Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 6

[Hainey]

They have? I need to check that out for the lulz if nothing else! Did they do a video?

[McWigglebum4th]

Strocky said:

No chip on my shoulder, just a wish for self determination, a different way of governance and escape from a system built on priviledge and elitism at the top level and the chance for a fairer society with a smaller inequality gap (wether that would happen in an IS is another question but it can't be worse than it is now)

So no way that the UK could be worse then it is now


Meanwhile in syria we have folk running around lopping the heads off anyone they disagree with


And why can't the whole of the UK be fairer?

Why must we escape the english?

Are we morally superior to the english?

[///ajd]

Wombat3 said:

Almost everything we hear about how wonderful independence would have been and how badly Scotland fares as part of the Union is vague, unsubstantiated rubbish (such as you spout) which is either devoid of facts or heavily laced with simple (and obvious) lies. And none of you ever explains what it is (in detail) that you could achieve via independence that you can't achieve right now (aside from some wishy-washy nonsense about a "fairer society" without actually explaining what it means or how it would be paid for).

That sums it up nicely.

[Troubleatmill]

Strocky said:

No chip on my shoulder, just a wish for self determination,

Unfortunately for you - most of your fellow countryman don't agree with you.

Strocky said:

..a different way of governance and escape from a system built on priviledge and elitism at the top level..."

As fair as I can recall.
We have had a Prime Minister who was the daughter of some greengrocer., another who used to be in a circus.
A deputy Prime Minister who was a shop steward. He sounded a bit rough too.

Also... every member of Parliament is elected by us.
If you don't like the candidate that is standing - don't vote for them. And they won't get in power.
It really is that simple.

Strocky said:

and the chance for a fairer society with a smaller inequality gap (wether that would happen in an IS is another question but it can't be worse than it is now)

There is absolutely nothing to stop any able bodied person from improving their income by doing extra work.
Most of the wealthier types I know - are wealthy for one reason. They have got their by hard graft, in many cases holding down more than 1 job.
Many others have by setting up their own business.

There isn't a magical barrier to entry here. Anyone can do it.

30% of the entire income tax take is provided by just 1% of the population. ( Those earning over £150K )

What percentage of the income tax take do you think is appropriate for this 1%?


Also- we seem to have a rather large influx of able bodied people who seem to think working here is desirable.

Edited by Troubleatmill on Friday 5th December 19:01

[Cobnapint]

Wombat3 said:

What you (they) need to explain, in detail, is exactly what would be better and by how much because, frankly, you don't know the meaning of the words "hardship" and "deprivation".

Almost everything we hear about how wonderful independence would have been and how badly Scotland fares as part of the Union is vague, unsubstantiated rubbish (such as you spout) which is either devoid of facts or heavily laced with simple (and obvious) lies. And none of you ever explains what it is (in detail) that you could achieve via independence that you can't achieve right now (aside from some wishy-washy nonsense about a "fairer society" without actually explaining what it means or how it would be paid for).

Yep, spot on.

It's always puzzled me just WHAT exactly they think would have been better and fairer with independance.

Were thay expecting free 52" TV's to be delivered to every household..? Or was it that free Sky subscription, happy-hour EVERY hour at every pub, or the cost of new cars to be slashed in half. WHAT? Just tell us......

....or STFU, keep your ginger heads down and carry on enjoying your free prescriptions, nursing care for the over 65's, further education for undergraduates, half price NHS dental care, and the one extra Bank Holiday they get over us south of the border.

Nats make my piss boil. Greedy ungrateful bitter bds, the lot of them.

[Gaspode]

Cobnapint said:

carry on enjoying your free prescriptions

This is the one that boils my piss. What's fair about a system that takes money from the NHS by giving stuff free to people who can afford to pay for it?

[Cobnapint]

Gaspode said:

Cobnapint said:

carry on enjoying your free prescriptions

This is the one that boils my piss. What's fair about a system that takes money from the NHS by giving stuff free to people who can afford to pay for it?

They get free eye tests as well...!

While us English are having to tighten our belts, the Scottish Parliament just carries on taking the piss and ignoring austerity as if it's somebody elses problem.

We, are in effect, subsidising the Scots (and Wales and NI to be fair) life of fking luxury!

Fairer society..?! YES Nichola Mugabe! Lets fking have it now - for the English!

[Strocky]

Gaspode said:

This is the one that boils my piss. What's fair about a system that takes money from the NHS by giving stuff free to people who can afford to pay for it?

It's cheaper than means testing but you fire on bleating about the unfairness of it all on a car forum instead of asking your local MP why England doesn't choose to do the same with their budget

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2010/07/29...

[Strocky]

Cobnapint said:

They get free eye tests as well...!

While us English are having to tighten our belts, the Scottish Parliament just carries on taking the piss and ignoring austerity as if it's somebody elses problem.

We, are in effect, subsidising the Scots (and Wales and NI to be fair) life of fking luxury!

Fairer society..?! YES Nichola Mugabe! Lets fking have it now - for the English!

Demented rantings of a borderline racist loon

[simoid]

Strocky said:

Cobnapint said:

They get free eye tests as well...!

While us English are having to tighten our belts, the Scottish Parliament just carries on taking the piss and ignoring austerity as if it's somebody elses problem.

We, are in effect, subsidising the Scots (and Wales and NI to be fair) life of fking luxury!

Fairer society..?! YES Nichola Mugabe! Lets fking have it now - for the English!

Demented rantings of a borderline racist loon

Perhaps, but mix the countries about and it's almost exactly what the Yes campaign and SNP were/are saying.

[Strocky]

simoid said:

Perhaps, but mix the countries about and it's almost exactly what the Yes campaign and SNP were/are saying.

Absolute bks, the YES campaign where very deliberate in stating the campaign was Anti-Westminster not Anti-English

The only side playing the race card was Better Together allied to numerous references to the SNP being the same as Nazi's (Darling's blood and soil interview being the high (sic) tide mark of Unionist bile)

Allied to the Lib Dems moronic equating of the SNP as the Scottish version of UKIP, if I was an Unionist I'd feel pretty stupid playing the race card when a large swathe of their ranks have a major problem with immigration

Then self awareness from a set of bed wetters who use the UJ as a comfort blanket is hardly a character trait you'd associate with said group

[simoid]

Strocky said:

Absolute bks, the YES campaign where very deliberate in stating the campaign was Anti-Westminster not Anti-English

The only side playing the race card was Better Together allied to numerous references to the SNP being the same as Nazi's (Darling's blood and soil interview being the high (sic) tide mark of Unionist bile)

Allied to the Lib Dems moronic equating of the SNP as the Scottish version of UKIP, if I was an Unionist I'd feel pretty stupid playing the race card when a large swathe of their ranks have a major problem with immigration

Then self awareness from a set of bed wetters who use the UJ as a comfort blanket is hardly a character trait you'd associate with said group

Absolute bks. Blaming it on Westminster = don't want to share governance with The English.

"While us Scots have to tighten our belts, facing the bedroom tax (brought in by English MPs) etc, the English MPs are voting for Trident and dumping it in Scotland, etc"

Anyway, what's the race card got to do with immigration? Does having a problem with immigration make you a racist?

Just like you can't be a right-wing Unionist and a "true Scot"?

You're a joke.

Not even a funny one.

[Wombat3]

Ahh Mr Strocky - a typical Nat at large.....

Awkward points & questions raised? Why, just ignore them, they never happened, nobody saw them anyway !

No need to explain such trivial things as what it is that will make SUCH a difference to people's lives that an independent Scotland could do that Scotland can't do now anyway, is there?




....except there is if you don't wanted to be treated as yet another risible Nationalist troll.

[Strocky]

simoid said:

Absolute bks. Blaming it on Westminster = don't want to share governance with The English.

"While us Scots have to tighten our belts, facing the bedroom tax (brought in by English MPs) etc, the English MPs are voting for Trident and dumping it in Scotland, etc"

Anyway, what's the race card got to do with immigration? Does having a problem with immigration make you a racist?

Just like you can't be a right-wing Unionist and a "true Scot"?

You're a joke.

Not even a funny one.

Newsflash for you, a fair few English punters (especially those North of the Watford gap) are just as pissed off with the Londoncentric Westminster machine as those in Scotland

Re the immigration "problem", the UK is part of the EU and knows the rules of participation, if you don't think the average UKIP voters main issue is with the fact that the Daily Mail is telling them that it's pesky foreigners that's making their life's a misery rather than their current government then you're deluded

The unpalatable truth is that the majority of EU immigrants pay tax and accept low wages on jobs that UK born citizens refuse to entertain (and would rather claim benefits than fill those vacancies)

There's also the knock on effect that the working UK "elite" gain from the immigration as it drives lower costs in the service industry, thus giving them more buying power in the marketplace

I've already answered your loaded hypothesis, if you're too thick to digest that, then that's your issue, I'm not here to spoon feed you

[simoid]

Strocky said:

Newsflash for you, a fair few English punters (especially those North of the Watford gap) are just as pissed off with the Londoncentric Westminster machine as those in Scotland

Re the immigration "problem", the UK is part of the EU and knows the rules of participation, if you don't think the average UKIP voters main issue is with the fact that the Daily Mail is telling them that it's pesky foreigners that's making their life's a misery rather than their current government then you're deluded

The unpalatable truth is that the majority of EU immigrants pay tax and accept low wages on jobs that UK born citizens refuse to entertain (and would rather claim benefits than fill those vacancies)

There's also the knock on effect that the working UK "elite" gain from the immigration as it drives lower costs in the service industry, thus giving them more buying power in the marketplace

I've already answered your loaded hypothesis, if you're too thick to digest that, then that's your issue, I'm not here to spoon feed you

Didn't answer my questions.

Newsflash - I was talking about Scots' reasons for independence, so the feelings of those Oop North have little to do with that.

You appeared to suggest that to have a problem with immigration is to be a racist. Is that your belief? I'm well aware of the issues surrounding immigration.

I missed your answer to my question: can a right-wing unionist be a "true Scot". Could you repeat?

[Wombat3]

Strocky said:

Newsflash for you, a fair few English punters (especially those North of the Watford gap) are just as pissed off with the Londoncentric Westminster machine as those in Scotland

London? you mean that place where close to 1/3 of the entire UK's population lives within about 50 miles of?

There are more people inside the M25 than in the entirety of Scotland - and then some.

Meanwhile people in the South east pay the highest prices for just about everything, cope with one of the most crowded environments in Europe, and generate most of the wealth that keeps the likes of you & yours afloat ya ingrate. God help you if they ever decide they've had enough of your whinging and cut you adrift!

Strocky said:

Re the immigration "problem", the UK is part of the EU and knows the rules of participation, if you don't think the average UKIP voters main issue is with the fact that the Daily Mail is telling them that it's pesky foreigners that's making their life's a misery rather than their current government then you're deluded

Ah its all the current government's fault. Whatever you think of them they've been there but for a blink of an eye in economic (and political) terms. The current malaise can in fact be laid fairly squarely at the feet of a number of Scotsmen as it goes. As for "the rules" we were signed up to some idiotic stuff by idiots. A particular Scots idiot as it happen. Until we can find a way to sort it out we are legally bound, but sitting up there in your tartan tower, you plainly have no fking idea what's going on with immigration in other parts of the country

Strocky said:

The unpalatable truth is that the majority of EU immigrants pay tax and accept low wages on jobs that UK born citizens refuse to entertain (and would rather claim benefits than fill those vacancies)

Low wages and paying tax does not compute. 1st 10K is tax free.

Over 30% of income tax now paid by top 1% (people on over £150K.) AFAIK

Benefits culture created by Scotsmen as is well documented.

Strocky said:

There's also the knock on effect that the working UK "elite" gain from the immigration as it drives lower costs in the service industry, thus giving them more buying power in the marketplace

What a load of horsest. The markets (and the labour market) are a lot more complex than that. You are plainly way out of your depth on this stuff so I would quit while you are ahead (except you aren't really )

Strocky said:

I've already answered your loaded hypothesis, if you're too thick to digest that, then that's your issue, I'm not here to spoon feed you

No, you are plainly hear to vomit out yet more nonsensical Nationalist drivel !

Edited by Wombat3 on Saturday 6th December 02:02

[Strocky]

Wombat3 said:

Ahh Mr Strocky - a typical Nat at large.....

Awkward points & questions raised? Why, just ignore them, they never happened, nobody saw them anyway !

No need to explain such trivial things as what it is that will make SUCH a difference to people's lives that an independent Scotland could do that Scotland can't do now anyway, is there?




....except there is if you don't wanted to be treated as yet another risible Nationalist troll.

If you can't see the difference between the current Coalition & the YES manifesto, then there's no point debtating with you

There seems to be a misapprehension that Westminster sends up an infinite pot of gold (from the pennies Scotland sends down) that the Scottish government can use to fund all their "lefty socialist" pipe dreams, despite the fact the reality is somewhat different

A couple of questions to the Unionists / English regarding Scotland

A) If Scotland is such a drain on the UK (and subsidised) why the clamour to keep Scotland as part of the Union?
B) Why direct your ire at the Scottish Government and how they decide to spend their budget rather than Westminster?
Be pissed off with them, not the SG, demand better

[Wombat3]

Strocky said:

Wombat3 said:

Ahh Mr Strocky - a typical Nat at large.....

Awkward points & questions raised? Why, just ignore them, they never happened, nobody saw them anyway !

No need to explain such trivial things as what it is that will make SUCH a difference to people's lives that an independent Scotland could do that Scotland can't do now anyway, is there?

....except there is if you don't wanted to be treated as yet another risible Nationalist troll.

If you can't see the difference between the current Coalition & the YES manifesto, then there's no point debtating with you

There seems to be a misapprehension that Westminster sends up an infinite pot of gold (from the pennies Scotland sends down) that the Scottish government can use to fund all their "lefty socialist" pipe dreams, despite the fact the reality is somewhat different

A couple of questions to the Unionists / English regarding Scotland

A) If Scotland is such a drain on the UK (and subsidised) why the clamour to keep Scotland as part of the Union?
B) Why direct your ire at the Scottish Government and how they decide to spend their budget rather than Westminster?
Be pissed off with them, not the SG, demand better

A) Stability. Respect for the wishes of the majority. Many people have family in Scotland, many Scots are happily settled in England. Only a very small number of selfish, greedy and deluded s actually want to destroy the UK, the vast majority of us are happy with it as it is thanks.

B) Couldn't give a toss what the SG does. Looking forward to the point when they collect your taxes and the block grant is cut. Then we will see if they can find a calculator to make it all work. Those of us that passed basic arithmetic are booking up the front row seats to watch the carnage up close. Have you not figured out how badly you're going to get screwed by this? In fact what is going to happen is that the balance with the rest of the UK is going to get restored, but it will not be good for Scotland. Still, you reap what you sow

[simoid]

Strocky said:

If you can't see the difference between the current Coalition & the YES manifesto, then there's no point debtating with you

There seems to be a misapprehension that Westminster sends up an infinite pot of gold (from the pennies Scotland sends down) that the Scottish government can use to fund all their "lefty socialist" pipe dreams, despite the fact the reality is somewhat different

A couple of questions to the Unionists / English regarding Scotland

A) If Scotland is such a drain on the UK (and subsidised) why the clamour to keep Scotland as part of the Union?
B) Why direct your ire at the Scottish Government and how they decide to spend their budget rather than Westminster?
Be pissed off with them, not the SG, demand better

It's not an infinite pot, but it's a fkload more than Scotland taxes (by the SNP's own measurements). Nearly a £10k deficit for every person in Scotland over the last 5 years. The Scottish Government has money to send wombles around the country checking folk's tyre pressures for goodness sake!


A) Because we'd all be worse off if Scotland left the UK.
B) My ire is directed where appropriate. Often at Westminster, although I do have a dislike for the SNP government as they are intent on splitting up a country, despite the fact it's always looked to be against the wishes of the majority. This long term, overarching strategy I have a problem with more than any other particular policy or budgetary concerns anywhere.

[Strocky]

Wombat3 said:

No, you are plainly hear to vomit out yet more nonsensical Nationalist drivel !

Edited by Wombat3 on Saturday 6th December 02:02

Scotland generates more than it's fair share per head by region, so it's a tad moronic to stat wk over the population size of London/SE

[img]http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_Kingdom#/image/File:Contributions_to_the_UK_economy_in_2011_by_region.png[\img]

London's worth to the economy isn't worth the junk bonds it's written on, call me old fashioned but I prefer my revenues to be tangible

I find it endearing that you think that just one Scottish politician set all poltical agenda and ruled the country as a one man dictatorship and in no way racist or moronic

Edited by Strocky on Saturday 6th December 02:20

Edited by Strocky on Saturday 6th December 02:21