Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 6
Discussion
McWigglebum4th said:
eztiger said:
Edinburger said:
Why do you think there is a "shambles of a government in power in Scotland"
They have just torn the country in two. And are continuing to push down that path of division.If that's what gets your vote, so be it. It doesn't get mine.
They are acting like a 3rd world tinpot dictator line
arp1 said:
IF it goes ahead... And the promises promises to the no voters should not be based on the 'England thing' being passed as well as that was not part of the 'deal'... And the 'deal' was made as the yes side of the 'polls' were rising and rising so the no side had to make some sort of deal I entice no voters to stay no voters. But if they renage then the surge of Scottish nationalism as opposed to Britnat will rise again (and be a nation again dadadadada.....)
Somewhat self selecting, but it's the only data I have.All the no voters I know don't give two hoots about further powers. They voted No for many other far more sensible reasons.
So if you're pinning your hopes on a bunch of no voters being upset if powers don't appear in the way you like or in the time frame you have arbitrarily set - you might be disappointed. You may even find (as hinted on this thread) they'd be quite happy to scrap holyrood full stop. Careful what you wish for if you start opening that box...
I still don't understand how a majority SNP government in Scotland could make Scotland independent?
Can they just tell Westminster "This is happening and do it?" and the whole referendum was in fact pointless?
More than 55% of the population wanted to remain in the Union and in some places it was a much higher split.
The SNP and more specifically Salmond are showing exactly the type of politicians they are and always have been.
Can they just tell Westminster "This is happening and do it?" and the whole referendum was in fact pointless?
More than 55% of the population wanted to remain in the Union and in some places it was a much higher split.
The SNP and more specifically Salmond are showing exactly the type of politicians they are and always have been.
Edinburger said:
Why do you think there is a "shambles of a government in power in Scotland"
What you mean the Government who has effectively split the country in two, stuck a massive wedge between us and the rest of the UK and damaged our economy in the process? The Government that continues to drive a wedge between us even after defeat.The campaign was shameful, as is their running of our country.
This is just the tip of the iceberg. The 100 broken manifesto promises. The ill throughout minimal alcohol pricing and a9 speed cameras, complete failure to consult the populace.
The "free" prescriptions, care for the elderly and university which only effects the rich.
Their absolutely failure to deal with poverty in Scotland is appalling. More so when they are very deliberately using it as a political tool, they aren’t stupid they know the blame will fall on the UK government.
How can anyone say they have delivered anything but hollow policies? Nationalism is UGLY, this government has proved this wholesale.
Edinburger said:
McWigglebum4th said:
eztiger said:
Edinburger said:
Why do you think there is a "shambles of a government in power in Scotland"
They have just torn the country in two. And are continuing to push down that path of division.If that's what gets your vote, so be it. It doesn't get mine.
They are acting like a 3rd world tinpot dictator line
Salmond and that t
t sillarsa friend has just told me that some of the Facebook groups are getting really threatening - I don't go near Faceache as it bores the life out of me
anyway, apparently some are saying Scotland will get independence either by the ballot box or the bullet!!
this harks back to over twenty years ago when the Tartan Army burnt down holiday homes owned by the English
I fear its only going to get worse with further divisions within Scotland - a rift has occurred which I feel its now impossible to heal - a divided and hateful 'nation'
anyway, apparently some are saying Scotland will get independence either by the ballot box or the bullet!!
this harks back to over twenty years ago when the Tartan Army burnt down holiday homes owned by the English
I fear its only going to get worse with further divisions within Scotland - a rift has occurred which I feel its now impossible to heal - a divided and hateful 'nation'
arp1 said:
Ps, precious oil... Once it's gone in the next 50-100+ years, THEN independence will happen as rUK wouldn't need Scotland anymore...
Oh please - that argument has been trotted out so many times it's just not funny. The union existed for 250+ years before oil was commercially exploited on a wide scale.This claim that rUK only remain in the union to exploit Scotland's mineral wealth is just yet another example of nationalist conspiracy theory/victim mentality.
MintyChris said:
What you mean the Government who has effectively split the country in two, stuck a massive wedge between us and the rest of the UK and damaged our economy in the process? The Government that continues to drive a wedge between us even after defeat.
The campaign was shameful, as is their running of our country.
This is just the tip of the iceberg. The 100 broken manifesto promises. The ill throughout minimal alcohol pricing and a9 speed cameras, complete failure to consult the populace.
The "free" prescriptions, care for the elderly and university which only effects the rich.
Their absolutely failure to deal with poverty in Scotland is appalling. More so when they are very deliberately using it as a political tool, they aren’t stupid they know the blame will fall on the UK government.
How can anyone say they have delivered anything but hollow policies? Nationalism is UGLY, this government has proved this wholesale.
Odd points. But re. what have the delivered, how about 84 of their 94 headline manifesto commitments as a minority goivernment in 2007-11 (see http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-polit... or see what you recognise from the 2011 manifesto (http://votesnp.com/campaigns/SNP_Manifesto_2011_lowRes.pdf).The campaign was shameful, as is their running of our country.
This is just the tip of the iceberg. The 100 broken manifesto promises. The ill throughout minimal alcohol pricing and a9 speed cameras, complete failure to consult the populace.
The "free" prescriptions, care for the elderly and university which only effects the rich.
Their absolutely failure to deal with poverty in Scotland is appalling. More so when they are very deliberately using it as a political tool, they aren’t stupid they know the blame will fall on the UK government.
How can anyone say they have delivered anything but hollow policies? Nationalism is UGLY, this government has proved this wholesale.
Moonhawk said:
arp1 said:
Ps, precious oil... Once it's gone in the next 50-100+ years, THEN independence will happen as rUK wouldn't need Scotland anymore...
Oh please - that argument has been trotted out so many times it's just not funny. The union existed for 250+ years before oil was commercially exploited on a wide scale.This claim that rUK only remain in the union to exploit Scotland's mineral wealth is just yet another example of nationalist conspiracy theory/victim mentality.
http://dailycurrant.com/2014/09/20/worlds-largest-...
PugwasHDJ80 said:
Whatever else happens, and whatever your thoughts on the subject the politicians made promises to the Scottish people which they MUST keep. If they shouldn't made those promises then we need to vote them all out- but as a matter of trust, they need to deliver on what they promised.
They then need to fix devolution around the rest of the country, but delaying Scottish matters is not acceptable.
Scotland voted to stay and its up to all of us to ensure they feel part of the UK again, and that the damage done isn't irreparable.
Have you not worked out we live in a democracy. CamMilCleg can promise what they like but to be delivered then a bill must pass Westminster.They then need to fix devolution around the rest of the country, but delaying Scottish matters is not acceptable.
Scotland voted to stay and its up to all of us to ensure they feel part of the UK again, and that the damage done isn't irreparable.
I disagree both with any further devolution to Scotland with out resolving the English issue and enshrining the Barnett formula in law. I will therefore be voting for any one who will defends my interest.
CamMilCleg made a promise the English did not.
grand cherokee said:
a friend has just told me that some of the Facebook groups are getting really threatening - I don't go near Faceache as it bores the life out of me
anyway, apparently some are saying Scotland will get independence either by the ballot box or the bullet!!
this harks back to over twenty years ago when the Tartan Army burnt down holiday homes owned by the English
I fear its only going to get worse with further divisions within Scotland - a rift has occurred which I feel its now impossible to heal - a divided and hateful 'nation'
And on that outrageous note, I'm logging off. Dear oh dear!anyway, apparently some are saying Scotland will get independence either by the ballot box or the bullet!!
this harks back to over twenty years ago when the Tartan Army burnt down holiday homes owned by the English
I fear its only going to get worse with further divisions within Scotland - a rift has occurred which I feel its now impossible to heal - a divided and hateful 'nation'
arp1 said:
Ps, precious oil... Once it's gone in the next 50-100+ years, THEN independence will happen as rUK wouldn't need Scotland anymore...
Yes as the UK's £600 Billion pound tax revenue last year would have been impacted by the loss of £6 billion from the oil.Do you not wonder why the UK didnt bother to rubbish the claims from the yes campaign about a geographical share of the oil? They didnt really care...
There does seem to be a line (particularly from the blue-faced goons) that 'Yes' meant full independence and 'No' meant greater devolution/powers...and consequently any issue in delivering these powers would be a big issue for the 'No' voters. 'Duped' seems to be the word of choice at the moment.
I think a lot of the 'No' voters would be more than happy to see LESS powers given and LESS devolution. Apart from burdening us with extra cost and giving the opportunity to second-rate politicians to hear the sound of their own voices, what has that over-spent carbuncle at the foot of the Mile actually achieved? I won't lose any sleep if no more powers are ever granted...but I accept that for the sake of the blue-faced goons something will have to happen. Sadly.
I think a lot of the 'No' voters would be more than happy to see LESS powers given and LESS devolution. Apart from burdening us with extra cost and giving the opportunity to second-rate politicians to hear the sound of their own voices, what has that over-spent carbuncle at the foot of the Mile actually achieved? I won't lose any sleep if no more powers are ever granted...but I accept that for the sake of the blue-faced goons something will have to happen. Sadly.
eztiger said:
All the no voters I know don't give two hoots about further powers. They voted No for many other far more sensible reasons.
The polls simply don't support the assertion that the final vote was swung by these promises of new powers. Looking at all of the results - the promises actually appeared to make very little if any impact on the polls. Yes support had pretty much plateaued before the promises were made - and no support didn't increase significantly after the promises (in fact it decreased slightly).The average of 4 polls immediately leading up to the Yougov poll on the 5th (the one that prompted the promises to be made) had No ahead by around 4.5%.
The average of all polls after the promises were made had no ahead by 4%.
There are a number of reasons to be unhappy with the current SNP administration. Achieving a majority in a parliament designed for coalition governance was always going to test them.
They fell badly at the first hurdle by appointing an SNP member as Presiding Officer. A controversial move that was only possible due to their majority.
The corroboration debacle, child guardian legislation, misleading the parliament over Europe advice. They haven't covered themselves with glory.
They fell badly at the first hurdle by appointing an SNP member as Presiding Officer. A controversial move that was only possible due to their majority.
The corroboration debacle, child guardian legislation, misleading the parliament over Europe advice. They haven't covered themselves with glory.
Edinburger said:
grand cherokee said:
a friend has just told me that some of the Facebook groups are getting really threatening - I don't go near Faceache as it bores the life out of me
anyway, apparently some are saying Scotland will get independence either by the ballot box or the bullet!!
this harks back to over twenty years ago when the Tartan Army burnt down holiday homes owned by the English
I fear its only going to get worse with further divisions within Scotland - a rift has occurred which I feel its now impossible to heal - a divided and hateful 'nation'
And on that outrageous note, I'm logging off. Dear oh dear!anyway, apparently some are saying Scotland will get independence either by the ballot box or the bullet!!
this harks back to over twenty years ago when the Tartan Army burnt down holiday homes owned by the English
I fear its only going to get worse with further divisions within Scotland - a rift has occurred which I feel its now impossible to heal - a divided and hateful 'nation'
I am confident of winning that £100 that you wagered against their being a terrorist event to free scotland
I would prefer YOU to win but i am afraid i will win
Edinburger said:
grand cherokee said:
a friend has just told me that some of the Facebook groups are getting really threatening - I don't go near Faceache as it bores the life out of me
anyway, apparently some are saying Scotland will get independence either by the ballot box or the bullet!!
this harks back to over twenty years ago when the Tartan Army burnt down holiday homes owned by the English
I fear its only going to get worse with further divisions within Scotland - a rift has occurred which I feel its now impossible to heal - a divided and hateful 'nation'
And on that outrageous note, I'm logging off. Dear oh dear!anyway, apparently some are saying Scotland will get independence either by the ballot box or the bullet!!
this harks back to over twenty years ago when the Tartan Army burnt down holiday homes owned by the English
I fear its only going to get worse with further divisions within Scotland - a rift has occurred which I feel its now impossible to heal - a divided and hateful 'nation'
but you have argued in a very logical manner which I respect - but its up to the likes of you to do something to stop these 'threats'
your a Scot so the ball is truly in your court - sorry
Mrr T said:
PugwasHDJ80 said:
Whatever else happens, and whatever your thoughts on the subject the politicians made promises to the Scottish people which they MUST keep. If they shouldn't made those promises then we need to vote them all out- but as a matter of trust, they need to deliver on what they promised.
They then need to fix devolution around the rest of the country, but delaying Scottish matters is not acceptable.
Scotland voted to stay and its up to all of us to ensure they feel part of the UK again, and that the damage done isn't irreparable.
Have you not worked out we live in a democracy. CamMilCleg can promise what they like but to be delivered then a bill must pass Westminster.They then need to fix devolution around the rest of the country, but delaying Scottish matters is not acceptable.
Scotland voted to stay and its up to all of us to ensure they feel part of the UK again, and that the damage done isn't irreparable.
I disagree both with any further devolution to Scotland with out resolving the English issue and enshrining the Barnett formula in law. I will therefore be voting for any one who will defends my interest.
CamMilCleg made a promise the English did not.
If that parliament makes promises in our name then yep we are bound by them no matter how much you dislike them.
I agree with yo feelings entirely, but have a stronger feeling that politicians should honor their obligations, and that in this case failing to honour these obligations would be disastrous.
McWigglebum4th said:
Edinburger said:
grand cherokee said:
a friend has just told me that some of the Facebook groups are getting really threatening - I don't go near Faceache as it bores the life out of me
anyway, apparently some are saying Scotland will get independence either by the ballot box or the bullet!!
this harks back to over twenty years ago when the Tartan Army burnt down holiday homes owned by the English
I fear its only going to get worse with further divisions within Scotland - a rift has occurred which I feel its now impossible to heal - a divided and hateful 'nation'
And on that outrageous note, I'm logging off. Dear oh dear!anyway, apparently some are saying Scotland will get independence either by the ballot box or the bullet!!
this harks back to over twenty years ago when the Tartan Army burnt down holiday homes owned by the English
I fear its only going to get worse with further divisions within Scotland - a rift has occurred which I feel its now impossible to heal - a divided and hateful 'nation'
I am confident of winning that £100 that you wagered against their being a terrorist event to free scotland
I would prefer YOU to win but i am afraid i will win
I can't remember the exact details but the Duke of Atholl is allowed to raise and maintain a private army - my former Ghillie was a piper in the Atholl Highlanders
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