Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 6
Discussion
johnxjsc1985 said:
///ajd said:
Funny, the history doesn't mention their interesting antics & policies in the 1940s.
Good to see Milliband say "F off" to the SNP tonight. I trust he means it.
you missed the rear shot of him with his fingers crossed as he said it so it doesnt countGood to see Milliband say "F off" to the SNP tonight. I trust he means it.
And that I guarantee is what Miliband will say.
Edinburger said:
She just said "Even if the SNP win every seat in Scotland next week - that us not a mandate for another referendum".
If she holds her line in her conference, and subsequent manifesto for the 2016 Holyrood elections then I will accept she is a woman of principle. OTOH with Sillars on maneuvers I fully expect to see referendum back on the cards next year, not least because I suspect that the huge figures the SNP are polling are unsustainable without some red meat.Northern Munkee said:
johnxjsc1985 said:
///ajd said:
Funny, the history doesn't mention their interesting antics & policies in the 1940s.
Good to see Milliband say "F off" to the SNP tonight. I trust he means it.
you missed the rear shot of him with his fingers crossed as he said it so it doesnt countGood to see Milliband say "F off" to the SNP tonight. I trust he means it.
And that I guarantee is what Miliband will say.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/apr/...
If you think about it - how will they make labour borrow €180Bn? Threaten to side with the Tories if they don't get their way? That'll work.
Threaten Labour that they will side with the Tories on trident if Labour won't cancel it. Can you see the flaw yet?
They could try and stop any westminster government doing anything. That'll come across well! This could their downfall with some luck, and Scots will see the pointlessness of electing a divisive shouty aggressive 'we can't actually work with anyone' muppet show.
///ajd said:
Funny, the history doesn't mention their interesting antics & policies in the 1940s.
Good to see Milliband say "F off" to the SNP tonight. I trust he means it.
I'm totally against labour and always will be but I'm taking him on his word and I really respect that - I'd hope Cameron would do exactly the same in similar situation
Previously I though him a worthless toe rag - on this statement alone he got my attention good for you Ed. that's the hard choice putting the greater good ahead of oneself.
Clegg too great to se him battling his own voter stating he would look to try to form a coalition of it were needed with the largest seat party as that is the settled will of the country. Like it or not that's what we as voters have said to our parliment.
Good to see Milliband say "F off" to the SNP tonight. I trust he means it.
I'm totally against labour and always will be but I'm taking him on his word and I really respect that - I'd hope Cameron would do exactly the same in similar situation
Previously I though him a worthless toe rag - on this statement alone he got my attention good for you Ed. that's the hard choice putting the greater good ahead of oneself.
Clegg too great to se him battling his own voter stating he would look to try to form a coalition of it were needed with the largest seat party as that is the settled will of the country. Like it or not that's what we as voters have said to our parliment.
Edinburger said:
simoid said:
Passed Michael Connarty campaigning earlier on (a local Labour MP). Gave him a friendly "toot toot" so I've done my bit - where he was he's probably been getting abuse all day from SNPists 
I thought you lived in Edinburgh? He's Falkirk or thereabouts?fluffnik said:
The SNP are now the majority, they've been polling consistently over 50% for the last week or so and are set to take all 59 seats. 
I have a suspicion that the polling isn't a genuine reflection of voting intentions across the populous as a whole for a couple of reasons;1) In the current climate, Nat voters are highly motivated and believe they're champions of social justice. They'd sit next to the phone for a week without going to the toilet if it gave them the opportunity to help 'shape' the opinion polls. As happened in 1992 with Major, I don't think those opposed to the SNP are quite so keen to publicise their opposition.
2) The less wealthy and well-educated you are, the more likely you are to vote SNP. These people are the least likely to vote, so polling that favours the SNP may not be replicated in the ballot.
As an aside, I'm amazed that nobody seems to be questioning the claim that having one political party holding all the seats is a great victory. It's not; it is a catastrophe for democracy and holding politicians to account. The Nats have spent years having a hissy about being disadvantaged by FPTP and demanding it be reviewed because it is 'undemocratic'. Now they've got the opportunity to gain control they're not complaining about the system, any more than they complained about winning a comfortable majority of seats at Holyrood despite not winning an overall majority at the ballot box.
F*ck me, is this thread still going.....?
Looks like it'll still be here for the next referendum the way things seem to be happening in Sturgeon's head at the moment. She's dizzy with the recent poll findings at the moment, and is clearly gagging to be Queen of Scots as soon as she can.
I think she'll find though, that not every SNP voter actually wants independance. They're voting SNP to try and totally eliminate any possibility that the two Eds get in at Westminster.
Looks like it'll still be here for the next referendum the way things seem to be happening in Sturgeon's head at the moment. She's dizzy with the recent poll findings at the moment, and is clearly gagging to be Queen of Scots as soon as she can.
I think she'll find though, that not every SNP voter actually wants independance. They're voting SNP to try and totally eliminate any possibility that the two Eds get in at Westminster.
technodup said:
o what I'll likely do. Vote Labour to keep the SNP out your seat. The fewer seats the SNP win lessens the amount of noise they can make (although they'll still make plenty).
We're getting the choice of Labour or SNP and Labour. Much as I despise Labour and Miliband I despise the SNP more.
That's the approach I've just taken after much deliberation. How many others of the " '55 " are doing so I'm not sure. It could well make a difference in my constituency.We're getting the choice of Labour or SNP and Labour. Much as I despise Labour and Miliband I despise the SNP more.
Every election in Scotland is going to feel like a referendum from now on until the SNP cock up spectacularly and/or a major external factor changes the balance of opinion. The oil price crash doesn't seem to have had much effect in that respect, and it's therefore difficult to see what would.
For shrewd operators such as the SNP, economic cock ups can be masked for some considerable time. Westminster governments can't get away with blaming anyone else for their mistakes (even the EU or world economy) as we can change them every 5 to 10 years and they "have history".
The beauty of promising something new to what the polls indicate is a disillusioned populace is that you don't have to prove yourself.
Edited by s2kjock on Friday 1st May 08:12
Mojocvh said:
Edinburger said:
She just said "Even if the SNP win every seat in Scotland next week - that us not a mandate for another referendum".
And the theme that is most consistent is....Politicians LIE.
The Nats have to get rid of Westminster politicians because THEY lie.
No Scottish politician would lie about, say, having got legal advice on EU membership and it turns out they didn't. Nor would they say a referendum was "once in a lifetime" and then suggest putting it in the 2016 manifesto. Nor say that they would start an oil fund from tax revenues that they are already spending (and more). No, no, no. That would not happen in Scotland.
And if Scottish politicians were to tell such bare-faced lies, then the Scottish electorate would surely punish them in the polls. Because they HATE the lies that politicians tell far more than the rest of the UK. They must have fairness.
Edited by AstonZagato on Friday 1st May 09:11
///ajd said:
They could try and stop any westminster government doing anything. That'll come across well! This could their downfall with some luck, and Scots will see the pointlessness of electing a divisive shouty aggressive 'we can't actually work with anyone' muppet show.
Belgium went almost two years ago without a government. I seem to remember it did ok without the muppets trying to do stuff (that's the worst aspect of politicians of all stripes - they try to do stuff. Most of it is pointless and the changes are either harmful or a best delay improvement. Just get out of the way and let people get on without interfering (just create a sensible legal framework).)Edinburger said:
fluffnik said:
The SNP are now the majority, they've been polling consistently over 50% for the last week or so and are set to take all 59 seats.
If the SNP do get ~50% of the vote and they do take all of the seats, it shows that there's something fundamentally wrong with the electoral system in this country.I'd actually gain some respect for them if they don't and you do have to admire the fact that Sturgeon actually seems to be real even if her politics are unreal. Clegg, Milliband and Cameron don't connect with real people.
simoid said:
Garvin said:
If that majority get off their arses and vote then the SNP will not achieve the number of seats anywhere near the current predictions and relative calm will once again descend upon Scotland. It is, therefore, down to the Scottish people and it matters not what the majority want, they will still be culpable due to their apathy if they don't turn out on 7th May!
SNP could easily win all the seats even if all the no voters and more vote against them, eg:SNP 40%
Labour 30%
Tories 15%
Libdem 15%
or whatever in every seat.
AstonZagato said:
Except Scottish ones.
The Nats have to get rid of Westminster politicians because THEY lie.
No Scottish politician would lie about, say, having got legal advice on EU membership and it turns out they didn't. Nor would they say a referendum was "once in a lifetime" and then suggest putting it in the 2016 manifesto. Nor say that they would start an oil fund from tax revenues that they are already spending (and more). No, no, no. That would not happen in Scotland.
And if Scottish politicians were to tell such bare-faced lies, then the Scottish electorate would surely punish them in the polls. Because they HATE the lies that politicians tell far more than the rest of the UK. They must have fairness.
How do you know if a politician is telling porkies ...."their lips are moving".The Nats have to get rid of Westminster politicians because THEY lie.
No Scottish politician would lie about, say, having got legal advice on EU membership and it turns out they didn't. Nor would they say a referendum was "once in a lifetime" and then suggest putting it in the 2016 manifesto. Nor say that they would start an oil fund from tax revenues that they are already spending (and more). No, no, no. That would not happen in Scotland.
And if Scottish politicians were to tell such bare-faced lies, then the Scottish electorate would surely punish them in the polls. Because they HATE the lies that politicians tell far more than the rest of the UK. They must have fairness.
Edited by AstonZagato on Friday 1st May 09:11
Edinburger said:
She just said "Even if the SNP win every seat in Scotland next week - that us not a mandate for another referendum".
Sturgeon speaks only about a referendum, not about striving for independence. Let's suppose that the SNP take all the Scottish seats and then let's suppose they take a thumping majority of the seats at Holyrood next year. They may make moves to the effect that they now have a mandate and don't need a referendum and, if they do hold the 'balance of power' at Westminster they could just try and negotiate independence with a weak Milliband without the need for a referendum. They can try it - they've got nothing to lose in those circumstances.Garvin said:
if they do hold the 'balance of power' at Westminster they could just try and negotiate independence with a weak Milliband without the need for a referendum. They can try it - they've got nothing to lose in those circumstances.
Even they wouldn't be so stupid. There's be riots, and I'd be right at the front.Edinburger said:
So there's two recent claims on this thread blown!
Good questions being asked.
It's not credible though when senior party people are saying the exact opposite. I'm not convinced that she's being honest - it'd be simple to make an excuse for reintroducing it. Primarily if SNP membership vote it in to their manifesto. Or blame it on reneged deals in the evil UK government.Good questions being asked.
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