Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 6

[Axionknight]

ash73 said:

omg, how can people be so thick? The UK deficit is about £110B per year.

Without a doubt, but cast your eyes over these figures here:

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2014/03/78...

8.6 billion a year, give or take, based on a geographical share of O&G revenues, now, feel free to tell us where this money would come from, as a currency union in the event of the Yes vote would have been very unlikely, iScotland would have no lender of last resort, or central bank to issue bonds ETC.

It could of course borrow from international markets ETC, can you tell us what the rates on such borrowing would be, and how they would have compared to the current borrowing rates the UK has to deal with?

No, of course you can't.

Of course, the government of the day could just cut spending to balance the books, where would you like to start? Perhaps the NHS that the Yes campaign claimed was under threat whilst Scotland remained part of the union, y'know, the DEVOLVED NHS?

[AstonZagato]

Fordy Bob said:

FredericRobinson said:

The only thing that scared me about the whole business was the governing party in a western democracy staging a demonstration outside a broadcaster because it objected to the way it reported the news. That was deeply sinister and unprecedented, I'm not regretting the way I voted.

What proof do you have that the SNP staged the demonstration you mentioned?A demonstration that may indeed not have happened had Nick Robinson of the said broadcaster not been caught out lieing on a national news cast.

Not proof but the circumstantial evidence that it was a "professionally" staged event is strong.

Certainly a suspiciously highly produced banner.

[Janluke]

imagineifyeswill said:

I dont for one minute regret voting no but one of the Yes campaigners favourite phrases was will off the people, but now that the will off the people was No they cant accept and the rest of us are going to have to put up with there whining for evermore.

Its interesting isnt it, over the last few months most of my YES voting friends kept telling me this was a "once in a lifetime opportunity" and it was "now or never". Now the same people are saying they want another vote in a few years

[Troubleatmill]

Janluke said:

imagineifyeswill said:

I dont for one minute regret voting no but one of the Yes campaigners favourite phrases was will off the people, but now that the will off the people was No they cant accept and the rest of us are going to have to put up with there whining for evermore.

Its interesting isnt it, over the last few months most of my YES voting friends kept telling me this was a "once in a lifetime opportunity" and it was "now or never". Now the same people are saying they want another vote in a few years

Sovereign settled will of the Scottish people. don't forget that being relentlessly spouted out over the last 2 years.
Not heard them mutter that much in the last few days though. Odd that.

[fandango_c]

Fordy Bob said:

FredericRobinson said:

The only thing that scared me about the whole business was the governing party in a western democracy staging a demonstration outside a broadcaster because it objected to the way it reported the news. That was deeply sinister and unprecedented, I'm not regretting the way I voted.

What proof do you have that the SNP staged the demonstration you mentioned?A demonstration that may indeed not have happened had Nick Robinson of the said broadcaster not been caught out lieing on a national news cast.

I haven't been following the referendum too closely so have missed this, but can you point out what Nick Robinson said that was a lie?

A link would be useful.

[Troubleatmill]

fandango_c said:

Fordy Bob said:

FredericRobinson said:

The only thing that scared me about the whole business was the governing party in a western democracy staging a demonstration outside a broadcaster because it objected to the way it reported the news. That was deeply sinister and unprecedented, I'm not regretting the way I voted.

What proof do you have that the SNP staged the demonstration you mentioned?A demonstration that may indeed not have happened had Nick Robinson of the said broadcaster not been caught out lieing on a national news cast.

I haven't been following the referendum too closely so have missed this, but can you point out what Nick Robinson said that was a lie?

A link would be useful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHmLb-RIbrM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enrdDaf3uss



Nick asked 2 questions.

This was the second one.

Q/. Why should a Scottish voter believe you; a politican, against men who are responsible for billions of pounds of profits.

A/. Alex Salmond did not answer the question,

Edited by Troubleatmill on Saturday 20th September 22:48

[fandango_c]

Troubleatmill said:

fandango_c said:

Fordy Bob said:

FredericRobinson said:

The only thing that scared me about the whole business was the governing party in a western democracy staging a demonstration outside a broadcaster because it objected to the way it reported the news. That was deeply sinister and unprecedented, I'm not regretting the way I voted.

What proof do you have that the SNP staged the demonstration you mentioned?A demonstration that may indeed not have happened had Nick Robinson of the said broadcaster not been caught out lieing on a national news cast.

I haven't been following the referendum too closely so have missed this, but can you point out what Nick Robinson said that was a lie?

A link would be useful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHmLb-RIbrM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enrdDaf3uss



Nick asked 2 questions.

This was the second one.

Q/. Why should a Scottish voter believe you; a politican, against men who are responsible for billions of pounds of profits.

A/. Alex Salmond did not answer the question,

Edited by Troubleatmill on Saturday 20th September 22:48

Thanks for the reply. I was aware of these questions that Nick Robinson had asked, but wanted to know what he had lied about and was hoping that Fordy Bob could answer that for me.

[BlackLabel]

c8bof said:

I'm another No voter, neither rich nor scared.

I can completely understand the poster above who is sick fed up hearing the constant whining and bhing about the result since Friday morning. The result is what it is. We need to move on now, channel the energy into something positive and heal the massive rift right down the country.

I'm already seeing nonsense on FB about voting the SNP into power so that we can have another referendum by 2018. Dear God, can we not just stop this right now before the rest of the UK thinks we're all fking mental.

I've had enough of this now. I love being Scottish, but right now, I'm just mortified by my own country.

+1

Well said!

[Axionknight]

ash73 said:

Actually I can, it's answered here

Enjoy

Much appreciated, so, increased borrowing costs and spiraling debt at a time when iScotland would have been making its biggest trading partner a foreign country and withdrawing from the EU and losing the trade benefits that brings.

Sounds cracking!!

[Big Rod]

BlackLabel said:

c8bof said:

I'm another No voter, neither rich nor scared.

I can completely understand the poster above who is sick fed up hearing the constant whining and bhing about the result since Friday morning. The result is what it is. We need to move on now, channel the energy into something positive and heal the massive rift right down the country.

I'm already seeing nonsense on FB about voting the SNP into power so that we can have another referendum by 2018. Dear God, can we not just stop this right now before the rest of the UK thinks we're all fking mental.

I've had enough of this now. I love being Scottish, but right now, I'm just mortified by my own country.

+1

Well said!

I'll have a slice of that too.

[anonymous-user]

Axionknight said:

ash73 said:

Actually I can, it's answered here

Enjoy

Much appreciated, so, increased borrowing costs and spiraling debt at a time when iScotland would have been making its biggest trading partner a foreign country and withdrawing from the EU and losing the trade benefits that brings.

Sounds cracking!!

Would this be the paper that has as it's core assumptions that
1.) There is a currency union with rUK
2.) EU membership
3.) Consistent 2% growth
4.) Stable O&G revenue

even with this it's still bad. A few minor changes to GDP and O&G allocation gives a 16%+ fiscal tightening required.

Sounds good

[Axionknight]

wsurfa said:

Would this be the paper that has as it's core assumptions that
1.) There is a currency union with rUK
2.) EU membership
3.) Consistent 2% growth
4.) Stable O&G revenue

even with this it's still bad. A few minor changes to GDP and O&G allocation gives a 16%+ fiscal tightening required.

Sounds good

It must be good, after all nearly 45% of the population voted for it!

Unless of course, many were mislead and didn't have a real appreciation of what they were actually voting for,

[s2art]

ash73 said:

Axionknight said:

It could of course borrow from international markets ETC, can you tell us what the rates on such borrowing would be, and how they would have compared to the current borrowing rates the UK has to deal with?

No, of course you can't.

Actually I can, it's answered here

Enjoy

Actually you cannot. It wasnt answered at all, as the only options considered properly were a currency union, a new Scottish currency or the Euro. Salmond stated that Scotland would use Sterling outside a currency union (Sterlingisation). That would be stupicide. A currency union was never available.

[Jader1973]

This ongoing moaning from the Losers is further demonstration of Alex's lack of ability to lead.

He should have stayed and put his energy into uniting the country, which he would do if he cared about it and didn't only care about himself.

Instead he stands down while at the same time inferring that this isn't over. Pathetic.

The people of Scotland need to unite and get the poison that is the SNP out of power and make supporting them as unacceptable as supporting the BNP.

[Crombers]

Big Rod said:

BlackLabel said:

c8bof said:

sensible stuff.

+1

Well said!

I'll have a slice of that too.

I very much agree.

I have stayed quiet on the run up to the referendum but witnessed a great deal of drivel on social media on which I've held my tongue. I hoped that it would soon stop but it looks as though it's time to explore the de-friend option.

[Slaav]

Troubleatmill said:

Slaav said:

Possibly that graphic should be used along with the EXACT SAME data in several different ways? If a ward was 50/50, then colour that ward 50/50 red and green/blue for instance. If that methodology was used, then one could sit back and decide whether it was slightly redder () or slightly greener (), or indeed, very much more red (or green.)

Would this not give a clear 'feel' for how one sided the vote was (or not)?

Anybody know of similar or got the time and skills do do so?

The guys at the BBC did.... I've posted this link up previously.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-pol...

Edited by Troubleatmill on Saturday 20th September 18:05

Thanks but I did see these and they are the sort of graphics that gave me the idea....

Think back to 'Can't cook, won't cook' or similar one had a simple gut feel based on red or green as a binary vote but it was really easy to see the tough %age at a glance.

Each of the map graphics makes perfect sense but like the best spin t055ers and politicians generally, stats can be used to make almost any argument?

But at least this thread has calmed down a little.....

[Wombat3]

Troubleatmill said:

Janluke said:

imagineifyeswill said:

I dont for one minute regret voting no but one of the Yes campaigners favourite phrases was will off the people, but now that the will off the people was No they cant accept and the rest of us are going to have to put up with there whining for evermore.

Its interesting isnt it, over the last few months most of my YES voting friends kept telling me this was a "once in a lifetime opportunity" and it was "now or never". Now the same people are saying they want another vote in a few years

Sovereign settled will of the Scottish people. don't forget that being relentlessly spouted out over the last 2 years.
Not heard them mutter that much in the last few days though. Odd that.

No but I did chuckle when Cameron used pretty much that exact phrase in his 7am speech

[pingu393]

Slaav said:

Troubleatmill said:

Slaav said:

Possibly that graphic should be used along with the EXACT SAME data in several different ways? If a ward was 50/50, then colour that ward 50/50 red and green/blue for instance. If that methodology was used, then one could sit back and decide whether it was slightly redder () or slightly greener (), or indeed, very much more red (or green.)

Would this not give a clear 'feel' for how one sided the vote was (or not)?

Anybody know of similar or got the time and skills do do so?

The guys at the BBC did.... I've posted this link up previously.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-pol...

Edited by Troubleatmill on Saturday 20th September 18:05

Thanks but I did see these and they are the sort of graphics that gave me the idea....

Think back to 'Can't cook, won't cook' or similar one had a simple gut feel based on red or green as a binary vote but it was really easy to see the tough %age at a glance.

Each of the map graphics makes perfect sense but like the best spin t055ers and politicians generally, stats can be used to make almost any argument?

But at least this thread has calmed down a little.....

As a top spin to$$er, I noticed the similarity between the vote map and the unemployment map, especially Glasgow and Dundee.

[ShaunTheSheep]

wsurfa said:

Axionknight said:

ash73 said:

Actually I can, it's answered here

Would this be the paper that has as it's core assumptions that

... testiculation[1] snipped ...

No.

[1] testiculation: waving ones hands in the air while talking bks

[technodup]

pingu393 said:

As a top spin to$$er, I noticed the similarity between the vote map and the unemployment map, especially Glasgow and Dundee.

I'd like to see a map based on religious leanings. As has been alluded to a couple of times above sectarianism is never far from the surface in the west of Scotland and three out of four Yes wards have high proportions of Catholics, Glasgow and N Lanarkshire particularly.

My FB is full of folk wanting Yes voters banned from Ibrox. As demonstrated by the Rangers flags and chants in George Sq, and the Irish tricolours at Yes events, to many people this was just another manifestation of the Protestant/Catholic, Unionist/Republican, (London)derry divide they could get worked up over.

This was never mentioned on the night by the BBC. What they also missed was that a huge number of football fans (particularly Rangers) have never forgiven Salmond for banning and criminalising many traditional songs sung at matches. They spoke of every other demographic, to omit (or avoid) the sectarian one in the west of Scotland was odd. It was a factor. In Glasgow it always is.