Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 6

[lamboman100]

ash73 said:

lamboman100 said:

28 of the 32 Scotland wards voted "No".

That is an 88% win for the "No" campaign.

It wasn't a first past the post vote, "No" won 55/45, anything else is irrelevant and childish spin.

It is a cold, hard, 100% indisputable fact.

28 of the 32 wards voted "No".

88% of all wards in all of Scotland voted and chose "No".

The "Nos" have it.

The tiny blue-green bit is the "Yes" wards. The huge red chunk is the "No" wards:

[r11co]

johnxjsc1985 said:

I still don't understand how they got away without saying anything substantial. We still do not know what currency they would have used and yet they managed to dodge the question for best part of 2 years.

I heard it said from many people that a 'near-miss' was the best possible result for Salmond as it would send enough shock-waves around to achieve some change without the SNP's white paper pledges actually having to be implemented.

Salmond was very quick to put the onus on the other side to achieve change in his resignation speech. Hang on - thought that was supposed to be his job? He's still First Minister after all. The resignation was almost certainly a planned move to take the SNP out of the fallout zone.

[r11co]

lamboman100 said:

The tiny blue-green bit is the "Yes" wards. The huge red chunk is the "No" wards:

Missing the point a bit though. The tiny green bits are some of the most densely populated areas. A lot of the big red bits are just sheep and trees (although I do believe there were talks to give them the vote. )

[2013BRM]

Garvin said:

2013BRM said:

I apologise if you feel I insulted you Garvin, I certainly did my best to prevent that. I agree I am in the company of some who are vastly better equipped intellectually and emotionally, I write as a political numpty who has become engaged because of recent events. Once again, sorry if you feel I offended you but I wont let my challenged intellect prevent me having a go

Well, this is certainly a first in my experience and I accept your apology. I wholeheartedly agree that no one should ever be prevented from 'having a go'.

Personally, I do not believe statements anyone, anywhere makes unless they provide compelling evidence that they are correct or my own research and experience convinces me so. I wish all people would adopt a similar healthy scepticism - all politicians should be challenged, and challenged really hard. This why I challenged your original statement.

What really dismayed me about the independence referendum was the sheer amount of people who took Salmond's and Sturgeon's unsubstantiated assertions at face value and regurgitated them as fact. To me the whole campaign was characterised by, in the main, yes supporters believing deceit and lies without any real challenge and no voters trying to make rational sense of what was being stated. I like to believe that is why the yes campaign failed.

So keep 'having a go' but, if I'm around, expect me to robustly challenge any statements made to validate, or otherwise, their credibility.

perfect.

Don't be dismayed, that's just nature, no sarcasm intended but, the general punter doesn't take as much time as you to look into the facts, they believe what the media tells em. I and those I know back home see Salmond as just another self serving politician and expect to be able to better control things closer to home once their goal had been achieved. I know how they feel, in the Highlands anyway and unless you are a Jock or have close ties with Scotland I just might have the edge over you in that respect.
It's also nature to fear change and the unknown and Cameron and the media did a very good job of highlighting that. The turnout by the young was unusually high too and, I believe, voted Yes, this makes sense as they are too remote from pension worries or understand the state support system but are pretty proud of their roots. I think the campaign did a lot to galvanise the young and disenfranchised to look a little deeper into how their country is governed and by whom.

I thought before I wrote that

[2013BRM]

r11co said:

lamboman100 said:

The tiny blue-green bit is the "Yes" wards. The huge red chunk is the "No" wards:

Missing the point a bit though. The tiny green bits are some of the most densely populated areas. A lot of the big red bits are just sheep and trees.

stupid sheep, stupid trees

[Borghetto]

r11co said:

Missing the point a bit though. The tiny green bits are some of the most densely populated areas. A lot of the big red bits are just sheep and trees (although I do believe there were talks to give them the vote. )

Even Salmond realised that the livestock would see through his lies.

[xjsdriver]

GetCarter said:

'cept loads of SNP voters voted 'no' (see demographic in post earlier)

This referendum was never about one's personal political persuasion - sadly, most elder people were swayed by fears over their pensions. The 45% represent the future of Scotland. The elderly were also probably swayed by nostalgic memories of an empire past, when Britain did indeed rule the waves. The days of empire are long past and the attitudes of those who hold these outdated ideals, will dwindle over the coming years. It's no longer a question of if Scotland will become independent - but when....

[glazbagun]

lamboman100 said:

ash73 said:

lamboman100 said:

28 of the 32 Scotland wards voted "No".

That is an 88% win for the "No" campaign.

It wasn't a first past the post vote, "No" won 55/45, anything else is irrelevant and childish spin.

It is a cold, hard, 100% indisputable fact.

28 of the 32 wards voted "No".

88% of all wards in all of Scotland voted and chose "No".

Saying this ^^ is not the same as this:

lamboman100 said:

That is an 88% win for the "No" campaign.

And I think you know it.

The BBC's Map is pretty rubbish, TBH. This one is better but I can't find one where they've mixed colours in proportion to the vote, which would give a better idea of strength of vote. I'd photoshop one up but I'm too busy at the moment, I'm sure someone else can oblige.

[GetCarter]

r11co said:

lamboman100 said:

The tiny blue-green bit is the "Yes" wards. The huge red chunk is the "No" wards:

Missing the point a bit though. The tiny green bits are some of the most densely populated areas. A lot of the big red bits are just sheep and trees

Red bits hold the majority of the Scottish human population... who all voted no

[GetCarter]

xjsdriver said:

GetCarter said:

'cept loads of SNP voters voted 'no' (see demographic in post earlier)

This referendum was never about one's personal political persuasion - sadly, most elder people were swayed by fears over their pensions. The 45% represent the future of Scotland. The elderly were also probably swayed by nostalgic memories of an empire past, when Britain did indeed rule the waves. The days of empire are long past and the attitudes of those who hold these outdated ideals, will dwindle over the coming years. It's no longer a question of if Scotland will become independent - but when....

Note... mostly young, D & E voted yes.

ETA, luckily they won't get another chance for a long, long time. By which time they might have made it to C

Edited by GetCarter on Saturday 20th September 13:44

[ShaunTheSheep]

r11co said:

lamboman100 said:

The tiny blue-green bit is the "Yes" wards. The huge red chunk is the "No" wards:

Missing the point a bit though. The tiny green bits are some of the most densely populated areas. A lot of the big red bits are just sheep and trees (although I do believe there were talks to give them the vote. )

It's not first past the post. This graphic shows NOTHING of relevance to the outcome.

Repeat after me, this graphic contains no information of relevance to the outcome. None, Nada. Zero.

[HenryJM]

xjsdriver said:

GetCarter said:

'cept loads of SNP voters voted 'no' (see demographic in post earlier)

This referendum was never about one's personal political persuasion - sadly, most elder people were swayed by fears over their pensions. The 45% represent the future of Scotland. The elderly were also probably swayed by nostalgic memories of an empire past, when Britain did indeed rule the waves. The days of empire are long past and the attitudes of those who hold these outdated ideals, will dwindle over the coming years. It's no longer a question of if Scotland will become independent - but when....

Well last time this was voted on the result was 51.6% yes and 48.4% no, independence only didn't happen because the ruling was for 50% of the electorate and not 50% of those who voted.

So being a shade over 55% to remain and under 45% to leave is pretty conclusive that independencce is not what scotland wants, certainly by previous history.

[xjsdriver]

HenryJM said:

xjsdriver said:

GetCarter said:

'cept loads of SNP voters voted 'no' (see demographic in post earlier)

This referendum was never about one's personal political persuasion - sadly, most elder people were swayed by fears over their pensions. The 45% represent the future of Scotland. The elderly were also probably swayed by nostalgic memories of an empire past, when Britain did indeed rule the waves. The days of empire are long past and the attitudes of those who hold these outdated ideals, will dwindle over the coming years. It's no longer a question of if Scotland will become independent - but when....

Well last time this was voted on the result was 51.6% yes and 48.4% no, independence only didn't happen because the ruling was for 50% of the electorate and not 50% of those who voted.

So being a shade over 55% to remain and under 45% to leave is pretty conclusive that independencce is not what scotland wants, certainly by previous history.

What the demographic information shows is that it's the over 65s who don't want change. The majority of younger people do want independence and attitudes to becoming independent will change over the next 20 to 25 years as the attitudes of those over 65 dwindle, as they do....

[GetCarter]

ShaunTheSheep said:

r11co said:

lamboman100 said:

The tiny blue-green bit is the "Yes" wards. The huge red chunk is the "No" wards:

Missing the point a bit though. The tiny green bits are some of the most densely populated areas. A lot of the big red bits are just sheep and trees (although I do believe there were talks to give them the vote. )

It's not first past the post. This graphic shows NOTHING of relevance to the outcome.

Repeat after me, this graphic contains no information of relevance to the outcome. None, Nada. Zero.

I don't think we are arguing against each other here, but the graphic shows that 28 of the 32 constituencies voted no. So if it had been a general election type vote, it would have been a landslide. As it was, first past the post, it was 55/45, rather than 28/4.

Whatever it was, it was a relief... I don't have to buy a place down south as my primary residence, and can continue to give my taxes to all of UK, rather than only England.

[lamboman100]

r11co said:

lamboman100 said:

The tiny blue-green bit is the "Yes" wards. The huge red chunk is the "No" wards:

Missing the point a bit though. The tiny green bits are some of the most densely populated areas. A lot of the big red bits are just sheep and trees (although I do believe there were talks to give them the vote. )

The tiny green bits make up less than 22% of the entire Scotland population!

Referring to the other 28 wards as "just sheep and trees" is an insult to the rest of the Scottish people.

[Funk]

Did I read things right in that the two regions with the highest 'Yes' votes also had the lowest turnouts (Glasgow and Dundee)?

[lamboman100]

ShaunTheSheep said:

r11co said:

lamboman100 said:

The tiny blue-green bit is the "Yes" wards. The huge red chunk is the "No" wards:

Missing the point a bit though. The tiny green bits are some of the most densely populated areas. A lot of the big red bits are just sheep and trees (although I do believe there were talks to give them the vote. )

It's not first past the post. This graphic shows NOTHING of relevance to the outcome.

Repeat after me, this graphic contains no information of relevance to the outcome. None, Nada. Zero.

Breathe deep, and repeat -- 28 of the the 32 wards voted "No".

The election map very clearly shows a sea of red.

After years of campaigning and millions spent by the "Yes" separatists.

It was / is a landslide victory for the "No" team.

The "silent majority" beat the vocal, separatist, Anglophobic, extremists.

[deadslow]

lamboman100 said:

ShaunTheSheep said:

r11co said:

lamboman100 said:

The tiny blue-green bit is the "Yes" wards. The huge red chunk is the "No" wards:

Missing the point a bit though. The tiny green bits are some of the most densely populated areas. A lot of the big red bits are just sheep and trees (although I do believe there were talks to give them the vote. )

It's not first past the post. This graphic shows NOTHING of relevance to the outcome.

Repeat after me, this graphic contains no information of relevance to the outcome. None, Nada. Zero.

Breathe deep, and repeat -- 28 of the the 32 wards voted "No".

The election map very clearly shows a sea of red.

After years of campaigning and millions spent by the "Yes" separatists.

It was / is a landslide victory for the "No" team.

The "silent majority" beat the vocal, separatist, Anglophobic, extremists.

You should be a politician. You talk utter ste

[2013BRM]

http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2014/09/scotland-vote...

[Olivera]

lamboman100 said:

ShaunTheSheep said:

r11co said:

lamboman100 said:

The tiny blue-green bit is the "Yes" wards. The huge red chunk is the "No" wards:

Missing the point a bit though. The tiny green bits are some of the most densely populated areas. A lot of the big red bits are just sheep and trees (although I do believe there were talks to give them the vote. )

It's not first past the post. This graphic shows NOTHING of relevance to the outcome.

Repeat after me, this graphic contains no information of relevance to the outcome. None, Nada. Zero.

Breathe deep, and repeat -- 28 of the the 32 wards voted "No".

The election map very clearly shows a sea of red.

After years of campaigning and millions spent by the "Yes" separatists.

It was / is a landslide victory for the "No" team.

The "silent majority" beat the vocal, separatist, Anglophobic, extremists.

I agree it was a clear no victory, but as I originally stated on this thread, the above graphic is utterly nonsensical in a non-constitutency, non-first-past-the-post referendum. Can we please stop posting it as it's lowering the quality of the debate.