Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 6

[Moonhawk]

A.J.M said:

So basically, we now have people who refuse to accept the democratic will of Scotland because it didn't go their own way.

Well if we have learnt one thing about the nationalist's definition of 'democracy' it's "getting what you voted for".

Anything else simply isn't democracy......obviously.

The thing is - this has probably been one of the most democratic votes this country has seen. Every eligible individual had the opportunity to submit a single vote in an open and fair election and each vote was weighted identically with no individual vote having greater or less worth than another.

[eharding]

fluffnik said:

The Union is over.

"Get used to it"

Sorry Fluffy, the Union isn't over.

The Union has, I grant you, been diseased - and suffering as a result.

But finally the infected area has been isolated, contained, and the painful abscess finally lanced.

The Union will be a different entity as a result - as are we all when we develop an immunity to a specific disease - but it will emerge all the stronger.

What you need to decide is whether you want to remain as part of the previously infected tissue, swilling around in the system, remaining as a minor irritant requiring ongoing out-patient care from time to time, or whether to want the body as a whole to grow and thrive.

I think I can guess which you'll choose.

[whoami]

A.J.M said:

Well the fights have started, we knew whoever won it would happen.

There are now fb groups called "the 45" and "the 55"

So basically, we now have people who refuse to accept the democratic will of Scotland because it didn't go their own way.
The fact I have 19 "friends" on the 45 saddens me as half of them were always the first to shout out a yes vote is final and that's that.

fking idiots the lot of them. Both sides.

This will get ugly before it gets remotely better.

Thankfully, like all flavours of underclass, their attention span is minimal.

A hundred scum, short lifespan; forgotten.

[Mr_B]

Wonder what made 15% not bother to vote ? I mean moaning about an 85% turn out on the face of it seems mad, but since that 15% bothered to register to vote, plus 3 or 4% I think it was that didn't even bother to register but were eligible to, that's a decent chunk of people that couldn't care less if they woke up not caring which country they were.

[eharding]

A.J.M said:

There are now fb groups called "the 45" and "the 55"

Both FB camps conveniently labelling themselves with the average IQ of the members.

[Jader1973]

I suspect the nonsense in George Square has more to do with religion than politics.

After they haven't had a chance to have a good rammy since the Old Firm got split up.

Hopefully Strathclyde's finest haven't forgotten how to handle it.

[Catz]

Mr_B said:

Wonder what made 15% not bother to vote ? I mean moaning about an 85% turn out on the face of it seems mad, but since that 15% bothered to register to vote, plus 3 or 4% I think it was that didn't even bother to register but were eligible to, that's a decent chunk of people that couldn't care less if they woke up not caring which country they were.

The folk I know who didn't vote didn't agree with either yes or no vote. They wanted a devo max vote but it wasn't an option so they took the option of abstaining.

[toppstuff]

fluffnik said:

whoami said:

fluffnik said:

Which is why getting rid of the UK was/is the simple and effective solution!

How do you feel?

Bit gutted, moving on...

There's a facebook group called "We are the 45%" it already has over 89,000 members, we're not going back in the box!

But surely it is the Settled Will of the Scottish people?

Just because you don't like it does not change this fact.

[Wrathalanche]

Jader1973 said:

I suspect the nonsense in George Square has more to do with religion than politics.

After they haven't had a chance to have a good rammy since the Old Firm got split up.

Hopefully Strathclyde's finest haven't forgotten how to handle it.

I just returned from a night out in Glasgow City centre and it was a perfectly normal, if maybe a bit sombre, Friday night everywhere other than George Square. To be honest over the past week, almost every shot I've seen of the Pro-no campaigners (the ones with Union jacks everywhere) have certainly struck me as having a look of the 'lodge' about them. Tonight was no different. If you look at the footage from No Thanks central last night as the votes were being counted, those types were nowhere to be seen.

I've always said, and I think it was proven last night, that in the case of the No vote, the campaign shouldn't be confused with its followers. The Yes campaign, to both its credit and harm, couldn't say this.

[5pen]

fluffnik said:

The Union is over.

"Get used to it"

Ah, I remember when I had my first pint.

[0a]

There was a fantastic atmosphere at work today - one of relief, but one of being able to look forward and plan beyond a few weeks. We went for lunch, then went for drinks after work (we'd never normally do that with such a number!).

I've never been through a country potentially breaking up before - it was a unique day, brilliant, even the few 'yes' staff members joined in. (5 out of 10 of our top email domains for orders are financial service companies). We did no work in recognition of the fact we can all come back on monday with confidence!

I was knackered from being up last night, but at least I won (by chance!) the vote % thread.

[Wombat3]

Catz said:

Mr_B said:

Wonder what made 15% not bother to vote ? I mean moaning about an 85% turn out on the face of it seems mad, but since that 15% bothered to register to vote, plus 3 or 4% I think it was that didn't even bother to register but were eligible to, that's a decent chunk of people that couldn't care less if they woke up not caring which country they were.

The folk I know who didn't vote didn't agree with either yes or no vote. They wanted a devo max vote but it wasn't an option so they took the option of abstaining.

A spectacularly dense position to take under the circumstances I think. Over half a million people appear to have not been bothered to vote. My guess would be that most of them were "no change" voters who didn't believe the thing would be lost. A bit risky, but they would appear to have got away with it!

I'd find it hard to believe that any significant number of Yes voters didn't bother or forgot to vote and fairly incomprehensible that people just didn't care one way or the other.

The most likely reality is therefore that the margin of No to Yes is probably wider than the figures suggest.

[Ridgemont]

Well this thread is done. I stumbled into the thread back in early 2013 largely as I was infuriated by what appeared to be a complete lack of discussion on such an issue of enormous moment from a unionist perspective.

It has provided me with humour and insight throughout, and has largely been a pleasure. The referendum turned out to be every bit as painful and nail biting as I anticipated but the contributions of posters have largely ameliorated that.

The union won. Thank fk. At what cost we'll uncover over the next month's as politicians attempt to unravel the mess of the ex primementalist's constitutional intervention. But the union holds. So screw you fluff.

My only observations about the future for Scotland is that it faces a safer future now that changing gambler salmond is gone and that things will calm down. It is indicative that disappointed bravehearts are attempting to muster again after their defeat; that they choose the nom du guerre of 'the 45' should reassure every unionist;

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobite_rising_of_...

The 45 has the historical resonance of lost ancient causes which fade from memory as the tide of madness recedes...

Either way. Peace!

Edited by Ridgemont on Saturday 20th September 00:27

Edited by Ridgemont on Saturday 20th September 00:28

[fluffnik]

Alpacaman said:

As I suspected the yes supporters simply won't accept the result and move on and try and work together to make Scotland better.

If there is a genuine properly federal solution, a la Suisse, which would require England to be split into manageable chunks, it will have my support (even though I think the UK layer utterly superfluous when we have the EU).

Reneging on the promises which secured the No will not.

[fluffnik]

Ridgemont said:

But the union holds. So screw you fluff.

For the moment, so screw you too!

[Moonhawk]

Wombat3 said:

The most likely reality is therefore that the margin of No to Yes is probably wider than the figures suggest.

Well quite. Given how the polls showed "No" ahead at virtually every stage over the two years up to the referendum - it was quite clear to everyone involved that an abstained vote was, for all intents and purposes, a vote for the status quo.

Given that fact - the actual Yes votes cast (i.e. the votes cast purposefully in favour of independence) represent the views of only 37.8% of the total electorate.

Edited by Moonhawk on Saturday 20th September 00:28

[Moonhawk]

fluffnik said:

For the moment, so screw you too!

"You must live in the present, launch yourself on every wave, find your eternity in each moment. Fools stand on their island of opportunities and look toward another land. There is no other land; there is no other life but this."

- Henry David Thoreau

[TokyoSexwhale]

fluffnik said:

Ridgemont said:

But the union holds. So screw you fluff.

For the moment, so screw you too!

It'll be a pretty long moment!

[hidetheelephants]

rhinochopig said:

skyrover said:

Russia claims the Scottish referendum "did not meet international rules" and was "inferior to Crimean referendum" because "too much space and stamps not used"

http://ria.ru/world/20140919/1024703912.html

That and a distinct lack of T-80 MBTs helping voters decide.

There was also a distinct lack of voter intimidation, brutality, secret police, militia presence and far too much transparency and process oversight.

PhilboSE said:

Well he ought to; he and his party have been a 1-trick pony and their bluff has been called. However I suspect that all the fervent nationalism (really anti-English xenophobia) that they have stirred up will result in a win for the SNP making Sturgeon First Minister.

It's better to be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and confirm it; the SNP have been in government in Scotland since 2007, they may be many things but they are not one-trick ponies.

Jader1973 said:

I suspect the nonsense in George Square has more to do with religion than politics.

After they haven't had a chance to have a good rammy since the Old Firm got split up.

Hopefully Strathclyde's finest haven't forgotten how to handle it.

I think I may have found the problem; Strathclyde Police haven't existed for some time. We have some ersatz national 'force' imaginatively called Police Scotland.

Edited by hidetheelephants on Saturday 20th September 04:44

[McWigglebum4th]

A.J.M said:

Well the fights have started, we knew whoever won it would happen.

There are now fb groups called "the 45" and "the 55"

So basically, we now have people who refuse to accept the democratic will of Scotland because it didn't go their own way.
The fact I have 19 "friends" on the 45 saddens me as half of them were always the first to shout out a yes vote is final and that's that.

fking idiots the lot of them. Both sides.

This will get ugly before it gets remotely better.

time for a face book cull


i have 2 work colleagues who i have on FB who are part of the 45%

If i ever change jobs they will be dropped instantly

At the present moment it makes for a happier place to just nod and let them get one with it

As any online debate with them normally ended with them saying go back to england