Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 6

[fluffnik]

McWigglebum4th said:

YOU aren't scotland

WE the 64% who did not vote to leave the UK are scotland

By the same measure, 54% did not vote to keep the Union.

[MintyScot]

fluffnik said:

By the same measure, 54% did not vote to keep the Union.

The question was....

Should Scotland be an independent country?

Happy to help.

[Driver101]

McWigglebum4th said:

Do you have a reading problem?

I never said 55% that voted NO

I am saying that 64% did NOT vote to leave

care to challenge my maths?


And i know quite well what the scottish people are like as i live up here presently

Just there is growing minority who are face painted left wing idiots

They are probably a few tiny percent and fking loath them with a passion


I firmly belive the majority of YES voters were just pissed off with westminister and believed the st from those aholes in the SNP as they never questioned a word of it due to a lack of critical thinking

They have got on with life

s like arp1 above can't and never will and i take the piss as they are basically morons

I don't have any problems reading. Do you? I never said that you did say 55% voted no. All I said is you can't lump the people who didn't vote on to your side to strengthen your argument. All I said was all you can provide as factual evidence is 55%.

Just because 64% didn't vote for independence, you can't speak on their behalf to what their say might actually be. You have no way of knowing.

2001926 people voted to stay. That was 55.3% of the vote.

4283392 people were eligible to vote, but 660071 never used there vote. 2001926+660071=2661997.

2661997 is 62.1% of 4283392.

There was 3429 wasted votes. Add them in and you are 62.2% who didn't vote yes.

Why not just add in the other one million people who make up the population of Scotland, who for one reason or another didn't have a vote? Add them in and you've got 69.4% of people who didn't vote yes.

Facts remain that 55.3% people voted to stay and that's the only factual reference you have.

Using your own logic, I could assume that the majority didn't want the Union. Add in the people who didn't vote and assume they would have voted yes, then you'd have a completely different result. However that would be twisting facts, which I'll just leave for you.

You live in Aberdeenshire which isn't a reflection on Scotland as a whole. I live pretty close to you obviously. If it wasn't for my work, I wouldn't choose to stay in this area.

For all the places I've lived, I've never actually experienced so much ill feeling towards the English and foreigners.

It did surprise me that Aberdeen voted no as they hate the English more than any place I've lived. I guess my opinion based on knowing hundreds of people doesn't reflect the majority in the area though.

Edited by Driver101 on Wednesday 4th March 18:02

[Edinburger]

Welshbeef said:

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key...

Anyone want to have a play with this to calculate what £400k in 1707 would be worth today given the attached link re UK BOE base rates.

Seems pointless to be honest, but the relative worth of £400,000 from 1707 is:

£55,200,000.00 using the retail price index
£58,800,000.00 using the GDP deflator
£747,000,000.00 using the average earnings
£1,030,000,000.00 using the per capita GDP
£6,800,000,000.00 using the share of GDP

History didn't go from Darien > oil > today, you know.

[fluffnik]

McWigglebum4th said:

So they won't be going for a referendum next year then?

Seems very unlikely.

The next potential trigger would be if Scotland voted to stay in the EU when the UK as a whole voted to leave.

In the meantime, since we're stuck with the UK, we might as well get it modernised and working for Scotland.

[Edinburger]

Driver101 said:

McWigglebum4th said:

I can just point out one little point

YOU aren't scotland

WE the 64% who did not vote to leave the UK are scotland

so never ever assume that you speak for me

McWigglebum4th said:

You show me some non lefty idiots who want FFRREEEedededededddddooommmmmmmmm

As the evidence shown on this forum is they are exclusively lefty idiots

McWigglebum4th said:

You show me some non lefty idiots who want FFRREEEedededededddddooommmmmmmmm

As the evidence shown on this forum is they are exclusively lefty idiots

I fully agree that people shouldn't be speaking on your behalf.

However, why do you feel you are the voice for everyone else and can speak for the majority of others when your opinion in so small?

You are speaking on the behalf of millions based of your experience of "many". How many is many?

I'm guessing many is actually very, very few in the grand scheme of things.

I thought is was 55% of people who voted no. Are you just speaking on behalf of those who didn't vote and assume they would have said no? Ever consider than many people just couldn't be bothered with the vote and couldn't care less?

I've honestly never read anyone post as much ste as yourself.

I guess you think all Scottish people are ginger, wear kilts and all permanently have a bottle of Whisky in their hand?

Your opinions and facts are delusional. As I've said before, you are basing your facts on such a tiny proportion of people, then using your prejudices and stupidity to make up the rest. Then when the case is reversed, you don't like it.

Maybe you could stop speaking on behalf of so many people based on what you have read on the internet, or maybe a few dozen car stickers.

You live is a very dark little cupboard it seems.

You'd be better getting a hobby or something that spilling your tripe over the Internet every day. I'm told knitting is quite relaxing.

[xjsdriver]

Edinburger said:

Driver101 said:

McWigglebum4th said:

I can just point out one little point

YOU aren't scotland

WE the 64% who did not vote to leave the UK are scotland

so never ever assume that you speak for me

McWigglebum4th said:

You show me some non lefty idiots who want FFRREEEedededededddddooommmmmmmmm

As the evidence shown on this forum is they are exclusively lefty idiots

McWigglebum4th said:

You show me some non lefty idiots who want FFRREEEedededededddddooommmmmmmmm

As the evidence shown on this forum is they are exclusively lefty idiots

I fully agree that people shouldn't be speaking on your behalf.

However, why do you feel you are the voice for everyone else and can speak for the majority of others when your opinion in so small?

You are speaking on the behalf of millions based of your experience of "many". How many is many?

I'm guessing many is actually very, very few in the grand scheme of things.

I thought is was 55% of people who voted no. Are you just speaking on behalf of those who didn't vote and assume they would have said no? Ever consider than many people just couldn't be bothered with the vote and couldn't care less?

I've honestly never read anyone post as much ste as yourself.

I guess you think all Scottish people are ginger, wear kilts and all permanently have a bottle of Whisky in their hand?

Your opinions and facts are delusional. As I've said before, you are basing your facts on such a tiny proportion of people, then using your prejudices and stupidity to make up the rest. Then when the case is reversed, you don't like it.

Maybe you could stop speaking on behalf of so many people based on what you have read on the internet, or maybe a few dozen car stickers.

You live is a very dark little cupboard it seems.

You'd be better getting a hobby or something that spilling your tripe over the Internet every day. I'm told knitting is quite relaxing.

I think he may have taken up my suggestion and has gone to write childrens' fairy stories as a hobby.....

[McWigglebum4th]

fluffnik said:

McWigglebum4th said:

So they won't be going for a referendum next year then?

Seems very unlikely.

The next potential trigger would be if Scotland voted to stay in the EU when the UK as a whole voted to leave.

In the meantime, since we're stuck with the UK, we might as well get it modernised and working for Scotland.

So in your next referendum if one area votes to stay in the UK and the rest to leave we will stay then


Oh course not

As that is different

[McWigglebum4th]

xjsdriver said:

I think he may have taken up my suggestion and has gone to write childrens' fairy stories as a hobby.....

No i had nothing to do with the white paper

[McWigglebum4th]

xjsdriver said:

More sensationalist drivel eh Wibbles? I see some things never change. Who said anything about wanting to end your way of life? You should take up writing children's books, your sense of imagination knows no bounds. You could write about saintly St George talking up tales of derring-do with the Lion Rampant. Or perhaps tales of a wicked queen, whose son murders his princess, so he can marry a horse......

Once upon a time there was an oil rig which found the worlds largest oil field

And the evil slave master who had nothing to do with the oil rig flew up to shetland in secret and to keep it secret he ensured he was followed by loads on photographers


And then all the poor slaves on the oil rig where flown home and given loads and loads of money to spend down the pub if they promised not to tell anyone


How do you think of my first effort?


Bit to far fetched?

[xjsdriver]

McWigglebum4th said:

xjsdriver said:

I think he may have taken up my suggestion and has gone to write childrens' fairy stories as a hobby.....

No i had nothing to do with the white paper

Comprehension fail, I'm afraid - I said has gone to write - AND NOT has already written... Never mind you stick to what you're good at - I bet you're the best diesel fitter in all Aberdeenshire....

[fluffnik]

MintyScot said:

The question was....

Should Scotland be an independent country?

Happy to help.

Yet the "No" campaign were selling not merely DevoMax but Federalism by the end!

This was almost certainly a wise tactical move on their part, since various polls suggested that only ~20-30% had any emotional commitment to the Union.

(In the last census 62% identified themselves as Scottish, <20% as British)

[Welshbeef]

Edinburger said:

Seems pointless to be honest, but the relative worth of £400,000 from 1707 is:

£55,200,000.00 using the retail price index
£58,800,000.00 using the GDP deflator
£747,000,000.00 using the average earnings
£1,030,000,000.00 using the per capita GDP
£6,800,000,000.00 using the share of GDP

History didn't go from Darien > oil > today, you know.

Specifically what did Scotland contribute to rUK from Darian to oil? Fact is they were in receipt of help from rUK.

Unless you or anyone else can identify what they contributed rather than in net receipt then the case is clear 250+ years following bailout in net receipt then a period whereby oil did contribute then the last what 10 years defecit so borrowing from rUK.
SNP and Pro Yes supporters kind of like forgetting the net position is a vast prolonged investment from Westminster into Scotland and then once oil is found hey they want to leave without paying back what they had drawn... A savage perspective to take on a closest neighbour and friend.... Hmmm

[xjsdriver]

McWigglebum4th said:

Once upon a time there was an oil rig which found the worlds largest oil field

And the evil slave master who had nothing to do with the oil rig flew up to shetland in secret and to keep it secret he ensured he was followed by loads on photographers


And then all the poor slaves on the oil rig where flown home and given loads and loads of money to spend down the pub if they promised not to tell anyone


How do you think of my first effort?


Bit to far fetched?

But what about the wicked queen?....and her dastardly murdering son's equine complex? you forgot about them, one can't have a fairy story without a wicked queen, can one? however including a horse shagger would be a first......

[Edinburger]

Welshbeef said:

Edinburger said:

Seems pointless to be honest, but the relative worth of £400,000 from 1707 is:

£55,200,000.00 using the retail price index
£58,800,000.00 using the GDP deflator
£747,000,000.00 using the average earnings
£1,030,000,000.00 using the per capita GDP
£6,800,000,000.00 using the share of GDP

History didn't go from Darien > oil > today, you know.

Specifically what did Scotland contribute to rUK from Darian to oil? Fact is they were in receipt of help from rUK.

Unless you or anyone else can identify what they contributed rather than in net receipt then the case is clear 250+ years following bailout in net receipt then a period whereby oil did contribute then the last what 10 years defecit so borrowing from rUK.
SNP and Pro Yes supporters kind of like forgetting the net position is a vast prolonged investment from Westminster into Scotland and then once oil is found hey they want to leave without paying back what they had drawn... A savage perspective to take on a closest neighbour and friend.... Hmmm

Don't be so ridiculous.

You lot even mentioning the Darien Scheme is utterly ridiculous because it was i) a private venture and ii) so bloody long ago!

Scotland has contributed and shared a huge amount with the rest of the UK, as has the rest of the UK shared a huge amount with Scotland. It is pointless trying to calculate the monetary value of this. That’s petter and pointless because much of it is things like intellectual property which can’t be valued per se and because much of it is completely unknown such as tax receipts.

I think you really need to stop going on about silly things like this, you know.

[Welshbeef]

Edinburger said:

Don't be so ridiculous.

You lot even mentioning the Darien Scheme is utterly ridiculous because it was i) a private venture and ii) so bloody long ago!

Scotland has contributed and shared a huge amount with the rest of the UK, as has the rest of the UK shared a huge amount with Scotland. It is pointless trying to calculate the monetary value of this. That’s petter and pointless because much of it is things like intellectual property which can’t be valued per se and because much of it is completely unknown such as tax receipts.

I think you really need to stop going on about silly things like this, you know.

Lol you do realise UK Govt are still paying the loans taken out due to the South Sea bubble yes only 5 or so years after Darian. UKGovt took out perpetual loans - why ? After the Darian bailout it didn't have the funds to not do so and thereafter could never get Scotland to make additional contributions to clear this long term debt.

Very relevant.

[Welshbeef]

Edinburger said:

Don't be so ridiculous.

You lot even mentioning the Darien Scheme is utterly ridiculous because it was i) a private venture and ii) so bloody long ago!

Scotland has contributed and shared a huge amount with the rest of the UK, as has the rest of the UK shared a huge amount with Scotland. It is pointless trying to calculate the monetary value of this. That’s petter and pointless because much of it is things like intellectual property which can’t be valued per se and because much of it is completely unknown such as tax receipts.

I think you really need to stop going on about silly things like this, you know.

Only when the NATS stop going on about the Oil wasted money and Wastemonger and ignoring the settled will of the Scottish people.


I'd wager most never knew about Darian nor the extras Scottish population get while rUK don't. All the divisive tactics of SNP are Really vile.

[Edinburger]

Welshbeef said:

Edinburger said:

Don't be so ridiculous.

You lot even mentioning the Darien Scheme is utterly ridiculous because it was i) a private venture and ii) so bloody long ago!

Scotland has contributed and shared a huge amount with the rest of the UK, as has the rest of the UK shared a huge amount with Scotland. It is pointless trying to calculate the monetary value of this. That’s petter and pointless because much of it is things like intellectual property which can’t be valued per se and because much of it is completely unknown such as tax receipts.

I think you really need to stop going on about silly things like this, you know.

Only when the NATS stop going on about the Oil wasted money and Wastemonger and ignoring the settled will of the Scottish people.


I'd wager most never knew about Darian nor the extras Scottish population get while rUK don't. All the divisive tactics of SNP are Really vile.

That's your version of events. A hell of a lot more has happened than just Darien and oil. And there are various reasons for the differing spends per head across the UK, as you know.

[Sway]

Yes, there are.

However, speaking as an Englishman who has always felt good things about Scotland and the Scottish, the referendum campaigning did make me question things a lot.

Being told by people like Fluffnik that I'm apparently part of a mechanism that oppresses the Scottish, and by people like XJ/arp that Scottish Oil props up the rUK, makes me question things. Those questions lead to answers which prompt more questions.

I never knew or cared about the Barnett formula, or Darien. I do now. Darien wasn't just a private bailout, as I've already cited. The Barnett formula has its roots in sense, however the way its being used is not how it was intended.

The intention was to cover the additional costs brought about by a geographically spread population. The ability to provide the same levels of service as the rest of the more densely populated country. It's not being used that way, it's being used to provide pet schemes that add additional costs, and a disparity in service provision.

I can accept that.

What I cannot accept is the constant vitriol and insults, the constant whining and whinging about 'pocket money' and 'corrupt Wastemonster elite' (I even demonstrated to XJ that a topic he started, was answered to, then claimed irrelevant, and so on) as diversionary and divisive tactics to achieve a narrow minded aim.

So no, I didn't care.

I do now.

So I'll be making damn sure my vote goes to a party that serves the rUK's interests above Scotland. Any party that wants to kill the Barnett formula and raze Holyrood will get my cross. Problem is, most are pandering to the illogical bigoted fktards.

Unfortunately, that means that despite loving the place when I've worked and visited there, and making a lot of friends, I'll happily give the whiners something to whinge about. Have the same spending per capita as where I live (the South East) and fking deal with it. I do.

fk you all. Sorry, but the noisy minority have wound me up enough that fking them up is worth it, regardless of the cost.

[HarryW]

Sway said:

Yes, there are.

However, speaking as an Englishman who has always felt good things about Scotland and the Scottish, the referendum campaigning did make me question things a lot.

Being told by people like Fluffnik that I'm apparently part of a mechanism that oppresses the Scottish, and by people like XJ/arp that Scottish Oil props up the rUK, makes me question things. Those questions lead to answers which prompt more questions.

I never knew or cared about the Barnett formula, or Darien. I do now. Darien wasn't just a private bailout, as I've already cited. The Barnett formula has its roots in sense, however the way its being used is not how it was intended.

The intention was to cover the additional costs brought about by a geographically spread population. The ability to provide the same levels of service as the rest of the more densely populated country. It's not being used that way, it's being used to provide pet schemes that add additional costs, and a disparity in service provision.

I can accept that.

What I cannot accept is the constant vitriol and insults, the constant whining and whinging about 'pocket money' and 'corrupt Wastemonster elite' (I even demonstrated to XJ that a topic he started, was answered to, then claimed irrelevant, and so on) as diversionary and divisive tactics to achieve a narrow minded aim.

So no, I didn't care.

I do now.

So I'll be making damn sure my vote goes to a party that serves the rUK's interests above Scotland. Any party that wants to kill the Barnett formula and raze Holyrood will get my cross. Problem is, most are pandering to the illogical bigoted fktards.

Unfortunately, that means that despite loving the place when I've worked and visited there, and making a lot of friends, I'll happily give the whiners something to whinge about. Have the same spending per capita as where I live (the South East) and fking deal with it. I do.

fk you all. Sorry, but the noisy minority have wound me up enough that fking them up is worth it, regardless of the cost.

I think your sentiment will find a lot of favour South of the border, in fact the further you go south the more favour it might find. However, I suspect that the vitriol of the verciferous few already had that in mind too, hence you may be playing into their hands, from division they gain their aim. Just a thought.