Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 6

[Edinburger]

Welshbeef said:

Edinburger said:

Seems pointless to be honest, but the relative worth of £400,000 from 1707 is:

£55,200,000.00 using the retail price index
£58,800,000.00 using the GDP deflator
£747,000,000.00 using the average earnings
£1,030,000,000.00 using the per capita GDP
£6,800,000,000.00 using the share of GDP

History didn't go from Darien > oil > today, you know.

Specifically what did Scotland contribute to rUK from Darian to oil? Fact is they were in receipt of help from rUK.

Unless you or anyone else can identify what they contributed rather than in net receipt then the case is clear 250+ years following bailout in net receipt then a period whereby oil did contribute then the last what 10 years defecit so borrowing from rUK.
SNP and Pro Yes supporters kind of like forgetting the net position is a vast prolonged investment from Westminster into Scotland and then once oil is found hey they want to leave without paying back what they had drawn... A savage perspective to take on a closest neighbour and friend.... Hmmm

Don't be so ridiculous.

You lot even mentioning the Darien Scheme is utterly ridiculous because it was i) a private venture and ii) so bloody long ago!

Scotland has contributed and shared a huge amount with the rest of the UK, as has the rest of the UK shared a huge amount with Scotland. It is pointless trying to calculate the monetary value of this. That’s petter and pointless because much of it is things like intellectual property which can’t be valued per se and because much of it is completely unknown such as tax receipts.

I think you really need to stop going on about silly things like this, you know.

[Welshbeef]

Edinburger said:

Don't be so ridiculous.

You lot even mentioning the Darien Scheme is utterly ridiculous because it was i) a private venture and ii) so bloody long ago!

Scotland has contributed and shared a huge amount with the rest of the UK, as has the rest of the UK shared a huge amount with Scotland. It is pointless trying to calculate the monetary value of this. That’s petter and pointless because much of it is things like intellectual property which can’t be valued per se and because much of it is completely unknown such as tax receipts.

I think you really need to stop going on about silly things like this, you know.

Lol you do realise UK Govt are still paying the loans taken out due to the South Sea bubble yes only 5 or so years after Darian. UKGovt took out perpetual loans - why ? After the Darian bailout it didn't have the funds to not do so and thereafter could never get Scotland to make additional contributions to clear this long term debt.

Very relevant.

[Welshbeef]

Edinburger said:

Don't be so ridiculous.

You lot even mentioning the Darien Scheme is utterly ridiculous because it was i) a private venture and ii) so bloody long ago!

Scotland has contributed and shared a huge amount with the rest of the UK, as has the rest of the UK shared a huge amount with Scotland. It is pointless trying to calculate the monetary value of this. That’s petter and pointless because much of it is things like intellectual property which can’t be valued per se and because much of it is completely unknown such as tax receipts.

I think you really need to stop going on about silly things like this, you know.

Only when the NATS stop going on about the Oil wasted money and Wastemonger and ignoring the settled will of the Scottish people.


I'd wager most never knew about Darian nor the extras Scottish population get while rUK don't. All the divisive tactics of SNP are Really vile.

[Edinburger]

Welshbeef said:

Edinburger said:

Don't be so ridiculous.

You lot even mentioning the Darien Scheme is utterly ridiculous because it was i) a private venture and ii) so bloody long ago!

Scotland has contributed and shared a huge amount with the rest of the UK, as has the rest of the UK shared a huge amount with Scotland. It is pointless trying to calculate the monetary value of this. That’s petter and pointless because much of it is things like intellectual property which can’t be valued per se and because much of it is completely unknown such as tax receipts.

I think you really need to stop going on about silly things like this, you know.

Only when the NATS stop going on about the Oil wasted money and Wastemonger and ignoring the settled will of the Scottish people.


I'd wager most never knew about Darian nor the extras Scottish population get while rUK don't. All the divisive tactics of SNP are Really vile.

That's your version of events. A hell of a lot more has happened than just Darien and oil. And there are various reasons for the differing spends per head across the UK, as you know.

[Sway]

Yes, there are.

However, speaking as an Englishman who has always felt good things about Scotland and the Scottish, the referendum campaigning did make me question things a lot.

Being told by people like Fluffnik that I'm apparently part of a mechanism that oppresses the Scottish, and by people like XJ/arp that Scottish Oil props up the rUK, makes me question things. Those questions lead to answers which prompt more questions.

I never knew or cared about the Barnett formula, or Darien. I do now. Darien wasn't just a private bailout, as I've already cited. The Barnett formula has its roots in sense, however the way its being used is not how it was intended.

The intention was to cover the additional costs brought about by a geographically spread population. The ability to provide the same levels of service as the rest of the more densely populated country. It's not being used that way, it's being used to provide pet schemes that add additional costs, and a disparity in service provision.

I can accept that.

What I cannot accept is the constant vitriol and insults, the constant whining and whinging about 'pocket money' and 'corrupt Wastemonster elite' (I even demonstrated to XJ that a topic he started, was answered to, then claimed irrelevant, and so on) as diversionary and divisive tactics to achieve a narrow minded aim.

So no, I didn't care.

I do now.

So I'll be making damn sure my vote goes to a party that serves the rUK's interests above Scotland. Any party that wants to kill the Barnett formula and raze Holyrood will get my cross. Problem is, most are pandering to the illogical bigoted fktards.

Unfortunately, that means that despite loving the place when I've worked and visited there, and making a lot of friends, I'll happily give the whiners something to whinge about. Have the same spending per capita as where I live (the South East) and fking deal with it. I do.

fk you all. Sorry, but the noisy minority have wound me up enough that fking them up is worth it, regardless of the cost.

[HarryW]

Sway said:

Yes, there are.

However, speaking as an Englishman who has always felt good things about Scotland and the Scottish, the referendum campaigning did make me question things a lot.

Being told by people like Fluffnik that I'm apparently part of a mechanism that oppresses the Scottish, and by people like XJ/arp that Scottish Oil props up the rUK, makes me question things. Those questions lead to answers which prompt more questions.

I never knew or cared about the Barnett formula, or Darien. I do now. Darien wasn't just a private bailout, as I've already cited. The Barnett formula has its roots in sense, however the way its being used is not how it was intended.

The intention was to cover the additional costs brought about by a geographically spread population. The ability to provide the same levels of service as the rest of the more densely populated country. It's not being used that way, it's being used to provide pet schemes that add additional costs, and a disparity in service provision.

I can accept that.

What I cannot accept is the constant vitriol and insults, the constant whining and whinging about 'pocket money' and 'corrupt Wastemonster elite' (I even demonstrated to XJ that a topic he started, was answered to, then claimed irrelevant, and so on) as diversionary and divisive tactics to achieve a narrow minded aim.

So no, I didn't care.

I do now.

So I'll be making damn sure my vote goes to a party that serves the rUK's interests above Scotland. Any party that wants to kill the Barnett formula and raze Holyrood will get my cross. Problem is, most are pandering to the illogical bigoted fktards.

Unfortunately, that means that despite loving the place when I've worked and visited there, and making a lot of friends, I'll happily give the whiners something to whinge about. Have the same spending per capita as where I live (the South East) and fking deal with it. I do.

fk you all. Sorry, but the noisy minority have wound me up enough that fking them up is worth it, regardless of the cost.

I think your sentiment will find a lot of favour South of the border, in fact the further you go south the more favour it might find. However, I suspect that the vitriol of the verciferous few already had that in mind too, hence you may be playing into their hands, from division they gain their aim. Just a thought.

[xjsdriver]

Sway said:

Yes, there are.

However, speaking as an Englishman who has always felt good things about Scotland and the Scottish, the referendum campaigning did make me question things a lot.

Being told by people like Fluffnik that I'm apparently part of a mechanism that oppresses the Scottish, and by people like XJ/arp that Scottish Oil props up the rUK, makes me question things. Those questions lead to answers which prompt more questions.

I never knew or cared about the Barnett formula, or Darien. I do now. Darien wasn't just a private bailout, as I've already cited. The Barnett formula has its roots in sense, however the way its being used is not how it was intended.

The intention was to cover the additional costs brought about by a geographically spread population. The ability to provide the same levels of service as the rest of the more densely populated country. It's not being used that way, it's being used to provide pet schemes that add additional costs, and a disparity in service provision.

I can accept that.

What I cannot accept is the constant vitriol and insults, the constant whining and whinging about 'pocket money' and 'corrupt Wastemonster elite' (I even demonstrated to XJ that a topic he started, was answered to, then claimed irrelevant, and so on) as diversionary and divisive tactics to achieve a narrow minded aim.

So no, I didn't care.

I do now.

So I'll be making damn sure my vote goes to a party that serves the rUK's interests above Scotland. Any party that wants to kill the Barnett formula and raze Holyrood will get my cross. Problem is, most are pandering to the illogical bigoted fktards.

Unfortunately, that means that despite loving the place when I've worked and visited there, and making a lot of friends, I'll happily give the whiners something to whinge about. Have the same spending per capita as where I live (the South East) and fking deal with it. I do.

fk you all. Sorry, but the noisy minority have wound me up enough that fking them up is worth it, regardless of the cost.

If you get wound up by people in Scotland saying they would rather by governed from Edinburgh, rather than London, Then I'd suggest that you're more than just a bit of a tt!!!!

[xjsdriver]

HarryW said:

I think your sentiment will find a lot of favour South of the border, in fact the further you go south the more favour it might find. However, I suspect that the vitriol of the verciferous few already had that in mind too, hence you may be playing into their hands, from division they gain their aim. Just a thought.

V O C I F E R O U S ......Old chap!!! Vociferous....if you're going to use it, then use it properly, please....

I see you're from the "South" Harry, is that South East or South West - there's more than a little to suggest you're a bit of a bumpkin with all that "verciferousness". Do you admonish people to "Get Orf Moi Laaaaaarnd?" or "You be worryin' Moi sheeeeeeep?"

Edited by xjsdriver on Wednesday 4th March 20:04

[Sway]

I know.

Do you know what, I don't care.

Like most people, I love the country I was born in. Until recently, that was the United Kingdom. It's becoming England.

There is only so much name calling, abuse and whinging I can take before I just don't give a toss anymore.

A small anecdote. As I've said, I worked for a few years for a very well known Scottish business that had very publically failed. My job was to support it's rebuild into an effective business. I was both successful at it (my small part) and it imbued a sense of pride. I spent a lot of time in both Edinburgh and Glasgow, and without exception I thought I got on with everyone I worked with.

Then I went out on a team night out in Edinburgh. It didn't take long before someone I thought was actually quite a good friend (I'd worked closely with her for well over a year) told me that I (specifically me) was a vehicle for oppression, and I had blood on my hands because of my ancestors alleged involvement in the highland clearances.

Which then made me question every single relationship I had with Scottish people. How could I tell whether behind the friendly professional and social relationships i had with them were similar views? Some, I was close enough to sound out. All assured me she was an exception. I left the firm, and went onto better things. I kept in touch, mostly via facebook. A couple of those who assured me she was the exception still have 45 tags on their facebook pictures...

fk that. I don't have the same issues with any other part of the United Kingdom, so why should I put up with them from the Scottish?

[Sway]

xjsdriver said:

If you get wound up by people in Scotland saying they would rather by governed from Edinburgh, rather than London, Then I'd suggest that you're more than just a bit of a tt!!!!

Comprehension fail.

Where did I say I was worried about people wanting to be governed by Edinburgh instead of London? I didn't. What has wound me up is the reasons given for why...

[andymadmak]

xjsdriver said:

If you get wound up by people in Scotland saying they would rather by governed from Edinburgh, rather than London, Then I'd suggest that you're more than just a bit of a tt!!!!

If you are going to deliberately missinterpret his post in this way then you are the very epitome of ttishness.

[HarryW]

xjsdriver said:

HarryW said:

I think your sentiment will find a lot of favour South of the border, in fact the further you go south the more favour it might find. However, I suspect that the vitriol of the verciferous few already had that in mind too, hence you may be playing into their hands, from division they gain their aim. Just a thought.

V O C I F E R O U S ......Old chap!!! Vociferous....if you're going to use it, then use it properly, please....

I see you're from the "South" Harry, is that South East or South West - there's more than a little to suggest you're a bit of a bumpkin with all that "verciferousness". Do you admonish people to "Get Orf Moi Laaaaaarnd?" or "You be worryin' Moi sheeeeeeep?"

Edited by xjsdriver on Wednesday 4th March 20:04

Thanks for that, not sure what you edited, hopefully not your spelling whilst correcting mine.....fwiw I'm originally from London, but central South now for 30 odd years, why?
Bumpkin!! If only.......

[xjsdriver]

HarryW said:

xjsdriver said:

HarryW said:

I think your sentiment will find a lot of favour South of the border, in fact the further you go south the more favour it might find. However, I suspect that the vitriol of the verciferous few already had that in mind too, hence you may be playing into their hands, from division they gain their aim. Just a thought.

V O C I F E R O U S ......Old chap!!! Vociferous....if you're going to use it, then use it properly, please....

I see you're from the "South" Harry, is that South East or South West - there's more than a little to suggest you're a bit of a bumpkin with all that "verciferousness". Do you admonish people to "Get Orf Moi Laaaaaarnd?" or "You be worryin' Moi sheeeeeeep?"

Edited by xjsdriver on Wednesday 4th March 20:04

Thanks for that, not sure what you edited, hopefully not your spelling whilst correcting mine.....fwiw I'm originally from London, but central South now for 30 odd years, why?
Bumpkin!! If only.......

Edited to leave lighthearted comments about your "VERCIFEROUSNESS"....and alluding to a bumpkin twang that seems to have worked its way into your spelling...... as you were old boy.

[HarryW]

Must be a bit of the 'ampshire 'ogg rubbing off on me then....along with a daft ipad spolling corrector....

[xjsdriver]

HarryW said:

Must be a bit of the 'ampshire 'ogg rubbing off on me then....along with a daft ipad spolling corrector....

Arve yer gorrit set to 'Ampshire 'Ogg thern?

[Mojocvh]

xjsdriver said:

HarryW said:

xjsdriver said:

HarryW said:

I think your sentiment will find a lot of favour South of the border, in fact the further you go south the more favour it might find. However, I suspect that the vitriol of the verciferous few already had that in mind too, hence you may be playing into their hands, from division they gain their aim. Just a thought.

V O C I F E R O U S ......Old chap!!! Vociferous....if you're going to use it, then use it properly, please....

I see you're from the "South" Harry, is that South East or South West - there's more than a little to suggest you're a bit of a bumpkin with all that "verciferousness". Do you admonish people to "Get Orf Moi Laaaaaarnd?" or "You be worryin' Moi sheeeeeeep?"

Edited by xjsdriver on Wednesday 4th March 20:04

Thanks for that, not sure what you edited, hopefully not your spelling whilst correcting mine.....fwiw I'm originally from London, but central South now for 30 odd years, why?
Bumpkin!! If only.......

Edited to leave lighthearted comments about your "VERCIFEROUSNESS"....and alluding to a bumpkin twang that seems to have worked its way into your spelling...... as you were old boy.

I think "xjs's" latest contributions only highlight just what tactics the nationalist are employing.

Scorched Earth Tactics.

ps of course he only speaks for 45,000 or so....

[xjsdriver]

Mojocvh said:

I think "xjs's" latest contributions only highlight just what tactics the nationalist are employing.

Scorched Earth Tactics.

ps of course he only speaks for 45,000 or so....

And just how does a lighthearted comment about someone's "Verciferousness" even remotely equate to Scorched Earth Tactics pray tell? Please do enlighten me. I have the popcorn ready for this one - I bet it'll be a cracker. The lala-land is strong with mojo it seems

[Big Rod]

xjsdriver said:

And just how does a lighthearted comment about someone's "Verciferousness" even remotely equate to Scorched Earth Tactics pray tell? Please do enlighten me. I have the popcorn ready for this one - I bet it'll be a cracker. The lala-land is strong with mojo it seems

Because all an independent Scottish Government will have to go on is to blame everything on 'Westminster'. (Jeez, the SNP are doing it now even though they've been able to make the differences they want already!)

So, no matter what goes wrong, (even if independence is granted), it'll always be blamed on the rUK government.

That'd potentially go on for a good few hundred years I'm sure because 'true Scots' blame everything but themselves.

Right up until iScotland needs bailed out again. Then the masses would want the heads of that government jailed/hung/etc then assume the status of oppressed.

So basically, the rUK Gv't is fked if they do and fked if they don't. They'll never be able to make you lot happy.

Meanwhile there are more happy people than there are unhappy people WRT Scotland so why not just shut the fk up?

Edited by Big Rod on Thursday 5th March 00:18

[NoNeed]

xjsdriver said:

And just how does a lighthearted comment about someone's "Verciferousness" even remotely equate to Scorched Earth Tactics pray tell? Please do enlighten me. I have the popcorn ready for this one - I bet it'll be a cracker. The lala-land SNP head quarters is strong with mojo it seems

Fixed that for you.

[Elroy Blue]

I think the Naval flag is highly representative of SNP economic policies