Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 6
Discussion
. arp1 said:
You haven't answered my question
The part of the union ruling right now is mixed - a large part by the tossers in Holyrood, who I believe are all Scottish, and the rest by an unweighted ballot of representatives voting in the best interests of the 100k odd constituents they represent.Now tell me, why should Scottish representatives than London ones?
You need to recognise, like Cornwall has, that you're a country in name only. You're not. Neither is England. You're a region, sparsely populated, and therefore your needs should have the same weight as other regional groups of similar populations.
Unfortunately, you've been appeased so you have your own parliament etc. in addition to the country's proper one. But best you learn to control these ideas above your station. Otherwise you'll really understand what happens when the majority are f
ked off with your whining.arp1 said:
You haven't answered my question
I am not sure how relevant your question is. Forget the media for a moment - frankly they are as bad as politicians. The point to be discussed is this nonsensical view that somehow everyone gets to get what THEY want - be that their choice of Government, their choice of social benefits, their choice of tax rate (not only for themselves but whichever group in society they feel should be made to pay for their choices)
It sounds fine in theory, indeed it almost sounds like democracy. But the truth is that its not democracy and its not workable, because you simply cannot please all the people all of the time (as the old adage goes)
We are a nation of 60 odd million people. ( I am talking the whole UK) and we each get to elect our representatives. Those representatives of like mind then get together and the group that has the biggest number of like minded members gets to make the decisions on the basis that they represent the majority opinion.
What you seem to be saying is that a large, but nevertheless minority group should still be allowed to dictate to the majority. OK, your reasoning is that the particular minority group (in this case, Scotland) is clearly defined ethnically and geographically and so should be treated as a group in its own right for the purpose of decision making.
Thats fair enough, but your argument then breaks down, because even within your Group (Scotland) you don't have a majority supporting your opinion. In general political terms less than 1 in 4 people supported your view of the world at the last general election. And at the referendum only 45% of those that voted, or 36% of those eligible to vote actually supported your position. By any measure, your opinion, whilst valid and you are fully entitled to hold it, does not represent the majority opinion in either the whole country or the minority group that you claim to represent. Moreover, a group that you claim should be completely ignored, shunned etc (the Conservatives) polled almost as many votes in Scotland in the last general election as the group that you support (SNP) Surely you can see the massive flaws in your position?
OK, so if we go on the basis of the will of the people, then the will of the people in your country is that it be a part of the UK. You don't like that and you want a smaller group to vote. Fair enough. So, how small a group of people do we break this principle down to? 100,000? 10,000? Just the people on your street?
Lets say, as a silly example, that we accept that only the opinion of the people on your street is allowed to count..... and lets say they all, 100% vote for an independent Scotland. How should the rest of the UK respond? How should the rest of Scotland respond?
Now take it further, - lets say that the people in your street vote for free everything and personal Ferraris, to be paid for by the people in the next street..... How should the people in the next street respond? (especially as they had no say in the decision making process)
In a nutshell, what I am saying is that whilst democracy is crap on so many levels, it is in fact the best system that we have available to us as it stands. Where it breaks down is when people like you are unwilling to accept the will of the majority. Whichever way you look at it, that is what is happening. Leave aside who has paid for what over the past 300 years, 200 years, 50 years or whatever...the fact is that the majority view is not aligned with your own.
Please accept that and stop damaging Scotland with your divisive, ill thought out rhetoric.
The decision of the people was "better together".
Edited by andymadmak on Friday 6th March 16:47
arp1 said:
Just for kicks imagine that for a second that Snp, plaid or Sinn Fein became a 'king maker' and those in England 'didn't get who we voted for'...
Well, for a start I don't think the default reaction of most people in England would be "we didn't get who we voted for" The English would likely as not accept the Government and move on.The longer term reaction of the electorate would, I suspect, depend on how the new Government went about things. If, for example, the SNP were the king maker and it used its position to leverage significant taxes, unfairness or undue hardship on England (or wales or NI) in order the feather Scotlands nest and to keep the unrealistic promises it has made to the Scottish electorate then I think you would see protests..
arp1 said:
Just for kicks imagine that for a second that Snp, plaid or Sinn Fein became a 'king maker' and those in England 'didn't get who we voted for'...
Now here you show yourself up to be nothing more than a racistNo one has a problem with the SNP because they are scottish
The problem with the SNP is the are authoritarian left wing idiots
This is why i hate them
Where as you seem to be obsessing over their nationality
It is you that is desperately trying to create a england hates the scottish situation
McWigglebum4th said:
arp1 said:
If the media are portraying one part of the country 'ruling' another, then what part is 'ruling' just now? Media hypocracy as usual and as we are in this rosy Union, ten what does it matter who is 'ruling' and from what part of the country?
If you don't want tone ruled by another nation then can i ask for an answer to thisWhy do you hate UKIP so much?
Why is being in the EU so important?
Or even an honest answer
arp1 said:
Just for kicks imagine that for a second that Snp, plaid or Sinn Fein became a 'king maker' and those in England 'didn't get who we voted for'...
Yeah and? Theres a lot of people who didn't vote Tory/libdem and they didnt get who they voted for. Theres a lot who did vote for one of those parties and don't think they got what they voted for. The greens might be king maker and i won't have voted for them either. I'm missing your point. can you be clearer please?HD Adam said:
HD Adam said:
xjsdriver said:
Not only have the 45 stuck together - we've attracted some that voted No too. It's not surprising how toxic the thought of voting Labour has become.
According to the lies, damn lies & statistics, if the SNP wins as many votes as you say, Labour will not be able to form a Government as they won't have a majority.Wee Jimmy Krankie has said that she will not enter a coalition with the Tories but would with Labour to form a majority in Westminster.
So, voting Labour is toxic, therefore vote SNP and get a Labour Govt
How does that work then?
xjsdriver said:
I've answered many, many questions many times over - sometimes having to repeat myself, like I'm having to explain to children with learning difficulties, who throw a strop if they don't like what they hear.
Could you answer this one then please?
Welshbeef said:
She wants another £180 billion in the next parliament, paid by the English for the benefit of the Scots — this, though her nation already receives a disproportionate share of UK public spending.
Why is this fair? £36 billion EACH year for 5 years paid for by England to go to Scotland... Um bailing out Lloyds and RBS cost about the same as one year of this yet that was dammed as those vile bankers yet now they want 5x that level of funding.
Thing is she hasn't even given an idea as to what it would mean as a return we know in 3 years time following the Tory plan we will be in surplus. This deal mean we will be £180 billion additional debt the current defecit remaining and we'd have to assume the additional £36billoon a year would simply stop in 2020 I bet it wouldn't those nasty Westminster changing the boosted Barnet formulae again.
Actually they want it £180billion but also another vote and get the Yes leave and refuse to pay back any money.
Must think rUK voters are muggs
Pardon?Why is this fair? £36 billion EACH year for 5 years paid for by England to go to Scotland... Um bailing out Lloyds and RBS cost about the same as one year of this yet that was dammed as those vile bankers yet now they want 5x that level of funding.
Thing is she hasn't even given an idea as to what it would mean as a return we know in 3 years time following the Tory plan we will be in surplus. This deal mean we will be £180 billion additional debt the current defecit remaining and we'd have to assume the additional £36billoon a year would simply stop in 2020 I bet it wouldn't those nasty Westminster changing the boosted Barnet formulae again.
Actually they want it £180billion but also another vote and get the Yes leave and refuse to pay back any money.
Must think rUK voters are muggs
"paid by the English"?
Really? Please explain that. Is there a pot of money raised solely by "the English"?
Think about it.
TroubledSoul said:
Good God, surely it's time to put this thread to bed now? It's just a bunch of nonsensical yessers still trying in vain to justify themselves while ignoring any valid points against; the biggest one of those being THE PEOPLE OF SCOTLAND DIDN'T VOTE FOR INDEPENDENCE!!
Argh! I feel better now.
It's also a bunch of nonsensical noers still going on about it!Argh! I feel better now.
McWigglebum4th said:
Now here you show yourself up to be nothing more than a racist
No one has a problem with the SNP because they are scottish
The problem with the SNP is the are authoritarian left wing idiots
This is why i hate them
Where as you seem to be obsessing over their nationality
It is you that is desperately trying to create a england hates the scottish situation
Jeez Wiggley. Not the R word again. No one has a problem with the SNP because they are scottish
The problem with the SNP is the are authoritarian left wing idiots
This is why i hate them
Where as you seem to be obsessing over their nationality
It is you that is desperately trying to create a england hates the scottish situation
You call lots of people "racist" yet in virtually every other post tell us how you hate socialists / communists / lefties / etc.
In your view, there is no difference.
So odd.
Edinburger said:
Welshbeef said:
She wants another £180 billion in the next parliament, paid by the English for the benefit of the Scots � this, though her nation already receives a disproportionate share of UK public spending.
Why is this fair? £36 billion EACH year for 5 years paid for by England to go to Scotland... Um bailing out Lloyds and RBS cost about the same as one year of this yet that was dammed as those vile bankers yet now they want 5x that level of funding.
Thing is she hasn't even given an idea as to what it would mean as a return we know in 3 years time following the Tory plan we will be in surplus. This deal mean we will be £180 billion additional debt the current defecit remaining and we'd have to assume the additional £36billoon a year would simply stop in 2020 I bet it wouldn't those nasty Westminster changing the boosted Barnet formulae again.
Actually they want it £180billion but also another vote and get the Yes leave and refuse to pay back any money.
Must think rUK voters are muggs
Pardon?Why is this fair? £36 billion EACH year for 5 years paid for by England to go to Scotland... Um bailing out Lloyds and RBS cost about the same as one year of this yet that was dammed as those vile bankers yet now they want 5x that level of funding.
Thing is she hasn't even given an idea as to what it would mean as a return we know in 3 years time following the Tory plan we will be in surplus. This deal mean we will be £180 billion additional debt the current defecit remaining and we'd have to assume the additional £36billoon a year would simply stop in 2020 I bet it wouldn't those nasty Westminster changing the boosted Barnet formulae again.
Actually they want it £180billion but also another vote and get the Yes leave and refuse to pay back any money.
Must think rUK voters are muggs
"paid by the English"?
Really? Please explain that. Is there a pot of money raised solely by "the English"?
Think about it.
Edinburger said:
Jeez Wiggley. Not the R word again.
You call lots of people "racist" yet in virtually every other post tell us how you hate socialists / communists / lefties / etc.
In your view, there is no difference.
So odd.
Hating people because of their views is nothing like racismYou call lots of people "racist" yet in virtually every other post tell us how you hate socialists / communists / lefties / etc.
In your view, there is no difference.
So odd.
We can all agree the Nazi party was pretty unpleasant
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff