Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 6
Discussion
Funk said:
simoid said:
Strocky said:
TBF Scottish society is a tad fairer than the rest of the UK due to the Scottish Government offsetting the bedroom tax and offering Free Higher Education
Re the subsidy myth, I assume as a Daily Mail reader you'll need a pretty picture to help work out that you're wrong
The figures above also don't reflect Scottish Shoppers VAT contributions (VAT is generated from Head Office Location) and some Whisky Duty (which is generated at the port of departure)
Now I've no problem with "pooled resources" as long as we're all clear Scotland isn't subsidised by the rest of the UK or England
Here to help
The image you have supplied pops up every now and again on this thread and is nonsense.Re the subsidy myth, I assume as a Daily Mail reader you'll need a pretty picture to help work out that you're wrong
The figures above also don't reflect Scottish Shoppers VAT contributions (VAT is generated from Head Office Location) and some Whisky Duty (which is generated at the port of departure)
Now I've no problem with "pooled resources" as long as we're all clear Scotland isn't subsidised by the rest of the UK or England
Here to help
Here are the Scottish government figures showing how much was spent in Scotland in terms of "identifiable" (ie obviously for the region of Scotland, so not London's sewer system or the roads of the south east) and "non-identifiable" ie army, interest payments.
As you can see, identifiable expenditure is above £50bn every year.
And to piss in your kettle a little more, we've spent more on identifiable expenditure in the last 5 years than we've taken in taxes, including our geographical share of the UK's oil.
Thanks for keeping my research brain active
Not to mention the disproportionate percentage of public sector jobs that find their way to Scotland which is 'support by stealth' from the rUK.
As I have said on probably every volume of this thread several times over, no one knows the correct figures. They are a guesstimate.
I live and work in Scotland yet pay taxes through an English tax office. I'd imagine hundreds of thousands if not millions of people are in a similar situation.
We do not know the exact income and expenditure of Scotland or any other part of the UK.
simoid said:
Edinburger said:
Rollin said:
Salmond has convinced the nats that they are too wee, too poor and too stupid to achieve anything without independence.
Blame the Scottish parliament for any "unequal" and "unfair" society you have. They've had the tools to change things AND a subsidy from the rest of the UK.
The problem is that the SNP government has nothing to gain from Scotland improving whilst being part of the UK. Much easier to play the blame game.
Which tools are you referring to?Blame the Scottish parliament for any "unequal" and "unfair" society you have. They've had the tools to change things AND a subsidy from the rest of the UK.
The problem is that the SNP government has nothing to gain from Scotland improving whilst being part of the UK. Much easier to play the blame game.
It's not in the SNP interest to try to make Scotland a more equal place, because if they fail, it'll be their fault. Much better for them to continue to blame the English.
McWigglebum4th said:
Edinburger said:
Rollin said:
Salmond has convinced the nats that they are too wee, too poor and too stupid to achieve anything without independence.
Blame the Scottish parliament for any "unequal" and "unfair" society you have. They've had the tools to change things AND a subsidy from the rest of the UK.
The problem is that the SNP government has nothing to gain from Scotland improving whilst being part of the UK. Much easier to play the blame game.
Which tools are you referring to?Blame the Scottish parliament for any "unequal" and "unfair" society you have. They've had the tools to change things AND a subsidy from the rest of the UK.
The problem is that the SNP government has nothing to gain from Scotland improving whilst being part of the UK. Much easier to play the blame game.
They never used it
They are more worried about knocking the english and westminister then they are in improving scotland
McWigglebum4th said:
Edinburger said:
LOL
Not sure what's the funniest - this idiots trolley campaign or the fact you're worried we've not seen any terrorist activities following your outrageous predictions!
Do want to tell this radical hard hitting terrorist has left shopping trolley isn't viewed as the hardest hitting attach since 9/11?Not sure what's the funniest - this idiots trolley campaign or the fact you're worried we've not seen any terrorist activities following your outrageous predictions!
And i have never been worried my predictions are wrong.
I am worried they are right
Edinburger said:
"Excellent work"? No, it's not.
As I have said on probably every volume of this thread several times over, no one knows the correct figures. They are a guesstimate.
I live and work in Scotland yet pay taxes through an English tax office. I'd imagine hundreds of thousands if not millions of people are in a similar situation.
We do not know the exact income and expenditure of Scotland or any other part of the UK.
Of course it's excellent work. It doesn't surprise me that you're unable to realise it since you seem to spend your life looking for sticks and grabbing the wrong end of them.As I have said on probably every volume of this thread several times over, no one knows the correct figures. They are a guesstimate.
I live and work in Scotland yet pay taxes through an English tax office. I'd imagine hundreds of thousands if not millions of people are in a similar situation.
We do not know the exact income and expenditure of Scotland or any other part of the UK.
I've clearly explained the best available statistics we have to debunk the nonsense "infographic" provided by the latest addition to the thread.
How inaccurate do you think they are? A significant amount? 1%? 10%? Let's also bear in mind that the SNP take the figures from the UK bodies and make a variety of adjustments to make Scotland's taxation higher and expenditure lower.
You know as well as I do that if they were noticeably misrepresentative the SNP and 45 and whoever else brigade would be all over them like a dug eating beetroot, saying how unfair the world is and how Scotland should be independent.
But they're not.
Are they?
So it's safe to conclude that the figures aren't meaningfully skewed against Scotland. As I tell you every time you trot out the line that 'nobody knows'.
Edinburger said:
"Excellent work"? No, it's not.
As I have said on probably every volume of this thread several times over, no one knows the correct figures. They are a guesstimate.
I live and work in Scotland yet pay taxes through an English tax office. I'd imagine hundreds of thousands if not millions of people are in a similar situation.
We do not know the exact income and expenditure of Scotland or any other part of the UK.
I'm not sure why you think is a problem for HMRC to figure out? They handle the vast majority of taxes through a couple of places (I pay my taxes to Cumbernauld, for example) but they are easily able to trace where my taxes were earned and paid.As I have said on probably every volume of this thread several times over, no one knows the correct figures. They are a guesstimate.
I live and work in Scotland yet pay taxes through an English tax office. I'd imagine hundreds of thousands if not millions of people are in a similar situation.
We do not know the exact income and expenditure of Scotland or any other part of the UK.
Edinburger said:
simoid said:
Edinburger said:
Rollin said:
Salmond has convinced the nats that they are too wee, too poor and too stupid to achieve anything without independence.
Blame the Scottish parliament for any "unequal" and "unfair" society you have. They've had the tools to change things AND a subsidy from the rest of the UK.
The problem is that the SNP government has nothing to gain from Scotland improving whilst being part of the UK. Much easier to play the blame game.
Which tools are you referring to?Blame the Scottish parliament for any "unequal" and "unfair" society you have. They've had the tools to change things AND a subsidy from the rest of the UK.
The problem is that the SNP government has nothing to gain from Scotland improving whilst being part of the UK. Much easier to play the blame game.
It's not in the SNP interest to try to make Scotland a more equal place, because if they fail, it'll be their fault. Much better for them to continue to blame the English.
It wasn't a diversion. You asked about the tools, I gave you a link to the tools, and then I furthered conversation by explaining why those tools aren't used.
Edinburger said:
McWigglebum4th said:
Edinburger said:
Rollin said:
Salmond has convinced the nats that they are too wee, too poor and too stupid to achieve anything without independence.
Blame the Scottish parliament for any "unequal" and "unfair" society you have. They've had the tools to change things AND a subsidy from the rest of the UK.
The problem is that the SNP government has nothing to gain from Scotland improving whilst being part of the UK. Much easier to play the blame game.
Which tools are you referring to?Blame the Scottish parliament for any "unequal" and "unfair" society you have. They've had the tools to change things AND a subsidy from the rest of the UK.
The problem is that the SNP government has nothing to gain from Scotland improving whilst being part of the UK. Much easier to play the blame game.
They never used it
They are more worried about knocking the english and westminister then they are in improving scotland
Equally, how do you expect than any significant variation in (income) taxation could possibly work within a single country (i.e. the UK that 2M Scots voted to remain part of)?
Edinburger said:
Aah, an answer! So up to a 3% variance in a single tax is "the tools to change things"...!
Whoosh. Missed the point. AGAIN!They've not used the tools.
If they had used the tools at their disposal, and then things weren't improving, then they'd have a point. But to sit with powers to make Scotland a "fairer and more equal place" and not use them, whilst also complaining about how Scotland is unfair and unequal, is the height of hypocrisy.
simoid said:
Strocky said:
simoid said:
You know the SNP chooses how much money the Scottish NHS can spend, right?
And who sets the amount of overall budget, you know the stuff that pays for everything else?I assume we also agree that the SNP gets a chunk of money to spend from the UK exchequer.
And, as I showed earlier, billions more is spent in and for Scotland than is taxed.
So, basically, we've got the perfect life. We spend what we want, and don't have to worry about raising taxes.
Just like Scottish people voted for: do you want to be an independent country? "No."
simoid said:
Edinburger said:
Aah, an answer! So up to a 3% variance in a single tax is "the tools to change things"...!
Whoosh. Missed the point. AGAIN!They've not used the tools.
If they had used the tools at their disposal, and then things weren't improving, then they'd have a point. But to sit with powers to make Scotland a "fairer and more equal place" and not use them, whilst also complaining about how Scotland is unfair and unequal, is the height of hypocrisy.
They should be making rich NO voting traitors like us pay for s
t.We should be taxed to death to bring their vision of fairness
We should be taxed so hard that we have to leave the country
I'm sick and tired of this st tbh. I've read and heard a load over the weekend about 'the vow', Smith and all the rest.
It was a simple choice, just a few weeks ago. Independence- yes or no?
We voted (overwhelmingly) no.
I don't care if the SNP have a million mong members, if they get 30 seats at Westminster or if Sturgeon thinks oil should be $200 a barrel. They chose the timing, the date, the question, for 16 year olds to vote and it was still a no.
Choose life. Choose Westminster. Choose Barnett and the block grant. Choose Sterling. Choose nuclear defence. Choose lower taxes. Choose UK NHS and welfare. Choose Britain.
fk the vow. Now if we could just let Holyrood burn...
t tbh. I've read and heard a load over the weekend about 'the vow', Smith and all the rest.It was a simple choice, just a few weeks ago. Independence- yes or no?
We voted (overwhelmingly) no.
I don't care if the SNP have a million mong members, if they get 30 seats at Westminster or if Sturgeon thinks oil should be $200 a barrel. They chose the timing, the date, the question, for 16 year olds to vote and it was still a no.
Choose life. Choose Westminster. Choose Barnett and the block grant. Choose Sterling. Choose nuclear defence. Choose lower taxes. Choose UK NHS and welfare. Choose Britain.
f
k the vow. Now if we could just let Holyrood burn...For information: the SNP have ensured council tax bills have been frozen since 2007 - for £60k flats that's fair enough. Not particularly fair to increase bills for folk in the bottom tiers.
But they've frozen it for every property in Scotland, effectively cutting tax by thousands of pounds for the richest in Scotland too.
Like Wiggley, and Edinburger.
But they've frozen it for every property in Scotland, effectively cutting tax by thousands of pounds for the richest in Scotland too.
Like Wiggley, and Edinburger.
simoid said:
Edinburger said:
Aah, an answer! So up to a 3% variance in a single tax is "the tools to change things"...!
Whoosh. Missed the point. AGAIN!They've not used the tools.
If they had used the tools at their disposal, and then things weren't improving, then they'd have a point. But to sit with powers to make Scotland a "fairer and more equal place" and not use them, whilst also complaining about how Scotland is unfair and unequal, is the height of hypocrisy.
Rollin said "they've had the tools to change things" and my point is that the ability to change up to 3% in income tax rates changes the square root of not a bloody lot!
Wombat3 said:
Edinburger said:
McWigglebum4th said:
Edinburger said:
Rollin said:
Salmond has convinced the nats that they are too wee, too poor and too stupid to achieve anything without independence.
Blame the Scottish parliament for any "unequal" and "unfair" society you have. They've had the tools to change things AND a subsidy from the rest of the UK.
The problem is that the SNP government has nothing to gain from Scotland improving whilst being part of the UK. Much easier to play the blame game.
Which tools are you referring to?Blame the Scottish parliament for any "unequal" and "unfair" society you have. They've had the tools to change things AND a subsidy from the rest of the UK.
The problem is that the SNP government has nothing to gain from Scotland improving whilst being part of the UK. Much easier to play the blame game.
They never used it
They are more worried about knocking the english and westminister then they are in improving scotland
Equally, how do you expect than any significant variation in (income) taxation could possibly work within a single country (i.e. the UK that 2M Scots voted to remain part of)?
I don't see how having different rates of income tax in different components of the UK is so difficult to operate, but there would need to be a rule re. deemed domocile (or similar) for people who "work" in different parts of the UK at different times.
simoid said:
Edinburger said:
"Excellent work"? No, it's not.
As I have said on probably every volume of this thread several times over, no one knows the correct figures. They are a guesstimate.
I live and work in Scotland yet pay taxes through an English tax office. I'd imagine hundreds of thousands if not millions of people are in a similar situation.
We do not know the exact income and expenditure of Scotland or any other part of the UK.
Of course it's excellent work. It doesn't surprise me that you're unable to realise it since you seem to spend your life looking for sticks and grabbing the wrong end of them.As I have said on probably every volume of this thread several times over, no one knows the correct figures. They are a guesstimate.
I live and work in Scotland yet pay taxes through an English tax office. I'd imagine hundreds of thousands if not millions of people are in a similar situation.
We do not know the exact income and expenditure of Scotland or any other part of the UK.
I've clearly explained the best available statistics we have to debunk the nonsense "infographic" provided by the latest addition to the thread.
How inaccurate do you think they are? A significant amount? 1%? 10%? Let's also bear in mind that the SNP take the figures from the UK bodies and make a variety of adjustments to make Scotland's taxation higher and expenditure lower.
You know as well as I do that if they were noticeably misrepresentative the SNP and 45 and whoever else brigade would be all over them like a dug eating beetroot, saying how unfair the world is and how Scotland should be independent.
But they're not.
Are they?
So it's safe to conclude that the figures aren't meaningfully skewed against Scotland. As I tell you every time you trot out the line that 'nobody knows'.
I never suggested they're skewed against Scotland. I did indeed say though that nobody knows the exact amount of income and expenditure in Scotland or any other part of the UK. Fact.
Edinburger said:
simoid said:
Edinburger said:
Aah, an answer! So up to a 3% variance in a single tax is "the tools to change things"...!
Whoosh. Missed the point. AGAIN!They've not used the tools.
If they had used the tools at their disposal, and then things weren't improving, then they'd have a point. But to sit with powers to make Scotland a "fairer and more equal place" and not use them, whilst also complaining about how Scotland is unfair and unequal, is the height of hypocrisy.
Rollin said "they've had the tools to change things" and my point is that the ability to change up to 3% in income tax rates changes the square root of not a bloody lot!
They could've given the lowest earners in Scotland thousands of Pounds each in tax cuts but haven't bothered their arse! Hence - hypocrites. They could've made life fairer/easier for those who were complaining about Westminster austerity and voted YES to get rid of it.
But they didn't.
Edinburger said:
No - you missed the point.
Rollin said "they've had the tools to change things" and my point is that the ability to change up to 3% in income tax rates changes the square root of not a bloody lot!
Lets say that you are partially right.. and that being able to change the income tax rates by 3% would not have raised enough extra cash to change everything that the SNP wanted to change.... that being said, that still does not explain why the SNP did not use the tool and make the limited changes they could have made. After all, if your quest is for a fairer society then surely you take every step you can in that direction? Not being able to do everything is surely not a justification for not doing anything at all, is it? (unless of course the quest for fairness and equality is not really part of the SNPs intentions ?) Rollin said "they've had the tools to change things" and my point is that the ability to change up to 3% in income tax rates changes the square root of not a bloody lot!
Gaspode said:
Edinburger said:
"Excellent work"? No, it's not.
As I have said on probably every volume of this thread several times over, no one knows the correct figures. They are a guesstimate.
I live and work in Scotland yet pay taxes through an English tax office. I'd imagine hundreds of thousands if not millions of people are in a similar situation.
We do not know the exact income and expenditure of Scotland or any other part of the UK.
I'm not sure why you think is a problem for HMRC to figure out? They handle the vast majority of taxes through a couple of places (I pay my taxes to Cumbernauld, for example) but they are easily able to trace where my taxes were earned and paid.As I have said on probably every volume of this thread several times over, no one knows the correct figures. They are a guesstimate.
I live and work in Scotland yet pay taxes through an English tax office. I'd imagine hundreds of thousands if not millions of people are in a similar situation.
We do not know the exact income and expenditure of Scotland or any other part of the UK.
simoid said:
Edinburger said:
simoid said:
Edinburger said:
Rollin said:
Salmond has convinced the nats that they are too wee, too poor and too stupid to achieve anything without independence.
Blame the Scottish parliament for any "unequal" and "unfair" society you have. They've had the tools to change things AND a subsidy from the rest of the UK.
The problem is that the SNP government has nothing to gain from Scotland improving whilst being part of the UK. Much easier to play the blame game.
Which tools are you referring to?Blame the Scottish parliament for any "unequal" and "unfair" society you have. They've had the tools to change things AND a subsidy from the rest of the UK.
The problem is that the SNP government has nothing to gain from Scotland improving whilst being part of the UK. Much easier to play the blame game.
It's not in the SNP interest to try to make Scotland a more equal place, because if they fail, it'll be their fault. Much better for them to continue to blame the English.
It wasn't a diversion. You asked about the tools, I gave you a link to the tools, and then I furthered conversation by explaining why those tools aren't used.
Yes, I made it through school. And university. And professional examinations.
Are you off to study for your prelims today?
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