Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 6

[WinstonWolf]

fluffnik said:

Wombat3 said:

Big Rod said:

fluffnik said:

I accept the "considered will of the Scottish people", this does not mean I will not urge my fellow Scots to reconsider...

I was sure the phrase was "settled will of the Scottish people".

Settled to me means end of story.

Well spotted, this is just the Fluffy worm wriggling on the end of the hook.

The phrases used were either "Settled" or "Sovereign".

I used "settled" in error some time back, the phrase used by the court was "the considered will of the Scottish people".

No immutability is implied.

In Scotland sovereignty resides with the people, not the "Crown in Parliament", the sovereign people are entitled to change their mind at any time.

I would hope that they would change their mind on discovering that their previous conclusion was founded on a tissue of lies.

As an aside, I notice a UKIP donor wants England to dissolve the Union ans cast Wales and NI out too. Cool!

No, no they're not as you're bound by the Acts of Union signed by your forbears when they capitulated/accepted bribes...

[mattmurdock]

fluffnik said:

I used "settled" in error some time back, the phrase used by the court was "the considered will of the Scottish people".

No immutability is implied.

In Scotland sovereignty resides with the people, not the "Crown in Parliament", the sovereign people are entitled to change their mind at any time.

See Fluff, the crux of what you are saying there is that, in the event the "considered will of the Scottish people" changes, they are entitled to both claim AND surrender their sovereignty. So, should by some miracle a new referendum happen in which Scotland vote yes to independence, it would be entirely possible for a future government of Scotland to campaign on a manifesto of a referendum to rejoin the United Kingdom, and if such a referendum passed re-create the Union (assuming the United Kingdom is willing to enter such an arrangement again).

If that is indeed true, and you would be accepting of a re-creation of the Union if it was "the considered will of the Scottish people", then fair enough. I would suggest however, that is not the case, in which case you were simply lying about accepting the current referendum result.

If you wish to campaign for abolition of the UK, then you are entitled to. But to state you would accept the decision of the people, and then reject that decision when it did not go the way you personally wanted it to go, just shows you up as a hypocrite.

[A.J.M]

Democracy is only democracy when it goes your way.

[Moonhawk]

NomduJour said:

Your hallowed leader pledged that there would be no second referendum for "a generation".....

I did see an interview with him though where he back tracked on this. He stated what he meant by "generation" was a "political generation".

He knew he was going to lose so moved the goalposts.

[fluffnik]

NomduJour said:

Your hallowed leader pledged that there would be no second referendum for "a generation", even if he lost by one vote (rather than the decisive result delivered by the Scots people).

He has no power to stop people working to end the UK, only the end of the UK can stop that.

[fluffnik]

hornetrider said:

Presumably even in the case of a yes vote, they'll have another vote in another 5 years just to make sure. And every five years after that. A bit like the hokey cokey.

If there was interest in reforming the Union and the other bit was up for it, sure.

It might be moot if the Independence for England movement, which I fully support, gets its way.

[fluffnik]

mattmurdock said:

If you wish to campaign for abolition of the UK, then you are entitled to.

I have been all my adult life.

In that time there have been advances and setbacks, leading to some progress overall.

The current minor setback will not discourage me.

[Rovinghawk]

fluffnik said:

In that time there have been advances and setbacks, leading to some progress overall.

The current minor setback will not discourage me.

Let me summarise:

There was a vote.
Your side lost.
The deal which your side agreed to was that there will be no more on the subject for a long time.
It's over for many years.

[Wombat3]

fluffnik said:

mattmurdock said:

If you wish to campaign for abolition of the UK, then you are entitled to.

I have been all my adult life.

In that time there have been advances and setbacks, leading to some progress overall.

The current minor setback will not discourage me.

I wonder what your attitude would be in the event that the boot was on the other foot & re-unionists were seeking to end a bankrupt independent Scotland.

Methinks you would probably want them locked up.

I wonder also how much you happily take from the UK that you so despise? (aside from your freedom of speech, freedom of movement and the protection that your status as a UK citizen gives you).

You are certainly not a democrat are you?

[andymadmak]

Wombat3 said:

I wonder what your attitude would be in the event that the boot was on the other foot & re-unionists were seeking to end a bankrupt independent Scotland.

Methinks you would probably want them locked up.

I wonder also how much you happily take from the UK that you so despise? (aside from your freedom of speech, freedom of movement and the protection that your status as a UK citizen gives you).

You are certainly not a democrat are you?

Democracy? people like Fluffy don't believe in that.

Can you imagine any of these 45% ers playing a sport of any kind......?

Goal! .. No we passed a new rule that says the ball must have been over the line for at least 5 seconds. ..........

Out! .. No we passed a rule that says that a (Scottish) player is allowed 3 shots per rally that can go anywhere he/she wants it to

Try! ... No we passed a rule that says that if we score, we don't have to cross the line, only get close to it, but for you to score you have to get at least 3 yards past the line and hold it there with the little finger of your left hand for 30 seconds...

Edited by andymadmak on Friday 26th September 16:44

[kowalski655]

A.J.M said:

Democracy is only democracy when it goes your way.

For the Yessers,this is"bad democracy", a bit like the"bad AIDS"

[andymadmak]

I wonder if Fluffy et al have been down to their bookies yet:

Fluffy (for it is he) : Good day Master Bookmaker, I have come to collect my winnings

Bookie: Certainly sir, can I have your betting slip please?

Fluffy: Here you are... dosh me up wee man, I feel like celebrating tonight!

Bookie: Erm, but sir, this is a bet on YES winning.

Fluffy: Correct. Come now my good man, cross my palm with silver tootie sweetie, I have drams to purchase

Bookie: But, the YES side lost sir. We are only paying out for NO.

Fluffy: Lost? Lost you say? How short sighted of you. Yes did not lose, no no no. Yes won, it's just that people have not had enough time to realise it.

Bookie: No, Yes lost, It got over 400,000 fewer votes. That means it lost. I am sorry, we cannot pay out against your betting slip.

Fluffy: OK, so perhaps I am claiming my winnings a little early, but it's my right, as a Scotsman and a visionary, not to mention an enemy of hypocrisy, to claim my winnings at this time. After all, I need the funds to finance the campaign I am waging to prove that everyone else is wrong.

Bookie: I am sorry sir

Fluffy: You're English aren't you young man. That's why you're lying to me!

Bookie: Actually I am from Dundee. I'msstill wondering where the extra 6000 people in my age group came from! I didn't see them in school.....

Fluffy: You WILL pay me!!!

Bookie: Wanna bet on that?

[Wombat3]

kowalski655 said:

A.J.M said:

Democracy is only democracy when it goes your way.

For the Yessers,this is"bad democracy", a bit like the"bad AIDS"

Here's the test for Fluff twit,

lets suppose, for a second, that it was in his power to either hold another vote and try and work to convince people to achieve a democratic vote for independence....

OR

he had the power to be a complete selfish and just declare independence now.

Somehow I think he'd choose to be a .

He's many things, but a democrat is not one of them.

[Rollin]

Wombat3 said:

kowalski655 said:

A.J.M said:

Democracy is only democracy when it goes your way.

For the Yessers,this is"bad democracy", a bit like the"bad AIDS"

Here's the test for Fluff twit,

lets suppose, for a second, that it was in his power to either hold another vote and try and work to convince people to achieve a democratic vote for independence....

OR

he had the power to be a complete selfish and just declare independence now.

Somehow I think he'd choose to be a .

He's many things, but a democrat is not one of them.

He's a tiny minority and doesn't represent others who voted yes.

All the fanatics like him have rushed to join the SNP.....and it's not many.

[NoNeed]

NomduJour said:

You've had your referendum, you lost.

Another one isn't on the cards - as per the Edinburgh Agreement, a "decisive expression of the views of people in Scotland and a result that everyone will respect". Your hallowed leader pledged that there would be no second referendum for "a generation", even if he lost by one vote (rather than the decisive result delivered by the Scots people).

How many times did he use the phrase "once in a lifetime" during the campaign.


He also said he would fight for "team Scotland" after the referendum no matter what the result and heal any division.


As I see it he has already gone back on his word and I have written to Cameron to urge that he does too. The quicker we abolish holyrood and the barnet formula the better. then we can start building a fairer UK.

[HarryW]

Bored now, move on and get over it.

[simoid]

fluffnik said:

I have been all my adult life.

In that time there have been advances and setbacks, leading to some progress overall.

The current minor setback will not discourage me.

Don't you care about the damage you're doing to Scotland?

Probably not, eh. As long as there's a tiny chance of you and the rest of your minority getting what you want, you'll continue to try to split the country up.

Disgusting, frankly.

[Troubleatmill]

fluffnik said:

I used "settled" in error some time back, the phrase used by the court was "the considered will of the Scottish people".

No immutability is implied.

In Scotland sovereignty resides with the people, not the "Crown in Parliament", the sovereign people are entitled to change their mind at any time.

I would hope that they would change their mind on discovering that their previous conclusion was founded on a tissue of lies.

Billy billy bullst.

Look... Just google ALEX SALMOND SETTLED WILL OF THE SCOTTISH PEOPLE.

Alex used it countless times and so did you. It was not done in error.
It suited you to use it as a rallying call.

You lost - The matter is settled. At least have some dignity about it.

Edited by Troubleatmill on Friday 26th September 19:06

[///ajd]

NoNeed said:

As I see it he has already gone back on his word and I have written to Cameron to urge that he does too. The quicker we abolish holyrood and the barnet formula the better. then we can start building a fairer UK.

Absolutely.

Free uni has to end, or at least Scotland should raise its own additional tax to pay for it.

[pavka007]

andymadmak said:

I wonder if Fluffy et al have been down to their bookies yet:

Fluffy (for it is he) : Good day Master Bookmaker, I have come to collect my winnings

Bookie: Certainly sir, can I have your betting slip please?

Fluffy: Here you are... dosh me up wee man, I feel like celebrating tonight!

Bookie: Erm, but sir, this is a bet on YES winning.

Fluffy: Correct. Come now my good man, cross my palm with silver tootie sweetie, I have drams to purchase

Bookie: But, the YES side lost sir. We are only paying out for NO.

Fluffy: Lost? Lost you say? How short sighted of you. Yes did not lose, no no no. Yes won, it's just that people have not had enough time to realise it.

Bookie: No, Yes lost, It got over 400,000 fewer votes. That means it lost. I am sorry, we cannot pay out against your betting slip.

Fluffy: OK, so perhaps I am claiming my winnings a little early, but it's my right, as a Scotsman and a visionary, not to mention an enemy of hypocrisy, to claim my winnings at this time. After all, I need the funds to finance the campaign I am waging to prove that everyone else is wrong.

Bookie: I am sorry sir

Fluffy: You're English aren't you young man. That's why you're lying to me!

Bookie: Actually I am from Dundee. I'msstill wondering where the extra 6000 people in my age group came from! I didn't see them in school.....

Fluffy: You WILL pay me!!!

Bookie: Wanna bet on that?

You my friend are the winner