Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 6
Discussion
technodup said:
his. The longer we can drag it out the better. At least until the oil dries up. They had no credible case this time, without oil they'll have no case at all.
Getting rid of a foreign power that's stealing your resources has always been a good enough case for me.I don't despise the UKofGB&NI, the State, any less than I did last week, or last century.
fluffnik said:
Getting rid of a foreign power that's stealing your resources has always been a good enough case for me.
I don't despise the UKofGB&NI, the State, any less than I did last week, or last century.
The settled will of the people of Scotland is to stick with said foreign power, so we must be doing something right.I don't despise the UKofGB&NI, the State, any less than I did last week, or last century.
fluffnik said:
Getting rid of a foreign power that's stealing your resources has always been a good enough case for me.
I don't despise the UKofGB&NI, the State, any less than I did last week, or last century.
Democratic will of the people?I don't despise the UKofGB&NI, the State, any less than I did last week, or last century.
Remember that?
Of course not
I hope the Shetlands gain independence and take the oil with them
Troubleatmill said:
This is the eternal problems with referenda - they are close to an absolute waste of time because they don't resolve anything.Whichever side "loses" they'll keep banging on about their cause.
We might be having one in the whole of the UK shortly on EU membership.
If the "stay in" side wins, do you think UKIP will crawl away and die?
If the "get out" side wins, do you think the Europhiles will crawl away and die?
No - I don't either
fluffnik said:
technodup said:
his. The longer we can drag it out the better. At least until the oil dries up. They had no credible case this time, without oil they'll have no case at all.
Getting rid of a foreign power that's stealing your resources has always been a good enough case for me.I don't despise the UKofGB&NI, the State, any less than I did last week, or last century.
I am not gloating or taking the mickey, just interested. Your optimism was presumably based on the belief that a significant majority of your fellow Scottish believed as you did - I think you predicted victory by a reasonable margin. It is now clear that there remains a decent sized majority of Scottish people who reject independence. Indeed, away from places such as Glasgow, the vote in favour of independence was quite comfortably defeated in many places.
Has this changed your view of your country and the folk you share it with? After all, many of the people you see around you ( who presumably you thought were of the same mind as you ) do not share your view of the world, even though you must have believed they did. Independence is still something only a minority want - in some parts of Scotland quite a small minority.
If you travel around Scotland (away from the pockets where you may get reinforcement of the pro-Indy message and out into the wider parts of Scotland where they just don't feel the same way), do you still see Scotland in the same way you used to?
Blib said:
These youngsters won't carry this fervour through to old age, ES. Each generation goes through the very same change.
t's b
ks anyway. The Yes lot are shouting that 79% of 16/17 year olds voted Yes. It seems this was from the Ashcroft poll and the sample size was 14. When altered to include a proper sample of 16-24 year olds it was 51% Yes.So I've every faith in a few years that group will be back to 'the 45' like the rest of them.
I think it's time for the Yessers to retreat to their 45 Facebook groups and argue amongst themselves. The 55 aren't interested any more.
fluffnik said:
technodup said:
his. The longer we can drag it out the better. At least until the oil dries up. They had no credible case this time, without oil they'll have no case at all.
Getting rid of a foreign power that's stealing your resources has always been a good enough case for me.I don't despise the UKofGB&NI, the State, any less than I did last week, or last century.
You're the reason people think of whinging sweaties whenever Scotlander is mentioned...
ralphrj said:
Jim Sillars (SNP fruitcake who let the slip the plan to nationalise BP and have "a day of reckoning" with businesses) has announced his new SNP plan on twitter:
SNP majority in 2016 Scottish elections = unilateral declaration of independence
Queens intervention in referendum to be paid back with Scottish Republic.
Unilateral declaration of independence = you leave the UK with f#ck all except the clothes on your back?SNP majority in 2016 Scottish elections = unilateral declaration of independence
Queens intervention in referendum to be paid back with Scottish Republic.
Moonhawk said:
ralphrj said:
Jim Sillars (SNP fruitcake who let the slip the plan to nationalise BP and have "a day of reckoning" with businesses) has announced his new SNP plan on twitter:
SNP majority in 2016 Scottish elections = unilateral declaration of independence
Queens intervention in referendum to be paid back with Scottish Republic.
Unilateral declaration of independence = you leave the UK with f#ck all except the clothes on your back?SNP majority in 2016 Scottish elections = unilateral declaration of independence
Queens intervention in referendum to be paid back with Scottish Republic.
Troubleatmill said:
rs1952 said:
If the "stay in" side wins, do you think UKIP will crawl away and die?
If the "get out" side wins, do you think the Europhiles will crawl away and die?
No - I don't either
"What do we want?" If the "get out" side wins, do you think the Europhiles will crawl away and die?
No - I don't either
"Closure!"
"When do we want it?"
fluffnik said:
Getting rid of a foreign power that's stealing your resources has always been a good enough case for me.
Nobody is stealing anything from Scotland. Scotland freely entered the union and agreed to share its wealth and resources.Accusing rUK of stealing resources is as nonsensical as rUK accusing Scotland of stealing English and Welsh coal, cotton, steel, slate etc during the industrial revolution?
Different areas of the UK have mined resources or generated wealth at different times throughout the union's history - and the whole UK has benefitted. Why shouldn't Scotland contribute whilst it has the means to do so.
Edited by Moonhawk on Sunday 21st September 21:20
hidetheelephants said:
///ajd said:
el stovey said:
///ajd said:
It is interesting that when it suits, 1979 is 'last time', yet when the comparison is not positive, it was 'totally different'.
Anyway, El, if you are convinced independence is certain, what should the rUK do about investing strategically in Scotland? Sounds like a poor deal for the rUK when you split and leave with the proceeds of 60m for the benefit of 5m.
Sounds like you think the T26 contract should not go to the Clyde if independence is inevitable, and you only wish ill on the union. What are we all to do?
Quite right. I think it's only a matter of time before Scotland breaks away. I think a Conservative UK government should plan accordingly. I certainly would if I was a Conservative PM. Labour obviously have to concentrate on winning Scotland back and if/when they get in will no doubt do whatever possible to do so.Anyway, El, if you are convinced independence is certain, what should the rUK do about investing strategically in Scotland? Sounds like a poor deal for the rUK when you split and leave with the proceeds of 60m for the benefit of 5m.
Sounds like you think the T26 contract should not go to the Clyde if independence is inevitable, and you only wish ill on the union. What are we all to do?
So rUK should award T26 in rUK, and presumably scale back Scottish renewable subsidies from 30% to per capita 8%.
Perhaps the big three could put that in their 2015 manifestos. If Scotland votes in a nationalist majority again in 2016, steps will be taken to make all Scottish investments fair but tactical and per capita, and not strategic to the possible detriment of the rUK in the case of future split.
Does the rUK do nothing and carry on with letting the SG carry on hurling abuse and making threats unchecked? I'm totally fed up with it. If we are to have another separatist government in Scotland, something has to be done to either reinforce the union or prepare for ejection.
If Scotland keeps voting SNP, and we keep having these destructive votes, the rUK can't just stand by.
Blib said:
s2art said:
Efbe said:
Blib said:
el stovey said:
It wasn't the same thing at all.
Support for Scottish Independence is clearly increasing. You said support had decreased and used a referendum on something different to try and prove it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/events/scotland-decides/...
What's more important are the demographics of YES voters indicating that as time goes on, it's likely that support will increase even more.
That won't work. Demographics change. Those youthful, "yes" voters will get older in turn and will become more 'conservative'(sic0 in their outlook and voting intentions. It was ever thus.Support for Scottish Independence is clearly increasing. You said support had decreased and used a referendum on something different to try and prove it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/events/scotland-decides/...
What's more important are the demographics of YES voters indicating that as time goes on, it's likely that support will increase even more.
Edited by el stovey on Sunday 21st September 18:14
tty kids... like me.otherwise social attitudes would have remained the same since homo sapiens evolved!
I see what you are saying, and yes there is a change in personal attitudes throughout your life.
But even so, social attitudes to change. But as I stated before, each generation is different. Think how different your attitudes are compared to your grandparents. If what you are saying was correct, the politics would be pointless, all you would be doing is measuring societies' average age.
fluffnik said:
technodup said:
his. The longer we can drag it out the better. At least until the oil dries up. They had no credible case this time, without oil they'll have no case at all.
Getting rid of a foreign power that's stealing your resources has always been a good enough case for me.I don't despise the UKofGB&NI, the State, any less than I did last week, or last century.
///ajd said:
hidetheelephants said:
///ajd said:
el stovey said:
///ajd said:
It is interesting that when it suits, 1979 is 'last time', yet when the comparison is not positive, it was 'totally different'.
Anyway, El, if you are convinced independence is certain, what should the rUK do about investing strategically in Scotland? Sounds like a poor deal for the rUK when you split and leave with the proceeds of 60m for the benefit of 5m.
Sounds like you think the T26 contract should not go to the Clyde if independence is inevitable, and you only wish ill on the union. What are we all to do?
Quite right. I think it's only a matter of time before Scotland breaks away. I think a Conservative UK government should plan accordingly. I certainly would if I was a Conservative PM. Labour obviously have to concentrate on winning Scotland back and if/when they get in will no doubt do whatever possible to do so.Anyway, El, if you are convinced independence is certain, what should the rUK do about investing strategically in Scotland? Sounds like a poor deal for the rUK when you split and leave with the proceeds of 60m for the benefit of 5m.
Sounds like you think the T26 contract should not go to the Clyde if independence is inevitable, and you only wish ill on the union. What are we all to do?
So rUK should award T26 in rUK, and presumably scale back Scottish renewable subsidies from 30% to per capita 8%.
Perhaps the big three could put that in their 2015 manifestos. If Scotland votes in a nationalist majority again in 2016, steps will be taken to make all Scottish investments fair but tactical and per capita, and not strategic to the possible detriment of the rUK in the case of future split.
Does the rUK do nothing and carry on with letting the SG carry on hurling abuse and making threats unchecked? I'm totally fed up with it. If we are to have another separatist government in Scotland, something has to be done to either reinforce the union or prepare for ejection.
If Scotland keeps voting SNP, and we keep having these destructive votes, the rUK can't just stand by.
fluffnik said:
imagineifyeswill said:
I dont think anyone believes last nights debacle in George Square was representative off your average NO voter anymore than some of the worst YES campaign behavior was typical of the majority off YES voters.
They are stereotypically British though. 
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