Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 6

[simoid]

Strocky said:

The NHS is devolved, the block grant isn't but I assume you knew that

You know the SNP chooses how much money the Scottish NHS can spend, right?

[Strocky]

simoid said:

You know the SNP chooses how much money the Scottish NHS can spend, right?

And who sets the amount of overall budget, you know the stuff that pays for everything else?

[simoid]

Strocky said:

No I don't agree, I was correcting your assumption that it's the English and not Westminster the SNP have a "problem" with

I'd rather see the stat that over 50% of those in poverty in the UK actually work for a living reduced to fk all, however that would mean the current government scrapping zero hour contracts (as well as not using them thereselves), ensuring a living wage, holding the banks to account and going for their pals and their corporations for tax avoidance rather than demonising those on benefits (and privatising the system to a for profit company)

Edited by Strocky on Monday 1st December 11:33

Ah yes, poverty. Do you mean relative poverty? Which means that if one person gets really rich, then everyone else becomes relatively poor?

What's wrong with zero hour contracts? They are an important tool for businesses who have variable workloads, and for thousands of Scots who would like to have variable workloads. Banning them just makes us a less flexible, less competitive economy.

You can't go after someone for tax avoidance, either. You're really not very good at this.

[simoid]

Strocky said:

simoid said:

You know the SNP chooses how much money the Scottish NHS can spend, right?

And who sets the amount of overall budget, you know the stuff that pays for everything else?

So we're agreed that the SNP Scottish government sets the NHS budget.

I assume we also agree that the SNP gets a chunk of money to spend from the UK exchequer.

And, as I showed earlier, billions more is spent in and for Scotland than is taxed.

So, basically, we've got the perfect life. We spend what we want, and don't have to worry about raising taxes.

Just like Scottish people voted for: do you want to be an independent country? "No."

[McWigglebum4th]

Strocky said:

McWigglebum4th said:

Do you think the NHS would be better in sotland if we stopped the english from changing it

Would it be better if Holyrood was running it?

The NHS is devolved, the block grant isn't but I assume you knew that

No one BUT the SNP dictate how much money is spent on the NHS

I earn over double the average wage


I get

Free prescriptions
Frozen council tax
Free bridge tolls
Free care for my parents (who are fking loaded)
and if i had kids they would have free education


So justify me a rich traitor having all this free stuff when people are dying in the NHS who could be magically brought back to life by spending more

[Strocky]

simoid said:

Ah yes, poverty. Do you mean relative poverty? Which means that if one person gets really rich, then everyone else becomes relatively poor?

What's wrong with zero hour contracts? They are an important tool for businesses who have variable workloads, and for thousands of Scots who would like to have variable workloads. Banning them just makes us a less flexible, less competitive economy.

You can't go after someone for tax avoidance, either. You're really not very good at this.

No I mean the sort of poverty where an able bodied working family has the choice between eating or heating

I think you're getting confused between zero hour contracts and part time or flexi time work

Of course tax avoidance (not evasion) is legal, however the current government has allowed multi nationals to avoid large corporation tax bills by allowing the use of tax havens

[blinkythefish]

Strocky said:

McWigglebum4th said:

Do you think the NHS would be better in sotland if we stopped the english from changing it

Would it be better if Holyrood was running it?

The NHS is devolved, the block grant isn't but I assume you knew that

Westminster by putting an exemption for the NHS against the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership would be helpful though

Edited by Strocky on Monday 1st December 11:35

You do know that TTIP is a trade agreement between the US and the EU, you know that institution the SNP want to move closer to?

I mean, surely you couldn't support a politician so in favour of the EU and TTIP that they said this:

"Earlier this month, the European Union and the USA announced that they would work to establish a Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership. The announcement was a reminder of the massive opportunities that European Union membership brings. President Barroso predicted that when the agreement is up and running, the European economy will get a stimulus of half a per cent of its GDP. For Scotland, for whom the USA is our largest trading partner outside the EU, such a partnership will be especially good news."

N. Sturgeon, Speech to European Policy Centre in Brussels, 26 February 2013

[Strocky]

blinkythefish said:

You do know that TTIP is a trade agreement between the US and the EU, you know that institution the SNP want to move closer to?

I mean, surely you couldn't support a politician so in favour of the EU and TTIP that they said this:

"Earlier this month, the European Union and the USA announced that they would work to establish a Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership. The announcement was a reminder of the massive opportunities that European Union membership brings. President Barroso predicted that when the agreement is up and running, the European economy will get a stimulus of half a per cent of its GDP. For Scotland, for whom the USA is our largest trading partner outside the EU, such a partnership will be especially good news."

N. Sturgeon, Speech to European Policy Centre in Brussels, 26 February 2013

Your quote is from the beginning of the formal talks, so is a little bit out of context

You can ask for an exemption for specific industries, if you don't then an American Healthcare company can then sue for either loss of earnings or loss of contract through the courts

Currently the UK government has not requested an exemption for the NHS although hopefully common sense will prevail

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/nov/...

http://labourlist.org/2014/07/ttip-the-nhs-will-be...

https://www.opendemocracy.net/ournhs/john-hilary/c...

[McWigglebum4th]

Strocky said:

No I mean the sort of poverty where an able bodied working family has the choice between eating or heating

Remind me again about the following

The VAT rate on food in the EU especially denmark

Have some help http://www.kpmg.com/global/en/issuesandinsights/ar...


Now remind me the VAT rate on energy/fuel for household heating in scotland and the rest of the EU


Remind me again the cost of energy from renewables

What is the SNP wanting to do regards power generation?

Is it to move to cheaper forms like gas from fracking or is it to move to more expensive forms of energy like wind

[simoid]

All wonderfully irrelevant and hypothetical since the United Kingdom will remain for our lifetimes, as democratically decided by the Scottish electorate

[McWigglebum4th]

simoid said:

All wonderfully irrelevant and hypothetical since the United Kingdom will remain for our lifetimes, as democratically decided by the Scottish electorate

What did we have a vote on it or something


I have been listening to the SNP and not a single mention of it ever happening

[simoid]

Indeed - over 2,000,000 people took time, effort and money to make it to their polling station and positively vote for the continuation of our United Kingdom. Sure I heard about it a couple of months ago!

[McWigglebum4th]

Don't belive you for a second

If that had happened the scottish government would be striving to make a unified and better scotland

They are just banging on about blaming england the same as they have done for the past 80 odd years

[Funk]

simoid said:

Strocky said:

TBF Scottish society is a tad fairer than the rest of the UK due to the Scottish Government offsetting the bedroom tax and offering Free Higher Education

Re the subsidy myth, I assume as a Daily Mail reader you'll need a pretty picture to help work out that you're wrong



The figures above also don't reflect Scottish Shoppers VAT contributions (VAT is generated from Head Office Location) and some Whisky Duty (which is generated at the port of departure)

Now I've no problem with "pooled resources" as long as we're all clear Scotland isn't subsidised by the rest of the UK or England

Here to help

The image you have supplied pops up every now and again on this thread and is nonsense.

Here are the Scottish government figures showing how much was spent in Scotland in terms of "identifiable" (ie obviously for the region of Scotland, so not London's sewer system or the roads of the south east) and "non-identifiable" ie army, interest payments.

As you can see, identifiable expenditure is above £50bn every year.


And to piss in your kettle a little more, we've spent more on identifiable expenditure in the last 5 years than we've taken in taxes, including our geographical share of the UK's oil.



Thanks for keeping my research brain active

Excellent work, simoid!

Not to mention the disproportionate percentage of public sector jobs that find their way to Scotland which is 'support by stealth' from the rUK.

[Edinburger]

Funk said:

simoid said:

Strocky said:

TBF Scottish society is a tad fairer than the rest of the UK due to the Scottish Government offsetting the bedroom tax and offering Free Higher Education

Re the subsidy myth, I assume as a Daily Mail reader you'll need a pretty picture to help work out that you're wrong



The figures above also don't reflect Scottish Shoppers VAT contributions (VAT is generated from Head Office Location) and some Whisky Duty (which is generated at the port of departure)

Now I've no problem with "pooled resources" as long as we're all clear Scotland isn't subsidised by the rest of the UK or England

Here to help

The image you have supplied pops up every now and again on this thread and is nonsense.

Here are the Scottish government figures showing how much was spent in Scotland in terms of "identifiable" (ie obviously for the region of Scotland, so not London's sewer system or the roads of the south east) and "non-identifiable" ie army, interest payments.

As you can see, identifiable expenditure is above £50bn every year.


And to piss in your kettle a little more, we've spent more on identifiable expenditure in the last 5 years than we've taken in taxes, including our geographical share of the UK's oil.



Thanks for keeping my research brain active

Excellent work, simoid!

Not to mention the disproportionate percentage of public sector jobs that find their way to Scotland which is 'support by stealth' from the rUK.

"Excellent work"? No, it's not.

As I have said on probably every volume of this thread several times over, no one knows the correct figures. They are a guesstimate.

I live and work in Scotland yet pay taxes through an English tax office. I'd imagine hundreds of thousands if not millions of people are in a similar situation.

We do not know the exact income and expenditure of Scotland or any other part of the UK.

[Edinburger]

simoid said:

Edinburger said:

Rollin said:

Salmond has convinced the nats that they are too wee, too poor and too stupid to achieve anything without independence.

Blame the Scottish parliament for any "unequal" and "unfair" society you have. They've had the tools to change things AND a subsidy from the rest of the UK.

The problem is that the SNP government has nothing to gain from Scotland improving whilst being part of the UK. Much easier to play the blame game.

Which tools are you referring to?

http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/visitandlearn/25488.aspx

It's not in the SNP interest to try to make Scotland a more equal place, because if they fail, it'll be their fault. Much better for them to continue to blame the English.

Nice diversion, simoid. I didn't mention blame. I asked about these "tools".

[Edinburger]

McWigglebum4th said:

Edinburger said:

Rollin said:

Salmond has convinced the nats that they are too wee, too poor and too stupid to achieve anything without independence.

Blame the Scottish parliament for any "unequal" and "unfair" society you have. They've had the tools to change things AND a subsidy from the rest of the UK.

The problem is that the SNP government has nothing to gain from Scotland improving whilst being part of the UK. Much easier to play the blame game.

Which tools are you referring to?

The scottish parliment has had the power to vary income tax by 3% from 1997 to 2010

They never used it


They are more worried about knocking the english and westminister then they are in improving scotland

Aah, an answer! So up to a 3% variance in a single tax is "the tools to change things"...!

[Edinburger]

McWigglebum4th said:

Edinburger said:

LOL

Not sure what's the funniest - this idiots trolley campaign or the fact you're worried we've not seen any terrorist activities following your outrageous predictions!

Do want to tell this radical hard hitting terrorist has left shopping trolley isn't viewed as the hardest hitting attach since 9/11?



And i have never been worried my predictions are wrong.

I am worried they are right

I think MI5 and MI6 can stand down then!

[simoid]

Edinburger said:

"Excellent work"? No, it's not.

As I have said on probably every volume of this thread several times over, no one knows the correct figures. They are a guesstimate.

I live and work in Scotland yet pay taxes through an English tax office. I'd imagine hundreds of thousands if not millions of people are in a similar situation.

We do not know the exact income and expenditure of Scotland or any other part of the UK.

Of course it's excellent work. It doesn't surprise me that you're unable to realise it since you seem to spend your life looking for sticks and grabbing the wrong end of them.

I've clearly explained the best available statistics we have to debunk the nonsense "infographic" provided by the latest addition to the thread.

How inaccurate do you think they are? A significant amount? 1%? 10%? Let's also bear in mind that the SNP take the figures from the UK bodies and make a variety of adjustments to make Scotland's taxation higher and expenditure lower.

You know as well as I do that if they were noticeably misrepresentative the SNP and 45 and whoever else brigade would be all over them like a dug eating beetroot, saying how unfair the world is and how Scotland should be independent.

But they're not.

Are they?

So it's safe to conclude that the figures aren't meaningfully skewed against Scotland. As I tell you every time you trot out the line that 'nobody knows'.

[Gaspode]

Edinburger said:

"Excellent work"? No, it's not.

As I have said on probably every volume of this thread several times over, no one knows the correct figures. They are a guesstimate.

I live and work in Scotland yet pay taxes through an English tax office. I'd imagine hundreds of thousands if not millions of people are in a similar situation.

We do not know the exact income and expenditure of Scotland or any other part of the UK.

I'm not sure why you think is a problem for HMRC to figure out? They handle the vast majority of taxes through a couple of places (I pay my taxes to Cumbernauld, for example) but they are easily able to trace where my taxes were earned and paid.