Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 6
Discussion
Ironic that the supposedly massive new support for the SNP may indeed translate into robbing Labour of some seats in the next GE, making the way easier for the dreaded Tory party to achieve another GE victory...
You'd think if you really didn't like the Tory's then you'd vote for the party most likely to unseat them in power (hint - this is not the SNP). Short-termism is a nationalist trait, so not sure why I'm surprised..
arp1 said:
So the last year had been claim and counter claim, the Scottish government faced repeated claims that it was talking out its erse, but what happens? Looks like the claims they were making and we were being told were lies, were in fact TRUE. So we were in actual fact being LIED to by westminister and unionist parties. If you are happy bring lied to for political gain that's fine, but I'm not. I'm tired of being lied to. I'm tired of hearing that Scotland cannot do this and shouldn't go that, just because mainstream media and westminister say we cannot, even when their own claims and promises don't hold water. There are a great number of disillusioned individuals in this great and ancient country (which essentially was voted back into continuing to be a region as opposed to a country again but that's by the by) that wanted change, realises change is needed and that the way things are, change all never happen as there are too many self serving mp's who put personal ambition and wealth ahead of the people they serve. Yes we have a Scottish parliament, but with very little powers, and any powers we do have don't go far enough. You may say we have security within the uk, however there are many more cuts and austerity measures coming our way, and yet another war we will have to pay for. Like a picture doing the rounds say, we cannot afford to feed the poor but can afford to go to war. Funny that. People have a very short memory and forget what is coming our way before they ticked their respective box on the 18th... We will still have to pay for the high speed rail link which will benefit Scotland nil, pay for London projects such as sewer replacements and the like. All our money siphoned off to be spent else where, just like that, and none of it benefiting us.
And just look at the shambles we have in westminister ATM, politicians infighting and not agreeing on many things, funny that. And instead of rapid talks and developments, all we are hearing about is England this and England that. I'm sorry, but this was a Scottish referendum regarding what happens to Scotland, so let's get that sorted first, as it seems heels are being dragged rather slowly.
I'm tired of the injustice we have had to hear about in the last week when we were told one thing in all the official better together literature and now it seems a lot of it was made up, absolutely sickens me. Is it any wonder that the Snp have the 3rd highest membership in the country now? And with the Scottish greens and ssp gaining members hand over fist also, rest assured that come the next general election, there will be some shocks in sure. It has been proven that labour, Tory and lib dems do not speak for Scotland. They tow the party line and as it has always been, Scotland comes last in their order of priorities. I'm not saying the Snp are perfect, far from is as they are politicians and all politicians are of the same ilk, some more worse than others mind, but at least they stick up for Scotland, give us a voice! Would we have such as strong a voice if labour/Tory/lib dems were in charge? I don't think so. All the business of promoting Scotland wouldn't have happened under those governments, and that would have been a right shame. We have a rich history and it deserves to be celebrated. Would the bannockburn celebrations have happened? Homecoming Scotland? All the festivals etc? Probably not.
There is a new sense of being in Scotland, and a clear divide. That divide is a shame, but divides can move and come together, and for the country's sake, I hope it does, but pulls Scotland's way instead of the UK as it has been already demonstrated that we mean very little to the uk as a whole, other than for the use of our resources for the south east's gain.
Stay strong and be Scottish!
And the point you are making is?And just look at the shambles we have in westminister ATM, politicians infighting and not agreeing on many things, funny that. And instead of rapid talks and developments, all we are hearing about is England this and England that. I'm sorry, but this was a Scottish referendum regarding what happens to Scotland, so let's get that sorted first, as it seems heels are being dragged rather slowly.
I'm tired of the injustice we have had to hear about in the last week when we were told one thing in all the official better together literature and now it seems a lot of it was made up, absolutely sickens me. Is it any wonder that the Snp have the 3rd highest membership in the country now? And with the Scottish greens and ssp gaining members hand over fist also, rest assured that come the next general election, there will be some shocks in sure. It has been proven that labour, Tory and lib dems do not speak for Scotland. They tow the party line and as it has always been, Scotland comes last in their order of priorities. I'm not saying the Snp are perfect, far from is as they are politicians and all politicians are of the same ilk, some more worse than others mind, but at least they stick up for Scotland, give us a voice! Would we have such as strong a voice if labour/Tory/lib dems were in charge? I don't think so. All the business of promoting Scotland wouldn't have happened under those governments, and that would have been a right shame. We have a rich history and it deserves to be celebrated. Would the bannockburn celebrations have happened? Homecoming Scotland? All the festivals etc? Probably not.
There is a new sense of being in Scotland, and a clear divide. That divide is a shame, but divides can move and come together, and for the country's sake, I hope it does, but pulls Scotland's way instead of the UK as it has been already demonstrated that we mean very little to the uk as a whole, other than for the use of our resources for the south east's gain.
Stay strong and be Scottish!
Look, your side lost. Get over it. I know it's hard for you, but really you have to move on. Not enough people agreed with your point of view to ensure that your point of view carried the day. That is a fact. Accept it. You lost.
You can bleat and moan that people were wrong to vote the way they did, that's fine. But you still lost. That makes your side the losers. Losing means you don't get what you wanted. Sorry that you find that difficult to believe, but it is the truth. The truth is you lost. Are you getting it yet? You LOST.
Now, it's been a week since the poll, so its too early to say that Westminster lied about the extra powers. My feeling is that DC will deliver what he promised. Lets not dwell on who lied most in the run up to the vote because I suspect that by ANY rational analysis it would be seen that the principle liars were the SNP and the Yestapo,, but regardless of whether you accept that last point or not, the fact is that you lost.
Interestingly the ONLY side proven so far to have lied SINCE the referendum is the Yes side and the SNP. Alex said he would accept the sovereign will of the Scottish people. He also said that he would work to re-unite Scotland. Even Sturgeon said she would accept and move on........ and yet, that has not been the case now has it?
Veiled threats of UDI and bleating on about voters being conned is hardly acceptance of the result and the sovereign will of the Scottish people now is it? I don't see much effort going in to re-uniting Scotland and its people. So you may want to look a bit closer to home on the lying thing.
Now, one last point, the whole "sucking Scotlands resources thing"...... You need to go and read the numbers again because it is pretty clear that Scotland takes rather more than it contributes to the UK. Not that that is a problem per se, it's all one big happy family after all. I'd just hate for you to go away from this thread still cuddling the misconception that Scotland somehow subsidises the south east. It's actually the other way round. Did I mention that your side lost btw?
blindswelledrat said:
Sorry andymadmak, your post doesn't make it clear.
Are we saying that arp is a massive and dignified winner or are we saying that he is a terrible bad losing baby?
Sorry BSW. I am perhaps not as articulate as I would wish to be. My position can perhaps be summed up as follows:Are we saying that arp is a massive and dignified winner or are we saying that he is a terrible bad losing baby?
arp =
bp1 said:
Funk said:
Wombat3 said:
HenryJM said:
The problem is that half of Scotland doesn't bother voting for Holyrood so you have a government that is elected by a small fraction of the population setting the rules.
It would seem likely they may have woken up to that particular problem now. It will be quite clear to the 2M No voters that they risk having their country taken away from them if they can't be bothered to get out & vote.
ks to go away for good.The vote will essentially become anyone but the SNP for a lot of no voters imo.
, how UKIP will start picking up votes North of the Border..........Smoke me a kipper, skipper, I'll be back for breakfast...
...you read it here first...
arp1 said:
I'm tired of hearing that Scotland cannot do this and shouldn't go that...
So...if you felt you could fly by flapping your arms would be get tired of hearing 'you cannot do it'? And if you though it would be good idea to test it by jumping off the Forth Bridge, would you get tired of hearing 'you shouldn't do that'?Sometimes there are things you really cannot do (or at least cannot do without making it a complete and utter mess of things), and sometimes there are things you shouldn't do (by being quite simply a very bad idea).
You really should take the wise advise of 'cannot' and 'should not'.
arp1 said:
I'm tired of hearing that Scotland cannot do this and shouldn't go that, just because mainstream media and westminister say we cannot
Should 'Scotland' be able to do anything it wants? Should they be able indicate they'll take whatever they want, make demands on other countries, try and impose risk on a larger population and make threats when the country in question turns round and questions those demands or says "hand on a sec".......because that is what happened in the lead up to the referendum.
Nobody said Scotland couldn't make a go of independence - but what people were questioning was the demands, promises and assumption the yes campaign were putting forward to support that independence - questions that the SNP had no answer for except to accuse those people asking the questions of "bluff and bluster".
Do you think that was reasonable?
It's funny - several nats have been banging on about the lies and misinformation told by mainstream media and Westminster - yet I haven't seen anyone specify exactly what those supposed lies where.
Edited by Moonhawk on Thursday 25th September 17:27
arp1 said:
Nhs, oil, austerity measures etc
That's not a list of lies - its just a list of things that may or may not have been lied about (by both sides). I could equally say that the Yes campaign lied about these things.What exactly were the lies that were told by Westminster/mainstream media about each of those things.
Cobnapint said:
arp1 said:
Nhs, oil, austerity measures etc
And the lies were exactly what...?Maybe a list of SNP lies would be easier;
EU membership
Monetary Union
Sovereign will of the people
But of course we all know the lies Salmond told about those subjects as they were rammed down everybody's throats day in day out, for 2 bloody years!
Moonhawk said:
arp1 said:
Nhs, oil, austerity measures etc
That's not a list of lies - its just a list of things that may or may not have been lied about (by both sides). I could equally say that the Yes campaign lied about these things.What exactly were the lies that were told by Westminster/mainstream media about each of those things.
Jesus f
king Christ, the NHS is a devolved issue and Scotland gets its share of the 20 odd % of GDP that's spent on it - The NHS budget is £113BN FFS! There is no more bloody oil according to everybody on the planet EXCEPT anybody inclined to have voted YES
Austerity ARP1 ? you wouldn't know it if it kicked you in the teeth!
There is no "austerity". The bloody government is still overspending by £100Bn a year ARP you dimwit. The SG is overspending by about £12Bn (by its own bloody figures). Where do you think the money comes from?
Idiotic does not even begin to describe the mutterings of these Nationalist nutcases. Its almost impossible to conceive that anyone could be so ill-informed!
Edited by Wombat3 on Thursday 25th September 18:58
Wombat3 said:
There is no "austerity". The bloody government is still overspending by £100M a year ARP you dimwit. The SG is overspending by about £12Bn (by its own bloody figures). Where do you think the money comes from?
This.I'm fed up with talk of austerity being a bad thing. Living within your means, cutting your coat etc is a good thing. Both the SG and the UK are overspending massively every month and year keeping up the pretence that we can afford everything. Bottom line is we can't, so the sooner we start discussing which public services we don't really need or would be better privatised the better. Starting imo with the money pit that is the NHS, but that's another thread altogether.
Although clearly that's a load of rubbish and the answer to your question is oil. It always is. That and Tories bla bla.
simoid said:
Btw anybody noticed Transport Minister Keith Brown MSP or his words?
He's running for deputy to Sturgeon and has came across as sensible and level headed, not just for a nationalist, but generally.
He can't not be more level headed than some of the plebs on FB.He's running for deputy to Sturgeon and has came across as sensible and level headed, not just for a nationalist, but generally.
Deborah Colquhoun You couldn't call 10% a majority really
What the f
k would you call 400000 more votes then Deborah?technodup said:
Wombat3 said:
There is no "austerity". The bloody government is still overspending by £100Bn a year ARP you dimwit. The SG is overspending by about £12Bn (by its own bloody figures). Where do you think the money comes from?
This.I'm fed up with talk of austerity being a bad thing. Living within your means, cutting your coat etc is a good thing. Both the SG and the UK are overspending massively every month and year keeping up the pretence that we can afford everything. Bottom line is we can't, so the sooner we start discussing which public services we don't really need or would be better privatised the better. Starting imo with the money pit that is the NHS, but that's another thread altogether.
Although clearly that's a load of rubbish and the answer to your question is oil. It always is. That and Tories bla bla.
Edited by Wombat3 on Thursday 25th September 18:58
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