thought. The BT/No campaign has been mediocre at best.
But, I decided to vote No. And here’s why.
I could be and was persuaded that creating a new Scottish nation is absolutely the right thing to do. If it were to be a new nation. Built from a blank sheet of paper. Let’s learn from the world ‘as is’ and design and create a new nation ‘to be’. Let’s be on minded and pragmatic on our thoughts and designs.
But that wasn’t on the table. What was on the table was a version of the existing UK. Sharing currency and sharing different civil services and sharing the monarch isn‘t independence. Why replicate an existing country and society?
I realise a lot of that is wishful thinking and I realise that right now is quite possibly the wrong time to be doing this. I read an article which argues that was Yes were proposing was ‘Much The Same Apart’ which, for me, was bang on.
So - with a heavy heart - I’ll be voting No. Because I think it’s absolutely the right thing to do.
And as for this forum, I’ve enjoyed the crack and the banter over the years. There are some good debaters and there are some clowns. I was often offering alternative views and often that was to help my decision making and my learning processes throughout this debate. I followed a few independence threads on other websites too but this one was the more entertaining! I know I frustrated some of you by often being offline but that’s just my life and job situation. Oh, and the issue where I had evidence on the pension work – I did. Still do have it actually. There was collaborative work done across the financial services industry along with different civil servants on private, occupational and state pension issues which may arise but I can’t say any more than it did happen. That’s sometimes the nature of my work.
Looking forward? I honestly do not see the divided country that’s been suggested here. Over the next few weeks I expect the people of Scotland to put that behind us and work together, and over the next few and months and years we’ll hopefully create a better country for current and for future generations.,
I could be wrong. I might be making a mistake by voting No. But that’s my view. We’re living in interesting times, so let’s see what happens.
Let's hope you're in the majority.
MikeT66 said:
DMN said:
I'll add this, the presenter of Coast on the BBC, historian Neil Oliver:
"I will lay my cards on the table from the start: I will be voting No.I have no economic argument to make. Frankly, I am sick and tired of hearing people argue the toss about the pound, pensions and the rest. I am voting No because for me, the offering by the Yes camp lacks nobility and humanity. Even more importantly, it lacks class, far less any kind of panache.
Having spent years working on the television series Coast, I think it’s fair to say I’ve seen as much of this United Kingdom of ours as anyone else living here. It’s a project that has changed my life in several ways. It has certainly caused me to fall in love with the place – the whole place. Circumnavigate these islands as I have, as often as I have, and one thing above all becomes clear: [b] the national boundaries within are invisible and therefore meaningless.
People living in a fishing town in Cornwall have more in common with the inhabitants of a fishing town in Fife than either population has with the folk of a town in the Midlands.[/b] They have a shared experience and a common history of coping with lives shaped by the sea. The coast is another country – the fifth country – and it unites us and binds us like the hem of a garment.
The differences that are discernible as you travel around Britain are regional ones – made of accents and architecture, geology and geography. I am all in favour of people having the power to make decisions about their own patch: but I am utterly opposed to the idea of breaking centuries old bonds in order to make that happen."
I love this statement - it gives me hope that intelligent people can see through the smokescreen of independence and nationalism and vote to retain part of something of true value - a continuing prosperous shared future built on the history and culture of a successful union."I will lay my cards on the table from the start: I will be voting No.I have no economic argument to make. Frankly, I am sick and tired of hearing people argue the toss about the pound, pensions and the rest. I am voting No because for me, the offering by the Yes camp lacks nobility and humanity. Even more importantly, it lacks class, far less any kind of panache.
Having spent years working on the television series Coast, I think it’s fair to say I’ve seen as much of this United Kingdom of ours as anyone else living here. It’s a project that has changed my life in several ways. It has certainly caused me to fall in love with the place – the whole place. Circumnavigate these islands as I have, as often as I have, and one thing above all becomes clear: [b] the national boundaries within are invisible and therefore meaningless.
People living in a fishing town in Cornwall have more in common with the inhabitants of a fishing town in Fife than either population has with the folk of a town in the Midlands.[/b] They have a shared experience and a common history of coping with lives shaped by the sea. The coast is another country – the fifth country – and it unites us and binds us like the hem of a garment.
The differences that are discernible as you travel around Britain are regional ones – made of accents and architecture, geology and geography. I am all in favour of people having the power to make decisions about their own patch: but I am utterly opposed to the idea of breaking centuries old bonds in order to make that happen."
Very dignified chap. Noticed how a YESser said something like "I really love your programme but I'm disappointed in your ............................and stuff" She was very polite from what I saw but I found her comment rather patronising even arrogant. IT was as if she expected him to be a YESser just because he was a Scottish presenter.
I can't remember if it was on the BBC or Jon Snows dronathon but I was rather disappointed and switched back to Agent Gibbs
rich1231 said:
Edinburger said:
Hi Beefy
That’s a fair question given that I’ve been undecided since volume 1.
.....
I could be wrong. I might be making a mistake by voting No. But that’s my view. We’re living in interesting times, so let’s see what happens.
No divided country? Are you really that deluded and blinkered that you are blind to the hatred of the English at the least and slights upon Scots that are in the No camp from the Nationalists?That’s a fair question given that I’ve been undecided since volume 1.
.....
I could be wrong. I might be making a mistake by voting No. But that’s my view. We’re living in interesting times, so let’s see what happens.
Or does it not count at all in your eyes? The real risk here is that after a No vote, English Nationalism which has slumbered for a long time is awoken and reacts to what has been said about England over the last 18 months.
However, the risk you indicate of a huge English backlash is right. I can say with some certainty that in the event of a NO vote I'll be lobbying furiously to put the screws on everything that Cameron has promised to deliver if they stay in the union. As a country they simply don't deserve it after all this.
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