Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 6
Discussion
///ajd said:
Thinking out loud here, but isn't it time that Scots showed some real commitment to the union?
55% have said lets stay, but clearly alot are still raking through the coals and muttering about more powers.
It feels more like there should be a concerted effort now to make the union work and be a rather more enthusiastic and less moaning partner.
The T26 contract worth £10Bn+ and securing Clyde shipbuilding for a generation is always something I felt was the right thing for the UK to be doing, but I'm now left wondering if the UK shouldn't be expecting at least some recognition that such a contract is a tremendously positive result if the union.
I can't help feeling it won't be recognised at all and I must confess that this is not really hiw the union should be. It is a bit broken, and it is not about new powers but about Scotland not taking all the positive things so much for granted.
Am I alone in thinking like this?
No you are not alone.55% have said lets stay, but clearly alot are still raking through the coals and muttering about more powers.
It feels more like there should be a concerted effort now to make the union work and be a rather more enthusiastic and less moaning partner.
The T26 contract worth £10Bn+ and securing Clyde shipbuilding for a generation is always something I felt was the right thing for the UK to be doing, but I'm now left wondering if the UK shouldn't be expecting at least some recognition that such a contract is a tremendously positive result if the union.
I can't help feeling it won't be recognised at all and I must confess that this is not really hiw the union should be. It is a bit broken, and it is not about new powers but about Scotland not taking all the positive things so much for granted.
Am I alone in thinking like this?
They would be quite happy to see NI and Wales cut adrift if England also wanted independence.
they are still gobbing off about what they want as if we are blessed by their presence.
Its either a Union or it isn't. Personally I think the vast majority excluding the Conurbation of Glasgow see the strength of the Union and I too believe we are better together but not whilst one party thinks they are more important than the others in the Union
I suspect one reason a lot of young people voted yes is that they are spoon fed Scottish Government propaganda from an early age at school. I was talking to someone who worked in a primary school who was sent a pack for the children telling them how wonderful independence would be for the country yet giving no alternative view, they were so appalled they shredded the lot. So I dread to think what high school pupils were given. So that's the most important thing to make sure the children of this country are given a one sided biased view of the world and not just given both sides and allowed to make up their own minds. That's why 16 and 17 year olds were given the vote. But of course it was the no side who get accused of trying to rig the election.
On a slightly different aspect of the vote - I daren't start a new thread - the turnout was impressive. Quite remarkable. To get the electorate to be concerned is a significant achievement. It would be good to see the electorate all over the country being that committed.
The problem, if it is a problem, is that it was a one issue vote and not party-political. So those who voted were not voting for a party.
We have, south of the border, interest in the UKIP, again based on two issues.
I think I know the reason voters are not that bothered. The PCC elections were a case in point. 14% overall, 10% in some places.
Why are good [wo]men doing nothing?
The problem, if it is a problem, is that it was a one issue vote and not party-political. So those who voted were not voting for a party.
We have, south of the border, interest in the UKIP, again based on two issues.
I think I know the reason voters are not that bothered. The PCC elections were a case in point. 14% overall, 10% in some places.
Why are good [wo]men doing nothing?
hidetheelephants said:
Fracking is not magically going to lower the oil price; there are costs involved and the volumes of produced oil and gas will not increase quickly enough to make much if any difference to the world price. The benefits of it will mostly be in the revenue to the exchequer and jobs created in the UK, and the less tangible benefit of greater energy security.
I agree fracking in the UK won't lower the oil price in itself but the vast US reserves are one element in a complex picture. Current oil prices, WTI and Brent, are down yet in the past situations such as Ukraine/Russia, Libya's ongoing unrest, the ISIS in Iraq, the civil war in Syria, Iranian sanctions and the perpetual Palestine issue would have driven prices up. It's not happening and that's down to the seismic shift in US production (now the world number one producer) and to a lesser, but globally significant, extent softening demand from a slowing Chinese economy. Couple that to the fact that many OPEC members such as Algeria, Angola, Nigeria and Venezuela won't cut production because they desperately need instant cash. OPEC member Iraq actually hopes to increase production with its eye on the Asian market, but with discoveries of shale gas in China it's a moot point how much they will actually shift.All that is on the supply side, if the demand side changes then it will get worse. Electric vehicles are now all but mainstream and we'll see a tipping point in the next two decades. Alternative power generation is probably further behind that but in the next half century it'll be here.
That over-supply will keep prices depressed for long enough - medium term- to stymie any half baked independence budget - Swinney relied on at least $110 to balance the last proposal and today Brent is sitting just north of $98 with a 12 month forecast of $106. (Spot figures I appreciate but a good basis).
The point remains that almost from the point of this referendum the fiscal position overall will deteriorate due to reduced oil income and despite SNP claims other countries have viable wind & wave options. Couple that to the ageing population and the economy needs structural changes to keep itself afloat let alone create some "14th richest country" nonsense.
ash73 said:
Fair enough, let's look at the previous 5 years here combined with 2012/2013 here
According to my sums, Scotland has provided 9.6% of revenue (including north sea oil), and received only 9.3% of expenditure.
When politicians want to lie about something - they use percentages. According to my sums, Scotland has provided 9.6% of revenue (including north sea oil), and received only 9.3% of expenditure.
Look at it in £ terms.
Scotland contributes £317.1 Scotland gets £370.6
Scotland benefits by £53.5
It really is f
king unfair... isn't it. 
I am scottish born and bred lived in the Highlands all my days, I have voted in every election since I was 18 General, Local, Scottish, Europeanand Council, I have never voted for anyone other than the tory candidate, I cant even remember what the actual question asked in the 79 referendum was but I voted against it and voted no on Thursday, 2 days since the vote and already I feel we should have all voted yes and let the 45% get on with it because there never going to give up. If I could afford to retire now I would be on the first plane to the Canaries never to return.
ash73 said:
plasticpig said:
That's one years figures. Do you make decisions based on one years figures?
Fair enough, let's look at the previous 5 years here combined with 2012/2013 hereAccording to my sums, Scotland has provided 9.6% of revenue (including north sea oil), and received only 9.3% of expenditure.
MiniMan64 said:
Surprised there wasn't more shock on here when Salmond fell on his sword. The general assessment on here seemed to be he wasn't going anywhere, even if Scotland voted 100:0 against him.
I think the trigger for that was that even his own constituents didn't support him. 60.36% voted against him.imagineifyeswill said:
I am scottish born and bred lived in the Highlands all my days, I have voted in every election since I was 18 General, Local, Scottish, Europeanand Council, I have never voted for anyone other than the tory candidate, I cant even remember what the actual question asked in the 79 referendum was but I voted against it and voted no on Thursday, 2 days since the vote and already I feel we should have all voted yes and let the 45% get on with it because there never going to give up. If I could afford to retire now I would be on the first plane to the Canaries never to return.
You sound like an alright guy apart from your voting preferences,I will never understand why you did what you did and you did not want the country that you obviuosly love to have its independence,do you seriously think things are alright.I am one of the 45% and I will go to my grave saying "I told you so",it gives me no pleasure.Fordy Bob said:
You sound like an alright guy apart from your voting preferences,I will never understand why you did what you did and you did not want the country that you obviuosly love to have its independence,do you seriously think things are alright.I am one of the 45% and I will go to my grave saying "I told you so",it gives me no pleasure.
Perhaps because the plans for independence amounted to committing economic stupicide. Who could vote for that if they love their country?johnxjsc1985 said:
the minority which the 45% represent still seem to think they are more Scottish than the others who voted No.
Personally I think the opposite the "GOOD" people of Scotland voted NO.
I can only assume you did not wittness the No voters in George Square last night giving Nazi salutes and burning Scottish flags.Yip they are realy "GOOD" people.Personally I think the opposite the "GOOD" people of Scotland voted NO.
Fordy Bob said:
johnxjsc1985 said:
the minority which the 45% represent still seem to think they are more Scottish than the others who voted No.
Personally I think the opposite the "GOOD" people of Scotland voted NO.
I can only assume you did not wittness the No voters in George Square last night giving Nazi salutes and burning Scottish flags.Yip they are realy "GOOD" people.Personally I think the opposite the "GOOD" people of Scotland voted NO.
Never mind see how fast the UK government backtracks on their promises to the Scots.They have voted no and London is in charge.
Fordy Bob said:
johnxjsc1985 said:
the minority which the 45% represent still seem to think they are more Scottish than the others who voted No.
Personally I think the opposite the "GOOD" people of Scotland voted NO.
I can only assume you did not wittness the No voters in George Square last night giving Nazi salutes and burning Scottish flags.Yip they are realy "GOOD" people.Personally I think the opposite the "GOOD" people of Scotland voted NO.
Troubleatmill said:
ash73 said:
Fair enough, let's look at the previous 5 years here combined with 2012/2013 here
According to my sums, Scotland has provided 9.6% of revenue (including north sea oil), and received only 9.3% of expenditure.
When politicians want to lie about something - they use percentages. According to my sums, Scotland has provided 9.6% of revenue (including north sea oil), and received only 9.3% of expenditure.
Look at it in £ terms.
Scotland contributes £317.1 Scotland gets £370.6
Scotland benefits by £53.5
It really is f
king unfair... isn't it. s2art said:
Perhaps because the plans for independence amounted to committing economic stupicide. Who could vote for that if they love their country?
Give us a break,with the you couldnt aford to go it alone crap,do you realy think the only reason Cameron didnt want to loose us was because he loved us so much,I think not.Two types of people voted No, rich folk and scared folk,already they are regreting what they did.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff