Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 6
Discussion
king off any time soon. You are of course welcome to do so yourself.
Derek Smith said:
TroubledSoul said:
On the BBC there is an expose of the Braveheart myth but broadcast on Saturday. Just been told this and haven't got a Radio Times to hand.
gpo746 said:
Wombat3 said:
Edinburger said:
Hi Beefy
That’s a fair question given that I’ve been undecided since volume 1.
I realise that some of you don’t believe I was undecided. Well, that was the truth. I’ve wavered between Yes and No several times as the debate progressed. This is an incredibly important vote and I’ve always seen it as a vote for my kids’ future, knowing that independence means unprecedented uncertainty, unknown changes and lots of different opportunities.
And a number of weeks ago I made my decision. I decided that I would absolutely love Scotland to be independent. We could certainly be a successful small country. My head and my heart have been at loggerheads over this. The Yes campaign has been very vocal and plenty respectable people have made good arguments on how we can build something better and leave that for future generations to build and improve on. As a father and as businessman that’s a compelling thought. The BT/No campaign has been mediocre at best.
But, I decided to vote No. And here’s why.
I could be and was persuaded that creating a new Scottish nation is absolutely the right thing to do. If it were to be a new nation. Built from a blank sheet of paper. Let’s learn from the world ‘as is’ and design and create a new nation ‘to be’. Let’s be on minded and pragmatic on our thoughts and designs.
But that wasn’t on the table. What was on the table was a version of the existing UK. Sharing currency and sharing different civil services and sharing the monarch isn‘t independence. Why replicate an existing country and society?
I realise a lot of that is wishful thinking and I realise that right now is quite possibly the wrong time to be doing this. I read an article which argues that was Yes were proposing was ‘Much The Same Apart’ which, for me, was bang on.
So - with a heavy heart - I’ll be voting No. Because I think it’s absolutely the right thing to do.
And as for this forum, I’ve enjoyed the crack and the banter over the years. There are some good debaters and there are some clowns. I was often offering alternative views and often that was to help my decision making and my learning processes throughout this debate. I followed a few independence threads on other websites too but this one was the more entertaining! I know I frustrated some of you by often being offline but that’s just my life and job situation. Oh, and the issue where I had evidence on the pension work – I did. Still do have it actually. There was collaborative work done across the financial services industry along with different civil servants on private, occupational and state pension issues which may arise but I can’t say any more than it did happen. That’s sometimes the nature of my work.
Looking forward? I honestly do not see the divided country that’s been suggested here. Over the next few weeks I expect the people of Scotland to put that behind us and work together, and over the next few and months and years we’ll hopefully create a better country for current and for future generations.,
I could be wrong. I might be making a mistake by voting No. But that’s my view. We’re living in interesting times, so let’s see what happens.
I read this earlier in the day - and some of the subsequent apologies but something has bothered me about it....That’s a fair question given that I’ve been undecided since volume 1.
I realise that some of you don’t believe I was undecided. Well, that was the truth. I’ve wavered between Yes and No several times as the debate progressed. This is an incredibly important vote and I’ve always seen it as a vote for my kids’ future, knowing that independence means unprecedented uncertainty, unknown changes and lots of different opportunities.
And a number of weeks ago I made my decision. I decided that I would absolutely love Scotland to be independent. We could certainly be a successful small country. My head and my heart have been at loggerheads over this. The Yes campaign has been very vocal and plenty respectable people have made good arguments on how we can build something better and leave that for future generations to build and improve on. As a father and as businessman that’s a compelling thought. The BT/No campaign has been mediocre at best.
But, I decided to vote No. And here’s why.
I could be and was persuaded that creating a new Scottish nation is absolutely the right thing to do. If it were to be a new nation. Built from a blank sheet of paper. Let’s learn from the world ‘as is’ and design and create a new nation ‘to be’. Let’s be on minded and pragmatic on our thoughts and designs.
But that wasn’t on the table. What was on the table was a version of the existing UK. Sharing currency and sharing different civil services and sharing the monarch isn‘t independence. Why replicate an existing country and society?
I realise a lot of that is wishful thinking and I realise that right now is quite possibly the wrong time to be doing this. I read an article which argues that was Yes were proposing was ‘Much The Same Apart’ which, for me, was bang on.
So - with a heavy heart - I’ll be voting No. Because I think it’s absolutely the right thing to do.
And as for this forum, I’ve enjoyed the crack and the banter over the years. There are some good debaters and there are some clowns. I was often offering alternative views and often that was to help my decision making and my learning processes throughout this debate. I followed a few independence threads on other websites too but this one was the more entertaining! I know I frustrated some of you by often being offline but that’s just my life and job situation. Oh, and the issue where I had evidence on the pension work – I did. Still do have it actually. There was collaborative work done across the financial services industry along with different civil servants on private, occupational and state pension issues which may arise but I can’t say any more than it did happen. That’s sometimes the nature of my work.
Looking forward? I honestly do not see the divided country that’s been suggested here. Over the next few weeks I expect the people of Scotland to put that behind us and work together, and over the next few and months and years we’ll hopefully create a better country for current and for future generations.,
I could be wrong. I might be making a mistake by voting No. But that’s my view. We’re living in interesting times, so let’s see what happens.
Basically, what you are saying to the rest of us is , "I want out of the UK but unfortunately the offer for me & mine just isn't good enough so I suppose we'll just have to stay"
Nothing about wanting to keep the UK together because its the right thing to do, nothing about any consideration for how a decision to vote yes might impact your fellow citizens, nothing about having any love for the whole country that harbours you & yours...
Just "The offer isn't good enough"
Basically, it would seem that you have voted for something you don't actually want to be part of out of pure self interest, and not because you actually believe in it, want to make it any better, want to contribute to it, care about its welfare or indeed have any respect or regard for it.
I'll keep the rest of my thoughts on all that to myself I think.
To be blunt your post seems extremely arrogant and patronising to me.
Happen it's not meant to be, but the guy can vote for what he wants for whatever the reasons he wants.
People tend to do that at elections anyway.
My response probably about as arrogant & patronising as the underlying message I saw in his post which, perhaps, he also should have kept to himself.
motco said:
I seem to recall it still legal for a Manxman to kill a Scotsman. Probably confined to doing it on the Isle of Man though...
Nope, that's York for you https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/in_york_it_...
Moonhawk said:
Derek Smith said:
On the BBC there is an expose of the Braveheart myth but broadcast on Saturday. Just been told this and haven't got a Radio Times to hand.
Yep - found it:It's called William Wallace and Gromit
toppstuff said:
Zod said:
He's a yank, isn't he?
Hell no, Mel is Australian as an outback kangaroo. Wallace was, it is suggested, was 6’4” (and other variations although generally accepted as tall) Whilst Gibson requires 6” built up heels to still miss being near that height.
Given Gibson’s history of racist language, alcoholic problems and thinking which religion you are is important, I can’t think why they picked him for the role.
worsy said:
Nicola Sturgeon looks like she just took a pregnancy test. Moonhawk said:
LOL - it's like a comedy routine (a bad one).
He complains about "fascist UKIP" - but then goes on to say that independence will be taken by force.
He says he is getting "death threats" off No supporters - because he said he'd rather "die a million times than be British" - and somebody replied "just the once will do".
He says the union flag represents racism and bloodlust - yet incites violence and used phrases like "filthy English scum".
https://twitter.com/toffee192
He does look a bit like Chubby Brown though.......
Page removed. Heh.He complains about "fascist UKIP" - but then goes on to say that independence will be taken by force.
He says he is getting "death threats" off No supporters - because he said he'd rather "die a million times than be British" - and somebody replied "just the once will do".
He says the union flag represents racism and bloodlust - yet incites violence and used phrases like "filthy English scum".
https://twitter.com/toffee192
He does look a bit like Chubby Brown though.......
Edited by Moonhawk on Thursday 18th September 10:35
Ok, a question.
As I understand it, at present, Great Britain is England, Wales and Scotland.
The UK is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland?
So, if it's a yes, I am assuming that GB becomes England and Wales, and the UK is the new GB and NI (with some random foreign country stuck to the top of England), or will it be GB, NI and Scotland?
As I understand it, at present, Great Britain is England, Wales and Scotland.
The UK is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland?
So, if it's a yes, I am assuming that GB becomes England and Wales, and the UK is the new GB and NI (with some random foreign country stuck to the top of England), or will it be GB, NI and Scotland?
speedchick said:
Ok, a question.
As I understand it, at present, Great Britain is England, Wales and Scotland.
The UK is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland?
So, if it's a yes, I am assuming that GB becomes England and Wales, and the UK is the new GB and NI (with some random foreign country stuck to the top of England), or will it be GB, NI and Scotland?
Great Britain is the island. Politically it would be the UK of England & Wales, and N.I. Plus some crown dependencies, perhaps to include the Shetlands and Orkney if they want that.As I understand it, at present, Great Britain is England, Wales and Scotland.
The UK is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland?
So, if it's a yes, I am assuming that GB becomes England and Wales, and the UK is the new GB and NI (with some random foreign country stuck to the top of England), or will it be GB, NI and Scotland?
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