Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 6

[Rollin]

Strocky said:

Be afraid, very afraid.......

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-31759733

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2982046/Th...

"Alex Salmond talked throughout the referendum campaign about how he and his party would spend, but far less about how Scotland would earn its living. He spoke as if Scottish ‘oil wealth’ could make it a new Saudi Arabia.

Since he wove his fairy tale, which was nonsense even then, the oil price has slumped, yet still Scots have rushed to embrace the defeated SNP. It is as if a whole people are rowing lifeboats like madmen to climb aboard the Titanic."

[TroubledSoul]

Good God, surely it's time to put this thread to bed now? It's just a bunch of nonsensical yessers still trying in vain to justify themselves while ignoring any valid points against; the biggest one of those being THE PEOPLE OF SCOTLAND DIDN'T VOTE FOR INDEPENDENCE!!

Argh! I feel better now.

[Welshbeef]

She wants another £180 billion in the next parliament, paid by the English for the benefit of the Scots — this, though her nation already receives a disproportionate share of UK public spending.





Why is this fair? £36 billion EACH year for 5 years paid for by England to go to Scotland... Um bailing out Lloyds and RBS cost about the same as one year of this yet that was dammed as those vile bankers yet now they want 5x that level of funding.



Thing is she hasn't even given an idea as to what it would mean as a return we know in 3 years time following the Tory plan we will be in surplus. This deal mean we will be £180 billion additional debt the current defecit remaining and we'd have to assume the additional £36billoon a year would simply stop in 2020 I bet it wouldn't those nasty Westminster changing the boosted Barnet formulae again.
Actually they want it £180billion but also another vote and get the Yes leave and refuse to pay back any money.


Must think rUK voters are muggs

[arp1]

The Scots ruling england? Well who's ruling scotland just now? Quite obviously they don't like it (if it ever happens I do not know) when the tables are turned... If it does happen you may well find out why there was a referendum on independence, especially when things like not wanting to be ruled by (essentially) a foreign power and those you didn't vote for....

[McWigglebum4th]

arp1 said:

The Scots ruling england? Well who's ruling scotland just now? Quite obviously they don't like it (if it ever happens I do not know) when the tables are turned... If it does happen you may well find out why there was a referendum on independence, especially when things like not wanting to be ruled by (essentially) a foreign power and those you didn't vote for....

I thought it was nothing about the english

I thought it was to create a socialist utopia like north korea

[arp1]

If the media are portraying one part of the country 'ruling' another, then what part is 'ruling' just now? Media hypocracy as usual and as we are in this rosy Union, ten what does it matter who is 'ruling' and from what part of the country?

[rovermorris999]

Blimey! Is this thread still here? I thought there was a referendum or was I dreaming?

[AstonZagato]

arp1 said:

If the media are portraying one part of the country 'ruling' another, then what part is 'ruling' just now? Media hypocracy as usual and as we are in this rosy Union, ten what does it matter who is 'ruling' and from what part of the country?

Scotland rules Scotland. There is this big ugly parliament building in Edinburgh. You might have noticed it?

Meanwhile there isn't an English parliament.

[simoid]

Scotland rules Scotland - as much as we want - with the UK running the rest. If only we could have a vote or something as Mr Rover-Morris says

[simoid]

JINXED TOUCH WOOD NO RETURNS!

[McWigglebum4th]

arp1 said:

If the media are portraying one part of the country 'ruling' another, then what part is 'ruling' just now? Media hypocracy as usual and as we are in this rosy Union, ten what does it matter who is 'ruling' and from what part of the country?

If you don't want tone ruled by another nation then can i ask for an answer to this

Why do you hate UKIP so much?

Why is being in the EU so important?

[Welshbeef]

arp1 said:

If the media are portraying one part of the country 'ruling' another, then what part is 'ruling' just now? Media hypocracy as usual and as we are in this rosy Union, ten what does it matter who is 'ruling' and from what part of the country?

You know what a really good idea would be?

I'll tell you you - you split the country into segments of c100k people these then vote for an individual to represent them that individual goes to fight for his 100k population based upon their requirements he voices concerns and views and votes with 649 other individuals all elected in the same way.

What this system does is give a fair representation of the people within a country at a national level.

Heck its a bloody good idea and will save billions of £ every year over what we currently have. Why do these Hplyrood, Welsh assembly and NI have all this money going to non value add areas instead of the poorest and needy in society.


Hmm now there's a good idea.

[arp1]

You haven't answered my question

[McWigglebum4th]

okay

we are rule by the bd english and we must rise up and gain our fzreeeddddoooommmm so we can immediately join the EU and be ruled by brussels

[arp1]

You haven't answered my question

[McWigglebum4th]

not taking the piss

We are not ruled by any part of the UK as we have what is called a democracy

all parts of the UK have equal representation via our MPS

As far as westminster is concerned scotland does not exist

[Welshbeef]

arp1 said:

You haven't answered my question

Its a democracy you are part of the UK. The biggest part generally rules the smaller especially one which came begging for a big bail out .

[Sway]

arp1 said:

You haven't answered my question

The part of the union ruling right now is mixed - a large part by the tossers in Holyrood, who I believe are all Scottish, and the rest by an unweighted ballot of representatives voting in the best interests of the 100k odd constituents they represent.

Now tell me, why should Scottish representatives than London ones?

You need to recognise, like Cornwall has, that you're a country in name only. You're not. Neither is England. You're a region, sparsely populated, and therefore your needs should have the same weight as other regional groups of similar populations.

Unfortunately, you've been appeased so you have your own parliament etc. in addition to the country's proper one. But best you learn to control these ideas above your station. Otherwise you'll really understand what happens when the majority are fked off with your whining.

[Welshbeef]

Imagine if we had 11 UK wife Holyroods ahhhh

[andymadmak]

arp1 said:

You haven't answered my question

I am not sure how relevant your question is.
Forget the media for a moment - frankly they are as bad as politicians. The point to be discussed is this nonsensical view that somehow everyone gets to get what THEY want - be that their choice of Government, their choice of social benefits, their choice of tax rate (not only for themselves but whichever group in society they feel should be made to pay for their choices)
It sounds fine in theory, indeed it almost sounds like democracy. But the truth is that its not democracy and its not workable, because you simply cannot please all the people all of the time (as the old adage goes)
We are a nation of 60 odd million people. ( I am talking the whole UK) and we each get to elect our representatives. Those representatives of like mind then get together and the group that has the biggest number of like minded members gets to make the decisions on the basis that they represent the majority opinion.
What you seem to be saying is that a large, but nevertheless minority group should still be allowed to dictate to the majority. OK, your reasoning is that the particular minority group (in this case, Scotland) is clearly defined ethnically and geographically and so should be treated as a group in its own right for the purpose of decision making.

Thats fair enough, but your argument then breaks down, because even within your Group (Scotland) you don't have a majority supporting your opinion. In general political terms less than 1 in 4 people supported your view of the world at the last general election. And at the referendum only 45% of those that voted, or 36% of those eligible to vote actually supported your position. By any measure, your opinion, whilst valid and you are fully entitled to hold it, does not represent the majority opinion in either the whole country or the minority group that you claim to represent. Moreover, a group that you claim should be completely ignored, shunned etc (the Conservatives) polled almost as many votes in Scotland in the last general election as the group that you support (SNP) Surely you can see the massive flaws in your position?

OK, so if we go on the basis of the will of the people, then the will of the people in your country is that it be a part of the UK. You don't like that and you want a smaller group to vote. Fair enough. So, how small a group of people do we break this principle down to? 100,000? 10,000? Just the people on your street?
Lets say, as a silly example, that we accept that only the opinion of the people on your street is allowed to count..... and lets say they all, 100% vote for an independent Scotland. How should the rest of the UK respond? How should the rest of Scotland respond?
Now take it further, - lets say that the people in your street vote for free everything and personal Ferraris, to be paid for by the people in the next street..... How should the people in the next street respond? (especially as they had no say in the decision making process)


In a nutshell, what I am saying is that whilst democracy is crap on so many levels, it is in fact the best system that we have available to us as it stands. Where it breaks down is when people like you are unwilling to accept the will of the majority. Whichever way you look at it, that is what is happening. Leave aside who has paid for what over the past 300 years, 200 years, 50 years or whatever...the fact is that the majority view is not aligned with your own.
Please accept that and stop damaging Scotland with your divisive, ill thought out rhetoric.
The decision of the people was "better together".

Edited by andymadmak on Friday 6th March 16:47