Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 6
Discussion
dele said:
Work for an investment bank in the City and we have staff coming in at 2am to prepare for the 'worst'
Jesus. Can it really not wait till 8am? Are 6 hours that important?Do people actually enjoy having to work for these slave driving companies? Total madness.
Sorry for being off topic but that really gets my goat.
My work/company are going to be hugely affected if it's a YES tonight. But really, we're just going to come in as normal tomorrow. We don't live in a Hollywood world where breakfast is for wimps and the cut of your suit matters more than what you do.
Apologies again. Real hobby horse of mine. Can't help it.
gpo746 said:
MikeT66 said:
DMN said:
I'll add this, the presenter of Coast on the BBC, historian Neil Oliver:
"I will lay my cards on the table from the start: I will be voting No.I have no economic argument to make. Frankly, I am sick and tired of hearing people argue the toss about the pound, pensions and the rest. I am voting No because for me, the offering by the Yes camp lacks nobility and humanity. Even more importantly, it lacks class, far less any kind of panache.
Having spent years working on the television series Coast, I think it’s fair to say I’ve seen as much of this United Kingdom of ours as anyone else living here. It’s a project that has changed my life in several ways. It has certainly caused me to fall in love with the place – the whole place. Circumnavigate these islands as I have, as often as I have, and one thing above all becomes clear: [b] the national boundaries within are invisible and therefore meaningless.
People living in a fishing town in Cornwall have more in common with the inhabitants of a fishing town in Fife than either population has with the folk of a town in the Midlands.[/b] They have a shared experience and a common history of coping with lives shaped by the sea. The coast is another country – the fifth country – and it unites us and binds us like the hem of a garment.
The differences that are discernible as you travel around Britain are regional ones – made of accents and architecture, geology and geography. I am all in favour of people having the power to make decisions about their own patch: but I am utterly opposed to the idea of breaking centuries old bonds in order to make that happen."
I love this statement - it gives me hope that intelligent people can see through the smokescreen of independence and nationalism and vote to retain part of something of true value - a continuing prosperous shared future built on the history and culture of a successful union."I will lay my cards on the table from the start: I will be voting No.I have no economic argument to make. Frankly, I am sick and tired of hearing people argue the toss about the pound, pensions and the rest. I am voting No because for me, the offering by the Yes camp lacks nobility and humanity. Even more importantly, it lacks class, far less any kind of panache.
Having spent years working on the television series Coast, I think it’s fair to say I’ve seen as much of this United Kingdom of ours as anyone else living here. It’s a project that has changed my life in several ways. It has certainly caused me to fall in love with the place – the whole place. Circumnavigate these islands as I have, as often as I have, and one thing above all becomes clear: [b] the national boundaries within are invisible and therefore meaningless.
People living in a fishing town in Cornwall have more in common with the inhabitants of a fishing town in Fife than either population has with the folk of a town in the Midlands.[/b] They have a shared experience and a common history of coping with lives shaped by the sea. The coast is another country – the fifth country – and it unites us and binds us like the hem of a garment.
The differences that are discernible as you travel around Britain are regional ones – made of accents and architecture, geology and geography. I am all in favour of people having the power to make decisions about their own patch: but I am utterly opposed to the idea of breaking centuries old bonds in order to make that happen."
Very dignified chap. Noticed how a YESser said something like "I really love your programme but I'm disappointed in your ............................and stuff" She was very polite from what I saw but I found her comment rather patronising even arrogant. IT was as if she expected him to be a YESser just because he was a Scottish presenter.
I can't remember if it was on the BBC or Jon Snows dronathon but I was rather disappointed and switched back to Agent Gibbs
SilverSixer said:
Jesus. Can it really not wait till 8am? Are 6 hours that important?
Do people actually enjoy having to work for these slave driving companies? Total madness.
Sorry for being off topic but that really gets my goat.
My work/company are going to be hugely affected if it's a YES tonight. But really, we're just going to come in as normal tomorrow. We don't live in a Hollywood world where breakfast is for wimps and the cut of your suit matters more than what you do.
Apologies again. Real hobby horse of mine. Can't help it.
Markets that will impact them will be open before 6pm etcDo people actually enjoy having to work for these slave driving companies? Total madness.
Sorry for being off topic but that really gets my goat.
My work/company are going to be hugely affected if it's a YES tonight. But really, we're just going to come in as normal tomorrow. We don't live in a Hollywood world where breakfast is for wimps and the cut of your suit matters more than what you do.
Apologies again. Real hobby horse of mine. Can't help it.
Nom de ploom said:
I think nick robinson summed it up nicely - forgive my quote but when he said one of the main cruxes of the yes vote is being governed from 350 miles away by a tory government no-one in scotland voted for (which is a very good political point btw), 96% of the UK voters won't be voting in the referendum on a united kingdom
Brussels is about 650 miles away, with zero powers to control it, but that's seen as OK it seems.SilverSixer said:
dele said:
Work for an investment bank in the City and we have staff coming in at 2am to prepare for the 'worst'
Jesus. Can it really not wait till 8am? Are 6 hours that important?Do people actually enjoy having to work for these slave driving companies? Total madness.
Sorry for being off topic but that really gets my goat.
My work/company are going to be hugely affected if it's a YES tonight. But really, we're just going to come in as normal tomorrow. We don't live in a Hollywood world where breakfast is for wimps and the cut of your suit matters more than what you do.
Apologies again. Real hobby horse of mine. Can't help it.
People do enjoy working for these "slave driving" companies and will be getting paid extra for those hours of work.
I take it that your company won't be able to minimize any losses in those 6 hours, but investment bankers would.
SilverSixer said:
Jesus. Can it really not wait till 8am? Are 6 hours that important?
Do people actually enjoy having to work for these slave driving companies? Total madness.
Yes, because people in the City work all hours just so they can pretend to be Gordon Gekko on the internet. Do people actually enjoy having to work for these slave driving companies? Total madness.
Effort/reward.
Moonhawk said:
Are exit polls being conducted? If so - are the results of them held until the polling stations are closed - or will we get an idea part way through the day?
Election rules expressly forbid publication of anything that could indicate how the vote is going whilst the polls are still open, so we won't hear anything during the day.Exit poll results are usually published as soon as possible after the polls closed - basically 22:01.
However, given the level of intimidation during this campaign I question how valuable an exit poll will be for this referendum. How many people are going to tell a pollster standing next to a 'Yes' campaigner that they voted 'No'?
IainT said:
Having actually given this some real thought and put aside daft notions of history I'm fairly convinced that the better approach would be to adopt the German federal model for the constituent countries that form the UK. I'm fully supportive of the desire to greater representation and self-determination. Historical reasons for our current political structures don't make them worth keeping in my view.
I struggle with this for two reasons. The first is that we already have too many layers of government interfering with our lives; EU, Westminster, County, City, Parish. Why add another layer in the middle? Can't you just give more power to the county or city councils?The second is that I don't understand what's so special about Scotland (or England or Wales). Scotland only existed for a few hundred years. It was itself the union of earlier kingdoms and then a few hundred years later joined with other kingdoms to form a larger union. You are drawing an artificial line in history and deciding that is the one true definition of what a country is.
My sister-in-law has been living in Scotland. She is of 100% Scottish parentage (Dunfermline) but was born in England and lived the first 35 years of her life there. She has a very clear English accent. She is a definite No voter.
My advice to her was to put up a Yes poster in her window and tell anyone that she didn't know VERY well that she'd be voting yes.
The ugly side of the Yes campaign means that, if you stand out (as she does with an English accent), there is nothing to be lost by being thought of as a Yesser. The Nos will be quick to forgive and work for unity if they win - it is about the Union after all. They will not be vocal if they lose. The Yessers on the other hand feel like they have been "taking numbers". The phrase "Day of Reckoning" from a Nationalist movement is NOT a good thing - and win or lose (but particularly lose), the Yessers will be much less likely to forget, especially as her accent sets her very obviously apart.
She told me this morning that she'd followed that advice (fairly recently as the Yes campaign became more strident) and voted No in the polling booth.
My advice to her was to put up a Yes poster in her window and tell anyone that she didn't know VERY well that she'd be voting yes.
The ugly side of the Yes campaign means that, if you stand out (as she does with an English accent), there is nothing to be lost by being thought of as a Yesser. The Nos will be quick to forgive and work for unity if they win - it is about the Union after all. They will not be vocal if they lose. The Yessers on the other hand feel like they have been "taking numbers". The phrase "Day of Reckoning" from a Nationalist movement is NOT a good thing - and win or lose (but particularly lose), the Yessers will be much less likely to forget, especially as her accent sets her very obviously apart.
She told me this morning that she'd followed that advice (fairly recently as the Yes campaign became more strident) and voted No in the polling booth.
I've lurked and read most of the past couple of volumes of the topic, it has been an education!
From a staunchly Union point of view (being an Englishman), I do truly think we are better together, however I am almost afraid that it will be a no vote now.
The closeness of the result, and it will be classed as close even at 60/40 means that the whole referendum question will simmer below the surface and on either side there won't be acceptance of the will of the people, more it was a close run thing, lets try again until we get the "right result" in the case of the Yessers. From my perspective from my NO point of view I've come to the sad conclusion I don't want them to be part of the UK any more, the vitriolic anti English, anti Union stance means that for years and perhaps generations there will be an acrimonious split in the country both at Scotland level and nationally. FFS they still blame Thatcher for this even though she was out of power 20 years ago, forgetting the Labour government in the interim.
I feel genuinely sorry for the likes of Wiggle and since his "coming out" Burger, they have made really compelling heartfelt cases for the cause, plus the millions of normal Scots who are being forced down a road they don't want to travel.
Even in the event of a no, I don't want to have to bribe the Scots to be members of the UK, they already get preferential treatment in terms of Education, prescriptions, public spending, the Barnet formula. I'd hope that there will be enough of a rUK backlash that puts the brakes on the blank cheque that has been waved in the noses of the Scots. Bribing them to stay isn't the answer and in the interests of fairness I'd like to think the "yessers" are OK with losing all the bribes - after all they wanted a fairer society, what can be fairer than that. Not a dig at the Scots, i've had a fair few visits to various parts, found all to be friendly and hospitable, I just think the damage to the relationship is such that I'd prefer we went our separate ways and "remained just good friends"....
From a staunchly Union point of view (being an Englishman), I do truly think we are better together, however I am almost afraid that it will be a no vote now.
The closeness of the result, and it will be classed as close even at 60/40 means that the whole referendum question will simmer below the surface and on either side there won't be acceptance of the will of the people, more it was a close run thing, lets try again until we get the "right result" in the case of the Yessers. From my perspective from my NO point of view I've come to the sad conclusion I don't want them to be part of the UK any more, the vitriolic anti English, anti Union stance means that for years and perhaps generations there will be an acrimonious split in the country both at Scotland level and nationally. FFS they still blame Thatcher for this even though she was out of power 20 years ago, forgetting the Labour government in the interim.
I feel genuinely sorry for the likes of Wiggle and since his "coming out" Burger, they have made really compelling heartfelt cases for the cause, plus the millions of normal Scots who are being forced down a road they don't want to travel.
Even in the event of a no, I don't want to have to bribe the Scots to be members of the UK, they already get preferential treatment in terms of Education, prescriptions, public spending, the Barnet formula. I'd hope that there will be enough of a rUK backlash that puts the brakes on the blank cheque that has been waved in the noses of the Scots. Bribing them to stay isn't the answer and in the interests of fairness I'd like to think the "yessers" are OK with losing all the bribes - after all they wanted a fairer society, what can be fairer than that. Not a dig at the Scots, i've had a fair few visits to various parts, found all to be friendly and hospitable, I just think the damage to the relationship is such that I'd prefer we went our separate ways and "remained just good friends"....
Aplogies for joining in 112 pages in to Vol 6 in case this has been done before but:
Opinion polls have YES/NO pretty much neck and neck
Betfair has a market on it with odds on a YES majority at 5/1, NO majority at 5/1-on.
Both can't be right, but I am surprised they are so far apart?
I've had a small flutter for fun ... time will tell!
Opinion polls have YES/NO pretty much neck and neck
Betfair has a market on it with odds on a YES majority at 5/1, NO majority at 5/1-on.
Both can't be right, but I am surprised they are so far apart?
I've had a small flutter for fun ... time will tell!
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