Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 6

[Wrathalanche]

xjsdriver said:

SpeedMattersNot said:

I kept checking at the time on this topic, but what was the general opinion on here regarding the unionists activities reported in the media?

On my Facebook, all Scots I knew were objecting to the antics performed by the apparent 'no' voters who were acting in an unsavoury manor despite getting the result they wanted?

There was a poster on here, who'd enlightened us all by informing us it was just some right wing neds causing trouble (a nothing to see here moment - if you will). Imagine the uproar if it had been Saltire waving Nationalists.........causing trouble instead.

I'm guessing you might have been referring to my post about what I saw when I went out Glasgow on Friday night. To be honest, I'm regretting saying anything because I've had nothing but comdemnation from Yes voters on my Facebook thanks to a similar post I made there. All of a sudden I'm the bad guy, because I made the observation that if you have ever been anywhere near Glasgow Green on the day of an Orange walk, you would see very similar scenes as I did in Glasgow in the George Square area on Friday. I wasn't defending the people who were acting like idiots, I was trying to defend the rest of the City who were ignoring the rabble and getting on with things.

I saw two large-ish groups winding each other up with songs, chants and flags, seperated by a good police corden. I saw amongst the Yes crowd lots of drunk people rolling about on the ground for no reason (seemed like they were having a laugh though) - I'm sure there was also drunks on the unionist side (going by the youtube videos, they all looked especially drunk and intimidating). On Buchanan street I saw crowds milling around, mixed groups of unionists and nationalist heading off from the trouble. A fair bit of shouting amongst them, and at one point, a little scrap between two very shouty and very willing participants from either side, swiftly broken up by the people around them. By the time I had walked on from Nelson Mandela Place to Bath street, it was comepletey clear and there wasn't a trace of it anymore.

My point was it was a very localised, disgusting display. As far as disgusting displays go, it probably wasn't the worst one Glasgow has ever seen, although emotions were no doubt running alot higher. In June, I believe there was something like 20 arrests at Glasgow Green during the Orange march, and Friday night only saw 6, but the problem is it received massive coverage because of the historic nature of the day, and it now serves as one of our biggest embarassments as a Glaswegian, and probably a nation. But to me as a local, it was noteworthy only because it was happening in the centre city, rather than Bridgeton. If you walked a block away from the trouble in any direction, you were back in good old normal Glasgow again, with busy pubs and good chat. Reports on the "we are the 45" on Saturday morning included riots through the whole city, newspaper offices being set alight, and mass stabbings.

That must have been in some other Glasgow.

ETA - I'll concede now, that despite the Herald Scotland and police saying that the fire near their offices wasn't related, they are now saying this monring they are investigating CCTV that shows two men possibly starting the fire, and so it may turn out to be so. However none of this info was available to anyone at the weekend, so it was still just people spreading unfounded rumours and gossip at the time, which I object to.

Edited by Wrathalanche on Monday 22 September 11:19

[McWigglebum4th]

Rovinghawk said:

xjsdriver said:

I support the Scots in their wish to become independent

The majority don't want to be independent.

If you want proof of this, there was a recent vote......................

While your logic is sound nationalists regard NO voters as sub human scum who aren't scottish. To their tiny minds the majority of scottish people want FRREWEDDDDDDDDDOOOMMMMMMmmmmmm

My current intention is to make as much money as i can while living in Scotland and then i shall fk off to Hertfordshire for retirement as i am sick and tired of the "true scots" as they appear to be complete idiots

I can say this as i am not a "true scot" as i was born in scotland and have lived my entire life in scotland but because of my choice to vote for what i see as being best for scotland i am not a "true scot"

[eharding]

xjsdriver said:

As you were matey!!!

Odd, isn't it - the "as you were" punchline was the hallmark of the recently departed "pcvdriver", late of this parish.

Do you two know each other?

[anonymous-user]

eharding said:

Odd, isn't it - the "as you were" punchline was the hallmark of the recently departed "pcvdriver", late of this parish.

Do you two know each other?

Aah, that's who I was thinking of in my post above, the Yessir from NE England.

Apologies, XJSdriver, my mistake.

[Rovinghawk]

McWigglebum4th said:

To their tiny minds the majority of scottish people want FRREWEDDDDDDDDDOOOMMMMMMmmmmmm

I can accept that many would prefer to run their own affairs.

I believe, though, that the majority believe the price of this 'freedom' to be too high for the benefit achieved.

[DMN]

Is "pcdriver" and "xjdriver" also "xj flyer"? The one who got banned from several threads for spamming post after post with illiterate crap?

[Oakey]

DMN said:

Is "pcdriver" and "xjdriver" also "xj flyer"? The one who got banned from several threads for spamming post after post with illiterate crap?

Don't think so, XJ Flyer is the lunatic who appears to desperately want to see the world end in nuclear Armageddon

[Zod]

DMN said:

Is "pcdriver" and "xjdriver" also "xj flyer"? The one who got banned from several threads for spamming post after post with illiterate crap?

You should see his latest spewing of gibberish in the "Left Wingers are getting a bit scared" thread. Lots of words, correctly spelt, but no meaning.

[Edinburger]

Moonhawk said:

Troubleatmill said:

A bit harsh. The man's says he's a No voter too.

EFA.

Given his posts before the vote - and a couple since........i'm starting to have my doubts. His arguments before the vote were very much "Yes" inclined - and now he has started re-posting "the 45%" conspiracy theories......

Ha ha and why would you doubt me?

I apopreciate the video is poor quality but I'd heard about those allegations on Sky News and that was the first YouTube video to back up those claims.

Don't doubt the fact I voted No. No idea why you would or why it would even matter now.

[Moonhawk]

Edinburger said:

I apopreciate the video is poor quality but I'd heard about those allegations on Sky News and that was the first YouTube video to back up those claims.

Those videos (the first two at least) were posted on this thread many pages before you posted that 'compilation' vid up - page 171 to be exact.

You haven't said whether you think they show vote fraud - you just posted the link? I'm not convinced - what are your thoughts though?

Edited by Moonhawk on Monday 22 September 12:05

[McWigglebum4th]

One sticky point about these conspiracy videos

They were all taken in Dundee

remind me which way Dundee voted

[alock]

xjsdriver said:

You mean the majority of voters over 65, who were constantly misinformed/ lied to by the BBC and the printed press.

xjsdriver said:

I'm basing my opinion on demographics reports.......printed in many newspapers and many online sources.

Can I clarify whether you think the printed media is a reliable source or not?

[Moonhawk]

McWigglebum4th said:

One sticky point about these conspiracy videos

They were all taken in Dundee

remind me which way Dundee voted

Ah yes - but the high Yes voting areas also had low turnout......which obviously indicates vote rigging.......as opposed to the simpler explanation that those areas contain a high proportion of lazy f#ckers who couldn't be arsed to vote.

[Edinburger]

Moonhawk said:

Edinburger said:

I apopreciate the video is poor quality but I'd heard about those allegations on Sky News and that was the first YouTube video to back up those claims.

Those videos (the first two at least) were posted on this thread many pages before you posted that 'compilation' vid up.

Do you think they show vote fraud?

I think it's possible to show/create anything you choose. I don't think there was any fraud though. I don't see how it's possible. I've counted votes before and the process was heavily supervised. It's a non-story to me. Not sure why Sky thought otherwise.

[Moonhawk]

alock said:

Can I clarify whether you think the printed media is a reliable source or not?

Also - why are online sources more reliable than printed sources or broadcast media. The latter are accountable for what they put out due to the presence of OFCOM - whereas anyone can post any old s#ite on 'the internets'......just look at "the 45%" Facebook page.

[Moonhawk]

Edinburger said:

I think it's possible to show/create anything you choose. I don't think there was any fraud though. I don't see how it's possible. I've counted votes before and the process was heavily supervised. It's a non-story to me. Not sure why Sky thought otherwise.

Fair enough........it may have been worth stating that opinion when you posted the link though......just saying

I too can't see how vote fraud was widespread - if present at all. The cross checking and supervision is far too stringent. It certainly couldn't account for almost 400,000 votes (or far more if the Yessers believed they should have won by a large margin).

Can any Yes voter who does think vote fraud did occur - tell us just how many votes they think Yes should have won by had this supposed 'fraud' not taken place?

Edited by Moonhawk on Monday 22 September 12:26

[Ian974]

Part of me wishes they'd fire through a recount just to keep everyone quiet.
I just don't understand the single issue which independence is the answer for?
National dept needs to be fixed for the whole of the UK
NHS funding issues need to be fixed for the whole of the UK
Poverty/ food bank issues need to be sorted out across the whole of the UK
If part of the taxes go one way or the other to/from ruk/Scotland, why does it really matter, and what difference is there between income from one city helping another?
To use what actually seems a very relevant quote: The little, stupid differences are nothing next to the big, stupid similarities

[Moonhawk]

Ian974 said:

Part of me wishes they'd fire through a recount just to keep everyone quiet.

It wouldn't do any good - in the nationalists mind there will simply have been too great an opportunity for the votes to have been tampered with. They wouldn't accept the result of a recount any more than they accepted the result of the original.

They are crying for a re-vote:

1. In the hope that all of their bullying insults against No voters - calling them traitors, cowards, anti-scottish will have had the effect of guilt tripping some voters into not voting No again (or even switching sides just to keep the peace)

2. That any complacent Yes supporters who didn't cast their vote first time round (low turnout in Dundee, Glasgow etc) would be spurred into action by the knowledge that if they didn't - the result may be another No win.

[toppstuff]

Ian974 said:

Part of me wishes they'd fire through a recount just to keep everyone quiet.
I just don't understand the single issue which independence is the answer for?
National dept needs to be fixed for the whole of the UK
NHS funding issues need to be fixed for the whole of the UK
Poverty/ food bank issues need to be sorted out across the whole of the UK
If part of the taxes go one way or the other to/from ruk/Scotland, why does it really matter, and what difference is there between income from one city helping another?
To use what actually seems a very relevant quote: The little, stupid differences are nothing next to the big, stupid similarities

That is actually quite say to answer IMO.

Nationalists believe they are better than the rest of us. They dress it up in different language ( " a fairer society" for example ) but underneath it all is a belief that they are better people than the rest of us - they think they are smarter. They think they care more. They think they are superior.

[A.J.M]

It's funny how most of the cheating and vote riggings happened in yes areas...

I was working at a station in North Lanarkshire, it went 51% yes, 49% no.

I had 809 names on my list to mark off when people arrived. 616 people turned up to vote. 2 of the names on my list were pointed out to have died, so were unlikely to turn up to vote...

So, i got about 76% turn out at my station. That leaves 23ish% of people who didn't turn up but were eligible, bar the dead ones.

So, democracy happened, a vote was held, info was out and widely available to get to everyone.

The result was the result and is the democratic will of the Scottish people.

If you don't like it. Tough, fking, st. It is the will of the people, more voted to remain than to leave.