Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 6
Discussion
Efbe said:
It's a worry that a little more clarity from Salmond over currency and borders/EU probably would have changed everything.
It would have swung the decision even more in favour of no. Salmond deliberately fudged these issues because he wanted to distract from the reality of his choices post independence.He sold the Yes supporters a lie. He promised to 'rid Scotland of the Tories forever' (to paraphrase one of the campaign posters), something independence carried absolutely no guarantee of.
It was also insulting to suggest that the interests of Scots were somehow different to those of people in Liverpool, Newcastle, Manchester, Leeds, Birmingham or even Milton Keyenes, but that is exactly how he motivated an ignorant, otherwise dis-interested group of the populace to vote.
Edited by r11co on Friday 19th September 15:25
Challo said:
Nothing about the majority of people realised that YES was not a good option to be taking.
People have been predicting these excuses for weeks. I knew I should have had those "Nationalist excuse in the event of a No vote" bingo cards made up.Nationalists are nothing if not predictable.
Moonhawk said:
Mr_B said:
Question. What percentage of eligible people who could register to vote did so, what percentage of that did turn out and vote and then what percentage of that voted yes ?
According to the BBC97% registered to vote
84.59% actually did vote
44.7% of the 84% who did vote, voted Yes
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-pol...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/events/scotland-decides/...
As a percentage of the entire electorate - the Yes vote only represented around 37.8%.
Edited by Moonhawk on Friday 19th September 15:15
Challo said:
Just caught the TV at work. They had interviewed some 'Yes' voters after the result. All claiming BBC (General Media) Bias, scaremongering by Westminster had ruined it for Scotland and how unfair it all was.
It's a lot mentally easier to blame the loss on others, rather than accept you're view and belief was "wrong". ralphrj said:
Salmond press conf pushed back again to 4pm.
Rumour is he will resign.
Well he ought to; he and his party have been a 1-trick pony and their bluff has been called. However I suspect that all the fervent nationalism (really anti-English xenophobia) that they have stirred up will result in a win for the SNP making Sturgeon First Minister.Rumour is he will resign.
PhilboSE said:
Well he ought to; he and his party have been a 1-trick pony and their bluff has been called. However I suspect that all the fervent nationalism (really anti-English xenophobia) that they have stirred up will result in a win for the SNP making Sturgeon First Minister.
Alex Salmond has said that we should not look on how far they fell short but how far they had travelled.A near-miss no was almost a perfect result for him as it meant he did not have to deliver on his promises while still achieving more powers.
Where it'll go wrong for him though is human nature - his party will implode as others eye his job.
PhilboSE said:
Well he ought to; he and his party have been a 1-trick pony and their bluff has been called. However I suspect that all the fervent nationalism (really anti-English xenophobia) that they have stirred up will result in a win for the SNP making Sturgeon First Minister.
Oh dear god let's hope not. She's too busy trying to get Prestwick Airport to turn a profit. Haven't been on here in a while but will do a quick post to say I'm a little disappointed with the result (I voted YES) but looks like we'll get some genuine change to eagerly anticipating that. Hope the change comes for England, too.
Gordon Brown's name is being thrust around the place like he has suddenly regained credibility from somewhere. Maybe I missed it but we're talking about the guy who led us into the worst recession in living memory, right?
Gordon Brown's name is being thrust around the place like he has suddenly regained credibility from somewhere. Maybe I missed it but we're talking about the guy who led us into the worst recession in living memory, right?
Welshbeef said:
Welshbeef said:
So what did burger vote in the end?
Is Fluffy balls emigrating
Is VincterPrick going to start a new movement
Does Fluffy get a refund?
Does XJS and PVC driver get to chill out.
Do all Pro Yes on this thread now accept the settled will of the Scottish people and stop banging in about splitting away? You will never again be offered the choice
/in you're lifetime.
So who's for a Fully fedral UK ? I am. But I do want the wealthier parts of the union supporting the weaker parts and happy for that to continue.
Hi any chance of an answer to this my friend Burger?Is Fluffy balls emigrating
Is VincterPrick going to start a new movement
Does Fluffy get a refund?
Does XJS and PVC driver get to chill out.
Do all Pro Yes on this thread now accept the settled will of the Scottish people and stop banging in about splitting away? You will never again be offered the choice
/in you're lifetime. So who's for a Fully fedral UK ? I am. But I do want the wealthier parts of the union supporting the weaker parts and happy for that to continue.
Edinburger said:
Welshbeef said:
So given Burger never got the answers he wanted to hear from both sides and was a fence sitter - what has he voted ? Surely the default is no especially if the Yes have not given you the answers you want to hear.
Or maybe he will not come back?
Hi BeefyOr maybe he will not come back?
That’s a fair question given that I’ve been undecided since volume 1.
I realise that some of you don’t believe I was undecided. Well, that was the truth. I’ve wavered between Yes and No several times as the debate progressed. This is an incredibly important vote and I’ve always seen it as a vote for my kids’ future, knowing that independence means unprecedented uncertainty, unknown changes and lots of different opportunities.
And a number of weeks ago I made my decision. I decided that I would absolutely love Scotland to be independent. We could certainly be a successful small country. My head and my heart have been at loggerheads over this. The Yes campaign has been very vocal and plenty respectable people have made good arguments on how we can build something better and leave that for future generations to build and improve on. As a father and as businessman that’s a compelling thought. The BT/No campaign has been mediocre at best.
But, I decided to vote No. And here’s why.
I could be and was persuaded that creating a new Scottish nation is absolutely the right thing to do. If it were to be a new nation. Built from a blank sheet of paper. Let’s learn from the world ‘as is’ and design and create a new nation ‘to be’. Let’s be on minded and pragmatic on our thoughts and designs.
But that wasn’t on the table. What was on the table was a version of the existing UK. Sharing currency and sharing different civil services and sharing the monarch isn‘t independence. Why replicate an existing country and society?
I realise a lot of that is wishful thinking and I realise that right now is quite possibly the wrong time to be doing this. I read an article which argues that was Yes were proposing was ‘Much The Same Apart’ which, for me, was bang on.
So - with a heavy heart - I’ll be voting No. Because I think it’s absolutely the right thing to do.
And as for this forum, I’ve enjoyed the crack and the banter over the years. There are some good debaters and there are some clowns. I was often offering alternative views and often that was to help my decision making and my learning processes throughout this debate. I followed a few independence threads on other websites too but this one was the more entertaining! I know I frustrated some of you by often being offline but that’s just my life and job situation. Oh, and the issue where I had evidence on the pension work – I did. Still do have it actually. There was collaborative work done across the financial services industry along with different civil servants on private, occupational and state pension issues which may arise but I can’t say any more than it did happen. That’s sometimes the nature of my work.
Looking forward? I honestly do not see the divided country that’s been suggested here. Over the next few weeks I expect the people of Scotland to put that behind us and work together, and over the next few and months and years we’ll hopefully create a better country for current and for future generations.,
I could be wrong. I might be making a mistake by voting No. But that’s my view. We’re living in interesting times, so let’s see what happens.
Dog Star said:
The 16 and 17 year old thing was very cynical; I'd wager that about 90% of them voted "Yes".
No official exit polls, but most of the opinion polls that sampled this group showed support for no around 60%.Cynical indeed, but for Salmond it backfired.
Edited by r11co on Friday 19th September 15:37
WCZ said:
Dog Star said:
The 16 and 17 year old thing was very cynical; I'd wager that about 90% of them voted "Yes".
Does anyone know what percentage of the electorate they represented?
not sure but I remember polls indicating the complete opposite!Does anyone know what percentage of the electorate they represented?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-pol...
Looks like the polls had it wrong.
mcbook said:
Gordon Brown's name is being thrust around the place like he has suddenly regained credibility from somewhere. Maybe I missed it but we're talking about the guy who led us into the worst recession in living memory, right?
It would have made no difference who were in power during the sub-prime crisis. Anyone who says so is usually an opportunist i.e. wasn't in power at the time. WeirdNeville said:
Notice how there are two peaks in the Yes data. One around the age of people who grew up under Thatcher - and another around the age of the kids of the people who grew up under thatcher.
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