Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 6
Discussion
The SNP have been very clever. They know they're likely to have enormous influence in the almost inevitable event of a minority government/weak coalition.
Thereby giving them all the autonomy they ever wanted for Scotland, without the punitive costs of pursuing independence.
The Scots of course know this. Hence they'll be voting SNP in their droves.
Thereby giving them all the autonomy they ever wanted for Scotland, without the punitive costs of pursuing independence.
The Scots of course know this. Hence they'll be voting SNP in their droves.
Strocky said:
Might be no need for a 2nd referendum if Scotland returns 59 SNP MP's and the Tories still manage to do a deal to stay in power
Why? Sturgeon has repeatedly told everyone that a vote for the SNP isn't a vote for independence...Was that a lie? I think you'd have a bloodbath if she tried a UDI when a significant percentage of the SNP voters apparently do not support independence.
It seems likely to me they'll continue to broaden their political ambitions. Eventually (a decade or two perhaps) they may push for another referendum but I think they realise they have to build a lot more support next time.
In the meantime you get the SNP who'll leverage their position to get what they feel is the best deal for their constituents.
In the meantime you get the SNP who'll leverage their position to get what they feel is the best deal for their constituents.
Sway said:
Why? Sturgeon has repeatedly told everyone that a vote for the SNP isn't a vote for independence...
Was that a lie? I think you'd have a bloodbath if she tried a UDI when a significant percentage of the SNP voters apparently do not support independence.
Read mobile chicane's post. Was that a lie? I think you'd have a bloodbath if she tried a UDI when a significant percentage of the SNP voters apparently do not support independence.
Worst possible outcome for the rest of the UK. It would have been significantly better all round if Salmond had won his referendum.
arp1 said:
Quite right! Let the games begin!
Games?Hmm. OK, just so long as you don't start squawking when the other team (rUK) decides to play full out. Remember, you asked for it. 60 million people will not be blackmailed. Can you hear that sound? It's the sound of companies cancelling investment plans north of the border. It's the sound of skilled jobs steadily flowing south of the border. Kiss goodbye to those The 26 contracts.
Games? Games? Scotland is gonna inherit the whirl wind.
Murph7355 said:
Read mobile chicane's post.
Worst possible outcome for the rest of the UK. It would have been significantly better all round if Salmond had won his referendum.
Starting to think you are right.This election might have been about the size of the conservative majority now its will we be in for another election in October.Worst possible outcome for the rest of the UK. It would have been significantly better all round if Salmond had won his referendum.
Strocky said:
simoid said:
Strocky said:
simoid said:
UKIP man coming across well on BBC Scotland with Jackie Bird... IN MY PERSONAL OPINION.
I can see why he resonates with your good selfhttp://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/ukip-...
B) I wasn't talking about the person in your article - UKIP's MEP was on Reporting Scotland.
johnxjsc1985 said:
Murph7355 said:
Read mobile chicane's post.
Worst possible outcome for the rest of the UK. It would have been significantly better all round if Salmond had won his referendum.
Starting to think you are right.This election might have been about the size of the conservative majority now its will we be in for another election in October.Worst possible outcome for the rest of the UK. It would have been significantly better all round if Salmond had won his referendum.
simoid said:
Is it better for the UK to supervise Scotland and put up with the incessant moaning, or allow them total independence to be a failed nation on your doorstep?
Thats a tough one.For me personally im now not much of a unionist as the general feeling appears that Scots want independence from the rUK and im not talking about just the referendum result.
Even wiggles openly admits that he wants independence just not the flavor the SNP offer and I believe that feeling to be in the majority even if by a slim margin.
38% of the total population voted for independence, of that 45% voted yes and im of the view (nothing to back this up mind) that had those that want independence but voted no (like wiggles) then the SNP would have been successful.
If the Scots feel that strongly then who are we to stand in there way; i will however expect my government to act in a way that best suits the interests of the rUK if the split happens though. Thats not sour grapes but simple economics as i dont feel that i should pay one penny for Scottish independence.
I see where you're coming from. Not wishing to argue, more just explore the view that Scotland wants independence: although Wiggley would vote for independence if it wasn't the SNP vision, equally many people may have voted yes because of the SNP vision, so perhaps these cancel each other out.
The only empirical measure we have as to whether Scotland's population is the vote: "should Scotland be an independent country?" which was a "no". For every 10 people who wanted independence, there were a dozen who got off their arses and checked a box to say they wanted to remain in the UK. Presumably forever, as otherwise they would've voted yes.
I think that everyone who says "the Scots want to be independent" is simply fuelling the SNP fire, which they stoke themselves and hope will become a perpetual vote winner for them: vote SNP because we might get another referendum and independence.
It disappoints me that the Scottish population were asked what they wanted, they spoke resoundingly, and it appears not to matter a hoot.
Again - not meaning to be directly confrontational and I totally understand where you're coming from. I don't know if I'm right (or wrong on account of wishful thinking), but I think the UK would be a better place if we ALL just agreed that Scotland will never be independent and got on with it.
Neverendum indeedum.
PS I'd love a 5 minute interview with an SNP leader over the prospect of future independence in my lifetime.
The only empirical measure we have as to whether Scotland's population is the vote: "should Scotland be an independent country?" which was a "no". For every 10 people who wanted independence, there were a dozen who got off their arses and checked a box to say they wanted to remain in the UK. Presumably forever, as otherwise they would've voted yes.
I think that everyone who says "the Scots want to be independent" is simply fuelling the SNP fire, which they stoke themselves and hope will become a perpetual vote winner for them: vote SNP because we might get another referendum and independence.
It disappoints me that the Scottish population were asked what they wanted, they spoke resoundingly, and it appears not to matter a hoot.
Again - not meaning to be directly confrontational and I totally understand where you're coming from. I don't know if I'm right (or wrong on account of wishful thinking), but I think the UK would be a better place if we ALL just agreed that Scotland will never be independent and got on with it.
Neverendum indeedum.
PS I'd love a 5 minute interview with an SNP leader over the prospect of future independence in my lifetime.
Edited by simoid on Thursday 30th April 11:01
simoid said:
I see where you're coming from. Not wishing to argue, more just explore the view that Scotland wants independence: although Wiggley would vote for independence if it wasn't the SNP vision, equally many people may have voted yes because of the SNP vision, so perhaps these cancel each other out.
That thought hadn't even crossed my mind TBH.Would our resident nats have voted yes to a Scottish Tory plan for independence based on a low tax and low government interference basis?
My gut feeling is yes they would as the core issue remains; that being independence whereas political parties come and go.
I suppose that's a bit like wondering if my Auntie had testes. Too many variables to even consider. If Scotland was a Tory heartland, as was the UK, then this thread might not even exist 
To look it another way: the spectre of the independence voted for by 2.5% of the UK undermines the very foundations of anything that we try to do. We can't even have a general election without it cropping up all over the place. Instead of it being an elephant in every room or a fly in every ointment... I wish it could just disappear.
Perhaps like, I don't know, we had just rejected a "once in a lifetime opportunity"
To look it another way: the spectre of the independence voted for by 2.5% of the UK undermines the very foundations of anything that we try to do. We can't even have a general election without it cropping up all over the place. Instead of it being an elephant in every room or a fly in every ointment... I wish it could just disappear.
Perhaps like, I don't know, we had just rejected a "once in a lifetime opportunity"
barryrs said:
38% of the total population voted for independence, of that 45% voted yes and im of the view (nothing to back this up mind) that had those that want independence but voted no (like wiggles) then the SNP would have been successful.
Slight correction. If you're talking about the entire population it is 30% voted for independence. Out of all the people eligible to vote only 37.7% voted yes.I'm a Scot living in Scotland and I'm just as sick of it all. Its been quite a drain on the mind as this political drivel has been constant since the start of the referendum and with the upcoming UK elections it just hasn't stopped.
Unfortunately we can expect this until atleast the Scottish elections in 2016. Fortunately for people south of the border you wont have to put up with quite as much as us during the Scottish election campaign.
The problem is its still the vocal minority who just keep shouting as loud as they can while the majority of the rest of us just wish they would shut the hell up. It started off quite amusing in the fact it was 99.9% nonsense but its just plain tiresome now.
MintyScot said:
Slight correction. If you're talking about the entire population it is 30% voted for independence. Out of all the people eligible to vote only 37.7% voted yes.
I'm a Scot living in Scotland and I'm just as sick of it all. Its been quite a drain on the mind as this political drivel has been constant since the start of the referendum and with the upcoming UK elections it just hasn't stopped.
Unfortunately we can expect this until atleast the Scottish elections in 2016. Fortunately for people south of the border you wont have to put up with quite as much as us during the Scottish election campaign.
The problem is its still the vocal minority who just keep shouting as loud as they can while the majority of the rest of us just wish they would shut the hell up. It started off quite amusing in the fact it was 99.9% nonsense but its just plain tiresome now.
Well said. you guys south of the border need to know, most Scots are sick & tired of this independence debate. We had a vote, the results are in, you lost, put it to bed........ I'm a Scot living in Scotland and I'm just as sick of it all. Its been quite a drain on the mind as this political drivel has been constant since the start of the referendum and with the upcoming UK elections it just hasn't stopped.
Unfortunately we can expect this until atleast the Scottish elections in 2016. Fortunately for people south of the border you wont have to put up with quite as much as us during the Scottish election campaign.
The problem is its still the vocal minority who just keep shouting as loud as they can while the majority of the rest of us just wish they would shut the hell up. It started off quite amusing in the fact it was 99.9% nonsense but its just plain tiresome now.
jonny996 said:
MintyScot said:
Slight correction. If you're talking about the entire population it is 30% voted for independence. Out of all the people eligible to vote only 37.7% voted yes.
I'm a Scot living in Scotland and I'm just as sick of it all. Its been quite a drain on the mind as this political drivel has been constant since the start of the referendum and with the upcoming UK elections it just hasn't stopped.
Unfortunately we can expect this until atleast the Scottish elections in 2016. Fortunately for people south of the border you wont have to put up with quite as much as us during the Scottish election campaign.
The problem is its still the vocal minority who just keep shouting as loud as they can while the majority of the rest of us just wish they would shut the hell up. It started off quite amusing in the fact it was 99.9% nonsense but its just plain tiresome now.
Well said. you guys south of the border need to know, most Scots are sick & tired of this independence debate. We had a vote, the results are in, you lost, put it to bed........ I'm a Scot living in Scotland and I'm just as sick of it all. Its been quite a drain on the mind as this political drivel has been constant since the start of the referendum and with the upcoming UK elections it just hasn't stopped.
Unfortunately we can expect this until atleast the Scottish elections in 2016. Fortunately for people south of the border you wont have to put up with quite as much as us during the Scottish election campaign.
The problem is its still the vocal minority who just keep shouting as loud as they can while the majority of the rest of us just wish they would shut the hell up. It started off quite amusing in the fact it was 99.9% nonsense but its just plain tiresome now.
Plus my wife, almost all of our families and around 24 of the 28 people in my office.
New indy ref likely next year:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/SNP/11563...
"Once in a generation.." my arse...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/SNP/11563...
"Once in a generation.." my arse...
"However the SNP leader repeatedly refused to rule out putting a second referendum in next year’s manifesto for Scottish elections, saying it was up to the electorate.
Ms Sturgeon also indicated the SNP could pledge support in principle for another independence vote but the timing of a referendum would be up to the voters."
Wtf? How can the electorate decide what goes into the SNP's manifesto?
Ms Sturgeon also indicated the SNP could pledge support in principle for another independence vote but the timing of a referendum would be up to the voters."
Wtf? How can the electorate decide what goes into the SNP's manifesto?
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